Recessional gives a small chance to suffer an anorexia effect. If that happens, just try eating/drinking again. The CrusaderCanto gives a small chance to burn up a salve application. Same as before, just try again. Neither consume the appropriate balances.

I hate making new scripts or remaking them

Putrefaction is not that great any longer. It drains 500+ damage per tick, which is more damage than most knights hit me for, which doesn't offset the defence of it.

Passive vapors is VERY STRONG... it make a any fight with a Celestine dangerous due to not knowing what is happening. I fought Ceren a few weeks ago and due to Vapors I only ever saw Soulless rubbed twice on me, and I didn't even see it flung which hurts alot.

For the person who mentioned Crucifix earlier. The target, unless they have no system or they are retarded, will alwys writhe out before you regain equilibrium back. The cross is ONLY good for group combat, or in the very, very unlikely case you can stick balance lock on the target...which again requires them to have no system or be an idiot.



Funny, I recall someone who swore that you can apply for deepwounds every 3 seconds or so and sipping health was at 6 seconds?

Just teasing you.

Not as good as it sounds, Mimi. I take more damage when I put putre up than I would if I'd bash without it.

Haha, bastard. Somehow I knew someone was going to bring that up. Yes, I am a noob

As far as your comments on Celest/Mag changes recently, I don't recall any necessarily overpowering improvements on Celest's end recently while Mag envoys were inactive. Sure, some changes were made, but as far as Celestines and Paladins go, not that much.

Aquamancers maybe, can't remember exactly what went through. The big problem was that Mag skills weren't getting looked at.

The change to Bedazzle has made it alot better. Not extremley overpowering, but alot better and considering you can recover in 2seconds from it while it takes a full 5 to writhe from, it has it's advantages.

Liquidform upgrade was really strong, better than Trueheal in some cases.

Inquisition used to not beable to be done by multiple people, now it can be.

The passive vapors needs to be changed somehow and it would make fighting/surviving Celestines better.

I know these aren't upgrades, but are the major differences in Celestines/Nihilists, There is just noway anyone can compare Sacrifice/Wrack in being up to Judgement/Absolve level.

Also I noticed some talking about the Bards. I don't want to judge yet, but out of the four power/stun/affliction specials each has, being able to aeon with stun and blackout seems far, far better than the other 3

The only thing I find unfair about Celest is that everyone there can be rezzed by sacrifice, while bards and magi in magnagora can only rely on vitae or immolation, and if their body is taken they have no other alternative.

(Yes I didn't read this entire thread, but I think other than that skills are relatively balanced or will be balanced, each class in each place having its own good and bad things).

I'd also argue that psionics and psychic vampirism for mages is extremely powerful, at least for ones who can cure decently to last long enough to fully drain someone's wp, especially against dreamweavers .

Actually, in the AB file it says something like "A crafty Aquamancer can even use bubble on himself for a quick escape". If you did that, you'd be an idiot because unless your enemy just gives up and wanders off, its never going to work. Though, technically, you could if you just wanted to die 30 seconds later

The envoys are normally after trying to nerf one an other. Balance is not always found there... But on occasion it is...

Now I have spoken with Alger about this same thing.... the best skillset in Lusternia is........

Sacraments... It is also the hardest to use properly.

The worst overalll (not saying that it is a bad skillset just compared to the others) is.......

Moon... But it is the simplest to use...

Necromancy has its good and bad points... It is more a defensive skillset tho.. but remember Necro's have

Ectoplasm
Lich
Ghost - which carries over afflictions when you ghost and also phantoms still hit. It is also able to be attacked through telepathic (I think) or evoke kether....

They are pretty much all we get for fighting/escape tactics....

Celest has

Trueheal
Rez - cost 1 power to rezz someone who has sacraments and 10 for those who dont (no big deal)
Inquisition
Absolve


Now look at it this way... no magnagoran can fly into celest and kill 8 guards with ghost and lich, but you can have any celest come to mag and kill them using trueheal'

I just hate how celest never has to pray, i mean ever. someone will always sacrifice/rezz for them.... which leads celest into acting like a 5 year old kid.....

I still say bring on PERMA-DEATH, then lets see how they act!!!! YARR!!!


But I do agree that there has been and will always be some biasness to the light... the funny thing is though that no matter how many upgrades they get and how many downgrades we get... We still end up the better fighters... especially 1 vs 1

Uh, you lost me there. A free mistake and easy get away is worse then getting to start over once?

If you distort/have eyesigils at the gate, then yes.
Don't forget we also lose all our defs when liching, and ghosts can't move through water/are hindered by broken legs/currents/so many more things.

I think there are a few abilities in Celest that are a little too powerful and could be lessened just a bit, especially given the combination of such abilities together (not that they make combos, but the fact that they are in the same city, I mean).

1. Trueheal shouldn't give a prismatic barrier OR it shouldn't give you back balance and equilibrium.

2. Heretic, Infidel, and Inquisition should consume power or equilibrium when you fail, thus discouraging ganking/spamming.

The bard afflictions seem more powerful in Celest, too, from what I've seen/heard thus far. Vapors/aeon is a much better combination than blind/paralyzed, for example.

Celest just wont admit that Estarra plays in Celest... not in Mag... which is why they get the goodies

One thing that always manages to bug me is that yes, rez and sacrifice are very nice skills in that they make xp loss by praying much less frequent.

