I'm sure I'm revealing myself as a complete moron... but is that power cost per person? Or it a coven ability so it's spread out over 5 people or something? Cause if it's cumulative... I don't guess I see how that's such a big deal... But if it's per person... wow.

Track and Hoist are from Scavenger, not from Crowform.

Oooh, okay, I was thinking of Crowform as more like morph eagle from Achaea than it really is

It's 50 shadows, which must be in the cauldron of the coven leader. Shadows are gathered at night, one shadow per room on prime, at the cost of 3 power per shadow (one if you have put up nightkiss). The longnight coven requires 13 people and 50 shadows for a 10 minute effect, that being that noone in the local area can use any skill which costs power.

While this apparantly would be devestating in theory, I still really think it's such a ridiculous power cost that can be utilized so rarely at any given time, I am just stunned that this came up as something the basin would ever have to worry about. It's not overpowered if it's never going to happen. I mean, how often does even the Serenwilde have 13 person covens? How easy is that to pull together on the fly? During a village influence? Are you KIDDING me? Hypotheticals are nice, but uh, sorry, no.

ive fought both celest and magnagora, and i find personally that celest has definitely not got the stronger skills, i mean ive been inquisitioned while fighting a very good celestine and still not lost the fight, i think lich alone gives magnagora a huge advantage

Before Glomdoring, 13 person covens weren't that uncommon. I was in at least five of them.

Most of this is just speculation about what Glomdoing *could* do sometime in the distant future when Lusternia became more populated. Probably silly to speculate about that, but yeah.

The cost IS a heck of a lot - but so is the benefit should it be possible. Perhaps the cost and duration should be reduced by half each? But balancing a skill that won't see use for an OOC year is kind of silly...


Could you elaborate on this huge advantage? Liching during a fight means coming back off eq for a loooong time and without any defences. How is this an advantage during the fight? Sure, it's nice for escaping, but escape skills do not give an offensive advantage, unless they are trueheal, which is an escape skill that can be sued as a devestating offensive boost if used in certain ways. For instance, Truemaker does 33% more damage than Haymaker in addition to the full heal and cure. Justify this please?

Most of the posts on this thread have been prejudiced beyond recognition, and so I find it singularly refreshing to read Silimaur's words, and to hear the views of someone entirely without bias in any respect, who can honestly and genuinely tell the truth.

Come on people. Let's have more posts like Silimaur's.

aiakon yes i do play a character from celest, but yes i do also play a nihilist. so to be honest be as sarcastic as you want

Lich is easily stripped too then also what shorlen said above, it is by far weaker than a trueheal or even sacrifice which can rezz a damn soul sitting around for days on end.

Heh, Lich is not easily stripped, as I, and others have been trying to make clear all this while.

And Shorlen, yes, trueheal has the potential to be used to great offensive advantage, but only when you consider someone like Daevos, Ixion, or Icarus using the truemaker combo. It only works for heavily runed damage knights, and usually titans at that.

And really, who even uses the truemaker in combat? What true damage knights are there in celest? This is like saying Glomdoring is OP because their skillset avails some very nice abilities and combos, however since they're not being put in practice...what's the point in the end?

Yes, the balance restoration could do with examination, but how significant would such a change impact people? It'd still be a very effective defensive escape tool, which is what it was designed to be.

Oh, and if you do remove the balance/equi restoration, I must protest that things like Decapitate do not go through prismatic barrier. That's just stupid.

It is easily stripped by a celestine not by a warrior, trust me using sacraments and necromancy as warriors is very hard, they are not geared for warriors at all and half the skills are practically useless to them if you are trying to be tanky you have no eq to pull off alot of the things you need to. but as a Celestine it is very simple to do, if you know how... Also remember you all jump in groups and make sure to strip lich first then
kill.


And decap was already told it goes through everything since it is so easy to stop, cost 5 power and takes like 11-12 seconds to do. It is one of the easiest instakills to stop.

Nico, my point in showing that your curing is flawed was to show that you don't necessarily have a grasp on the true potential some of your skills hold. Note: I think Paladins v. Ur'guard are the closest in balance between the two orgs, so your opinion on your personal ability is pointless, not to mention you've never been inquisisioned so I don't see what knowledge you have on the matter. Please, can you all stop being so biased?
It's clear to me that the Celestian skills are FAR better than the Magnagoran skills. A nihilists needs to pile god knows how many afflictions to get a wrack off, and to damage kill as a nihilist... well, good luck. On the other hand, (oh by the way nico, anyone who hasn't been able to kill you after inqui is blowin it, because there is no way to avoid inqui soulless) Inquisition takes NO afflictions, you give them 2 unstrippable afflictions, and you get 2 chances at an instakill, that's not skill, that's just being able to walk into the room your enemy has run to.
Absolve>>>>>Wrack anyway. I don't see how celestians could possibly say that they are balanced with Nihilists.

