Hailstorm, meet Boulderblast. Same thing.

Staff, meet staff. Woah. Same thing.

As for the rest of it - there are a few changes I'd make. Currents should be blocked by protection scroll and hit a whole group at once. There also should not be a way for currents or whirlpool to affect people outside the demesne. That's buggy.

Oh, sorry, I can go comment on the rest if you'd like, but before that, you do realize that pathtwist only works if they try to LEAVE your demesne, right? It only works on the fringes, so why would you use it when they are already deep inside? I'm talking about the current version, not the recommended upgrade.


Can't you just use d;trample? As opposed to us, who have to use d;whistle (wait for balance) mount stag (wait for balance) trample? That's what I was referring to as a minor benefit. Again, minor.


Again, as I said, I'm not familiar with the un-mirrored skills, which is why I was primarily addressing the druidry differences. I'm not convinced Stagstomp really changes Sap all THAT much against a good curer. Unless another effect is there to sprawl someone (which only dreamweavers can do and only by putting the target to sleep), the broken legs are ignorable. The only thing that has to be done to cure stagstomp is concentrate, which is certainly not worthless, but most good curers have no issue with it at all. The times it is wonderful is against people who aren't good curers, and when I do it to someone who is blacked out, or if I get very lucky and my demesne hits with confusion (33% chance every 10 seconds).

The balancing factor is, of course, that your demesne effects deal blacklung and chills passively, which are nice for keeping sap stuck. Again, this is getting back to


Darkseed adds power to sap? Please excuse me if I don't believe you. Darkseed lasts 25 seconds. Sap costs 5p. Darkseed costs 8p. I don't regen 3p in 25 seconds. If I wanted to use them together, I'd also have to forego Stagstomping, and though your saplocking afflicts don't cost power, stagstomp does.

Darkseed does synergize with Thornlash though, as I can stack writhe cures with it when going for a bleed kill.

Scarab stacks just as well with Swoop when going for a mana bleed kill, does it not?


Comparing the full facepaints to the full facepaints, you can get 25% limb break shrugging and 33% entanglement shrugging, correct? Versus a speed bonus that comes along with it a speed penalty. Do not say the penalty is ignorable, because it isn't. Sure, there are only a few skills that I use that do consume balance - shove, bellow, and gore, but falling from the trees uses balance too, as does writhing and epilepsy. Falling from the trees takes 4s to recover from normally, and 4.6s to recover from with Lightning up. For reference, point cudgel takes 4.1s to recover from normally, and 3.75s to recover from with Lightning up.

This bonus is certainly not insignificant - a 7-10% bonus to speed is always nice. However, it takes about 3s to writhe free, doesn't it? If your foe is using entanglements and you burn just one to ash every minute, your speed bonus is at least half of mine in the long run, when you factor in my penalties as well.



I agree. Stag does have some nice defensive moves. I consider Stagtotem too expensive for a solo fight, since your foe can just take you out of the room or refuse to enter it and force you to leave to fight. It IS good though in group battles, and when defending a place.

Stag is better for defence, Crow is better for spying, right? Birdseye and Spy seem really nice. Crow, at the moment, has an arguably better offense with spiders/murder over squirrels/stagstomp.

As a side note, how good is trickster for sticking a saplock? Useful at all? I'm not sure what you can give with it, but you can give crotamine at least, and is love poison lust, or the love potion effect? Dunno, it just seems like trickster shouldn't be worthless. Maybe the cooking venoms could be improved?


Do you think forcing someone to tumble once is worth 5p? Sure, if the change I requested goes through, it will be worth it, but at the moment, the person would only have to tumble once. And only if they were raiding Serenwilde or the Etherwilde or some other place I could teleport them into guards or friends, otherwise it just takes them to the center of my demesne. Umm, yay?


Comparing Sacrifice to DarkRebirth again, they both have *amazing* utility, and DarkRebirth is useful in any fight, and Sacrifice is very nice in a group fight if used carefully, though it does nothing in a solo fight (except give you a more flashy heartstop). I really do think they are balanced though, so no complaints there.


Swoop has nice synergy with Thornlash, Gore ALMOST has nice synergy with Sap, since if you impale someone who is sapped, they're pretty screwed. Last time I did that though, the :censored: Truehealed out of it



I think upgrades to Squirrels, Pathtwist, Gore, Trickster (or Cooking), maybe Eyepeck (I don't know enough about what it does), and maybe Disease (Again, don't know enough about what it does) would go a long way to helping what I see as the discrepencies in the classes.

In terms of aquas v geos, the main problem is currents... Why?
needlerain+water=rubble
You say swimming is stopped by waterwalk, I say, rubble hits allies, so as a result they are EQUAL.

currents!=any geo skill, it's an EXTRA skill, since forced swimming is a hidden passive effect of aqua demesnes.