However, these skills do not affect combat at -all-. That's right, when I'm fighting you, I will not be able to use these abilities to gain an advantage in the fight at all!! Big surprise there, no? They're totally supplementary skills, unlike lich which does in fact have combat bonuses (stats, and ability to come back to the fight independent from outside intervention)

In combat, we have 6 skills to use:

Dazzle: Strips blindness defense, 0p. Transfixes if defense is down, 2p.

Judgement: Only useful in group situations or if you are a very good celestine.

Trueheal: Escape maneuver, cures all wounds, afflictions, and restores balance/equilibrium. Puts up a prismatic barrier. (Which instakills can still go through...stupid decapitate)

Heretic: 5 afflictions. Opens up for Infidel.
At this point, the target usually RUNS

Infidel: Does 400 damage to either health or mana. Ticks twice, sometimes only once.

Inquisition: 10 second stun, strips all defenses.

To pull off an inquisition in 1v1 combat, you need to have perfect timing due to the power costs (you won't regain the needed power for Inquisition before the open aura wears off), and as well, an immobile target. So, impossible for paladins. Celestines have a better chance, but seriously, if you have your target immobile for that long, drop a damned soulless and be done with it.

Removing the balance/equilibrium restoration to trueheal would only affect it in that people could no longer do the offensive combos (whack/whack/trueheal/whack/whack haymaker-ish). But erm, no one does this now....I mean, haymaker kinda sucks. Or titans... whack/whack/trueheal/whack/whack/refreshpower/trueheal/whack/whack. What titan paladins are there?

With the prismatic barrier, you can just wait for balance and equi to come back, and then make your escape then.

Honestly, I think the best skillset out there is tarot. Great utility usage, and very powerful in combat. Worst would be a toss up between astrology and healing, can't say for certain as they're so rare.

Fail.

BM and PB Paladins can infact pull Inquisitions easily. Using Pinleg between the stages or even pulling a Tendon should give more than enough time. You can compare that to Necromancy now and how is it you dont see how it's more powerful.

Feed: Yeah, talk about a good way to waste 4 seconds of eq time.

Shrivel: We give you a mending affliction in exchange for losing eq for 4 seconds.

Leech: This does nothing for the Ur'guard, though it helps in tight situations with Absolve to slow it down.

Omen: Cured by most fighters immediatley, so wasted power.

Putrefaction: Not so bad, but sadly it does more damage every tick than it stops. This I find only useable in group combat where I'm fighting atleast 2 or more other knights.

Ectoplasm: This is ok, but with Cleanse enchants so easy to come by, it's usually cured before we recover.

Contagion: This used to be great, but goes away quickly and is less effective in group combats. sucks also that every time it afflicts you, it's an easy cure, unlike other similiar skills which hide their afflictions.

Ghost: Honestly, this is the only sweet skill we have, but wait, Distortion fields strip it and afflictions effect us in it, and of course we can be attacked in it. Guess it's kind of risky.

Crucify/Sacrifice: God please just give me judgement and make me happy. This, in it's current state, has got to be the hardest kill to pull off unless it's in a group.

Lichdom: Ahhh, not so bad... I mean, it's really nice having -1 strength 60% of the time. Sucks that a cheap sigil completley negates it's usefullness. Also crappy that Inquisition strips it.

Sacraments has more than 6 combat skills, but you only listed the usefull ones. Numen is Sacraments right? I'd prefer that over Putrefaction for PvP

Ack, forgot numen. That one, I love. Mostly used in bashing though, unless I'm up against a damage knight. Even then, I'd rather use the 4p more constructively in offense, but I will numen if I need it.

I'm not saying that necromancy doesn't need help...it does, we've been over this before. But people seem to be under the impression that sacrament abilities like Inquisition are ungodly overpowered and don't realize that these skills are not exactly easy to pull off.

I think my point is this. Yes, celestines have nasty good skills, but they are very difficult to use effectively. Most people seem to be under the impression that the elite celestine fighters are good because of their skills, but I think they're good because they take the time to develop a very good offensive routine to go with those skills. Amaru, Shamarah, and Ceren all come to mind.

I still love the combo Ceren did to my alt once...stripped levitate with whatever their def stripper is, stuck aeon when angel double hit with anorexia/stupidity, then he flew up, empressed me so I fell for concussion. Easy absolve after that, but fun to watch him work.

EDIT: spelling. Also, thinking back it might've gone the other way around. Concussion first, then aeon/stupidity/anorexia combo immediately. Nastiness.

Heh, he pulled it off? I've thought about that combo but never actually bothered to try.

We should all bow to your eloquence.

At the risk of repeating myself:

1. Trueheal is too powerful, fix it.
2. Inquisition stuns for 10 second AND strips all defenses, fix it.
3. Soul rezz is a powerful tool in combat, just not in the heat of the actual fight, not broken, but powerful just the same. A good morale booster, if nothing else, because you're less afraid of losing precious experience in a fight. All the body destruction abilities can't stop you from being resurrected this way, though eye sigils will screw you over.
4. Judgement may be crap one-on-one (and it should be because any instakill should require good hindering first), but it is very powerful in group combat when someone hinders and the other just judges.

Does anyone have a list of what instakills are available to each city/commune? I'd like to see how they measure up.

Seriously, all this thread is people whining that Celest is owning them, and attributing it to skills which is not to case.