Now, Aquas v. Geos should be an easy argument. Hailstorm, Staff, Currents, Swimming, Whirlpool... A FAR better specialization class. kthx

Again, this is false-like I said earlier. It may have happened before, but how long ago was that? Probably the beginning of the summer or so. Celest does NOT sit around and say "hey lets go strip some lich and kill some folk". Lich is rarely stripped, and if it happens-it's your own damn fault for being such an idiot and being inquisitioned, because it's very easily avoided. You may think it's easy for a Celestine to put it on someone, but in reality-it's only easy because the person fighting against them doesn't take the necessary precations to avoid it.
That'd be like saying, "Sap is overpowered because I don't have a cleanse enchantment" If you take the very simple steps to avoid/prevent a skill-it's a lot harder to have it pulled off on you

You don't roll in the right stripping crew obviously. I havent seen it in a while since I am not a necro anymore, but I remember when munsia, narsrim, amaru, malicia, thoros and sometimes forren rolled out, you would be losing lich. Now remember, you may not do it, but it has been done. Lately I haven't seen thoros doiing it at all which is nice But believe me if you roll with the right crew they will do it. If you were around when they changed it from stripping lich and vitae you would know that it was used all the time. It was one of the things Amaru argued about because he could not strip vitae.

The fact still remains that Haymaker costs 10 power and does 33% less damage than Truemaker, which also costs 10 power and has the side effect of curing all wounds/afflictions, making Haymaker strictly worse than Truemaker in EVERY way, with no advantage over the other skill. Haymaker is supposed to be a primary skillset trans skill, and Trueheal is supposed to be a tertiary skillset trans skill - why is the tertiary a more versitile, strightly better version of the primary?

Perhaps it is not Trueheal that needs to be looked at as much as Haymaker, but when I had suggested a trans skill for Axelords that was still strictly worse than Truemaker, Tuek pointed out how overpowered it would be. Why then is Truemaker not considered equally overpowered?

I take a little offense to the Blacktalon being regarded as absurdly overpowered.

To go through a few of Shorlen's issues...

Crow or not, it is impossible to trample in the trees.

Stagstomp so outclasses eyepeck it isn't even funny...not because of the effect, but because of sap. See pollen/ger for an illustration.

Darkseed outclasses scarab. Again, it's a synergy issue. Scarab does not add power to sap. Darkseed does.

A consistent speed bonus outclasses a 25% limb breaking shrug rate.

Even with the addition of nestcall, stag totem offers vastly more healing power with fewer restrictions. There's no comparison. Medicine bag has no Crow response.




Now, to be fair, the Blacktalon advantages:

Faster demesne affliction rate. Shorlen is correct in saying that either murder or spiders is better than squirrels. I think the jury is still out on pathtwist. Even if all it accomplished was forcing my opponent to tumble, I think that'd be worth it. I love when people tumble in my demesne.

Rebirth. The extra couple afflictions when you're near death and hindered beyond recognition can be a huge deal.

Gore is useless. Swoop is fairly useful. The instakill might be a little ridiculous, but it adds a fun dimension to thornlash. Back when thornlash was first implemented, this was outright overpowered. (And the envoys can tell you that I suggested the nerf to my own skill--part of the reason I get annoyed when people call us overpowered. Doubly so when it comes from Shamarah. Ahem.)

To clarify, I don't mean to start a flame war about this, nor to say that Blacktalon skills are "absurdly overpowered" - my comment was that the parallelled skills seem, to me, far better for BTs. Though, the skills that do not have parallels on both sides might not be.

I am of the personal belief that Crow and Stag should be balanced against each other, and that Crow Druidry and Stag Druidry should be balanced against each other.

With the way Pathtwist currently works, it is worthless unless you get lucky. 5p for a very small chance of teleporting someone to the center of your demesne if they are running away and running on the ground rather than flying, burrowing, hermitting, sporing, etc. When Forren and Shamarah and others were bliping in and out of my demesne really fast, I tried hitting them with it, and it still didn't work. I don't know why.

I'd gladly take an additional passive aflict added to my demesne any day over that.

Don't use pathtwist unless they're already deep in the demesne, then. Do you use treebane when they're at the fringes?

And...you addressed pathtwist. There's a much longer list of why Hartstone are very much on par, if not stronger than the Blacktalon, still above.

The bonus I see to Lich aside from the stat bonus and the extra cold touch and reduced power
cost for contagion is the buffer for experience loss. You won't lose experience, but if someone has
made you lose lichform in the first place and you are liching once again, you obviously don't belong there.
So you'll escape, re-lich, start at 0 power, and it's "Overpowered" ability past that are nothing.. unless you are suicidal and want to die again.

Talkan,

Sorry took me a while to find the whole inquisition stripping stuff.

here is a part of it, this one should be where xenthos points out the group stripping. can't remember though (edit- it is read post 71)

http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=293964

Also if you want to read the thread where amaru complained when he could not strip vitae along with lich here is the beginning.

http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=293864

Hope this clears up that people use and still use it to strip lich, making a trans skill inferior in many ways to Sacraments.