Also, bards are not meant to be a "support" class.

Support is supposed to be one of their strongest aspects...

Oh ok. You better let Estarra know ASAP

(p.s. why are you an envoy)

(p.p.s what should bards be)

Deafness seriously shouldn't block our songs. It makes sense, but it's stupid in practice. Either deafness is easy to strip from a group, and thus worthless, or it's not, in which case the bard is pretty crippled. Add to that the fact that your allies get to pick between staying deaf to counter enemy bards, or hearing your buffs and being open to enemy attack, and it's just silly.

I love you people, seriously. Arrogance and ignorance mixed together makes for quite a few laughs.

When I was the only bard envoy, I asked Estarra point blank if we were supposed to be mainly support and she told me not to classify bards like that, that they were supposed to be balanced just like anyone else in terms of solo and group combat. Hence, not a class that is only supposed to be good while supporting, but a class that is able to support. Which dismisses the whole concept of them being allowed to suck in solo combat.

Maybe there should be some skills that allows you to always be able to sing to your allies or something. Or maybe...

Trans skill! Or artie...
Truesong
Your songs will always be heard, even if the target is deaf.

Then whats the point of deafness if people can hear you? that totaly removes the defence completly, I might be open to that being an arti or something, but makeing it into the skillset just doesnt make sense at all.

We are told , time and time again, that deafness is an affliction not a defense.

How exactly does deafness harm you -really-? I mean its not on the top of my priority list if im afflicted with it, and sence the bards came out people have made it into a defence.

Gameplay > Reality.

Bards and deafness don't mix. Fix one or the other.

Then Estarra needs to figure out what he wants to do with the class, because we've been told it's a support class.

And I'm gonna stick with my "why are you an envoy" ever since you posted that Wildarrane is the best bard skillset

A lot of discussion has occurred between the envoys on how exactly deafness should interact with bardic music. The suggestion that songs simply go through deafness has been made and collectively rejected.

Currently, two suggestions that are up for debate involve a change to the tetrodin poison (to change it from complete immunity to bards to something less powerful) and a differentiation between targetted music abilities and passive song effects in terms of whether they can be blocked by deafness.

If you have a different solution, get in contact with your envoy!

Wildarrane is the best bard skillset.
Starhymn does have some nice skills, but the real power of Cantors is hyperactive + tarot.

Yini used some Wildarrane on me when I attacked her; I didn't have triggers for it and didn't even put up deafness and I just kinda laughed at it because it really sucked. I then died to the instakill because I'd never seen the messages before and didn't know that's what it was, but now that I have the messages I will never die to it again.

Dear god, do not use this chart. As a general rule of thumb, do not rely on someone who has very little combat, bashing, or otherwise experience to tell you how different classes fare.

Moondancers, for example, are listed as having less defence than a Geomancer. Moondancers not only receive substantially more buffs to all damage types than geomancer or aquamancers, they have access to alchemy and thus the philosopher stone (which gives a rather nice sipping bonus). Moondancers also have passive health/mana restoring Fae that stack on top of regenerations (so you can technically exceed level 3 regeneration).

Moondancers and Shadowdancers also have some of the strongest initial offense of any class when they take Hexes. I was able to kill top notch elite combatants like Ixion, Daevos, Murphy, etc. on occasions where I could kill them before they hit me. Moondancers also have no mobility restrictions since the change to hexaura so I don't see how any other class ranks higher.

Not that this unsubstantiated vitriol is unexpected coming from you, but why do I have little bashing 'or otherwise' experience?

As a general rule, when Narsrim wishes to disagree with something, he prefers not to politely voice amendments but rather to flame as aggressively (and I might add impolitely) as he can.

This may* be for a variety of reasons:

Exhibit 1:



Unable to separate real life from in-character antagonism, Narsrim takes the view that politeness has no place in our society. Thus, he holds the belief that "there is some expectation that players will defend themselves", and "it is not the administration's job" to prevent forum flaming. Helpfully, he observes that "If you don't wish to defend yourself or cannot, then you should not put yourself in a situation where this will happen" - in other words, if you wish to avoid being flamed by Narsrim than you can take two steps.

Firstly: Never disagree with him
Secondly: Never post

Exhibit 2:

Narsrim has often commented on his capacity to be bitchy, observing once that despite two years reading this forum, "Aiakon you have never seen how bitchy I can be". The word bitchy (whether rightly or wrongly) implies feminine attributes - it is, after all, derived from the word for a female dog - a bitch. Implicit in many discussions with Narsrim has been the suggestion that his 'bitchiness' goes hand in hand with his homosexuality. It is my suggestion that the continuation of such flaming is part of Narsrim's internet efforts to find a mate.

Exhibit 3:

Or perhaps he just has quite a small willy.


*Disclaimer: None of the suggestions above have been presented as fact, merely as jovial theories. Thus I cannot be accused of any sort of personal attack, as I have never definitively evangelised any of my proposals.

It would have to be mutual allies. And given that, I don't see why it should have to be a special skill or artifact. The only way to get mutual ally is either to genuinely be an ally (and why shouldn't allies be able to benefit from buff songs? as Sylphas points out, there's no point in them existing otherwise), or if you do something like lust, which is at least as hard as stripping deafness.

I've never been bored reading a thread that Narsrim and Aiakon have both posted in. You have yet to disappoint me. Keep up the good work!

We agree on all points. The chart is horrible, ignore it entirely. There are so many ins and outs of each class that making a chart like that is not only impractical, but always wrong. Each combat situation tends to carry unique aspects where some classes excel where others who normall do, do not. Also as he said, wiccans have the unique ability to, with some measure or timing and a bit of luck or even a rather simple mistake on the opponent's part, to ensure a kill without the opponent being able to attack once.

To Narsrim: In hindsight, I wish you were a wiccan sometimes so I could try a couple really nifty wounding tricks out.

Edit: Typo.