Therefore, currents should be removed, seeing as it is an extra passive effect that imbalances the two demesnes.

What is currents anyway? My stupid side is showing (Gandal's an aquamancer )

Though the damagetypes are different, and that shows. Revan, with 17 int, does 1.1k damage to me, with the champstaff up. For comparison, your hailstorm does 1.4k damage.


And I sure hope you weren't the one that envoyed tumble to cost 1000 endurance. If so, I want a skill for warriors that costs the target 1000 endurance to move away from me.

In Forren's defense, he is running around with every damage boosting karma blessing available.

The damage for boulderblast and hailstorm should be the same if used by a person with the same stats and such, minus any resistance differences between the targets. It is a known fact that the staff attacks do not give the same damage (nod going to Aquas), but then again the demesnes do not give the same damage either (nod going to Geos).

A good while back, a suggestion for TrueHeal was made that would give a temporary peace state (2-seconds or so) to the person using it. That way the person could still perform passive actions like running, but could not combo the ability to create overpowered or cheap attacks.

That works.... or it could just not be used off balance

How about it can be used off balance/eq, but not give it back? That way it would keep the defending/healing as intended, and remove the offensive possibilities.

As a player, I don't like that fix because it doesn't stop people from truehealing out of a complete saplock like the other suggestion did I really hate it when people trueheal out of a really good saplock that took me a ton of power and motes and time and luck to obtain

Geo staff is 50% poison. Aqua staff is 50% cold.

People have a few resistances to cold - regular proofings for 10%, splendour proofings for 20%, and fire potion for 10% I believe. Not even sure if poison resistance goes that high.

Ashteru - keep in mind my demesne (and me) strip fire potion defense. Also, I am a 20 int merian running around with a war blessing - that's 15%ish more damage than Revan plus another 10% from war blessing (I think).

So essentially you are saying that you do not like people using TrueHeal for its intended purpose?

Bah, I would rather have a lich equivalent called Archon of Light. During the day we get the bonuses and at night the penalties. Instead of the cold touch, make it so that the heretic state lasts for 1 full minute (though the actual lighting up periods remain the same). All the rest being identical to lich.

I'd take a lich clone over trueheal any day.

As a player, heck no, not mean it means I can never kill a Paladin As an envoy though, yeah, that solution would stop it from being an offensive skill. However, I still think Trueheal is a bit stronger than it should be.

And the thing is, if it did require bal/eq to use and nothing more, that isn't a massive restriction on it. You could still trueheal out of a saplock, but there are things the druid could do to try to stop you or at least slow you down, via epilepsy/daydreams/blacklung/stagstomp.

I'm really not convinced it would horribly underpower trueheal if you needed bal/eq to use it.

By this philosophy, doesn't bedevil deserve a look too?

I don't know if you were around in the beginning, but the reason given for why it can be used off-balance is that it was suppose to be able to heal conditions caused by equilibrium disruption or extended balance loss. Therefore, it was created for exactly those situations that you feel it should not be used for. I personally do not care if TrueHeal required balance and equilibrium to use; what I am pointing out though is that the skill was designed to work the way it does concerning its healing aspect. Working the way it works now, I do not see it overpowered beyond the ability to create abnormal attack combinations.

Also, I wish people would stop using extreme descriptions to support or debunck an argument. Horribly underpowered is not a defense used by anyone to support the TrueHeal skill. I have not seen anyone try to state that changing it to require balance and equilibrium would under power the skill at all. What I have noticed is that those who do support TrueHeal point out that it costs 10-power to use, and so a person has to forgo using any other power abilities if he/she desires to be able to use it in a pinch. So I think it would be better to argue the point of why the required 10-power cost is not enough to justify all that TrueHeal does.

I personally would like a skill at transcendent Sacraments that had a precost of 10-power, and gave a defense that went into effect under a certain condition. That way I could pay the price up front, and go into battle using my power as I see fit. I feel the 10-power cost of TrueHeal would be a bit restrictive to me in normal combat, unless I was under certain circumstances that did not require me to use any power to be effective (mainly group combat) or I was jumped by a well prepared group and needed a quick means of escape.

If you think any part of that is remotely balanced I pity you.

Does bedevil allow you to get out of any situation you are no no matter what? As in, is it usable off balance, off eq, while entangled, prone, paralysed, etc?

TrueHeal does not work no matter the situation. You seem to fail to mention that the person has to have 10-power on the prompt. Now I don't know about you, but for me it is far easier for me to regain balance; equilibrium; stand; focus body; and writhe, than it is for me to regain power.

Bedevil requires 8, diesn't it? Not a *huge* difference between the two costs, both being very high power, so I didn't think mentioning that was relevent to the comparison.


Depends on the situation - those things aren't trivial to do in sap or choke.

Bedevil has a power cost of 0; a mana cost of 1000. So perhaps you need to rethink what you thought?