Daganev2006-11-21 21:03:22
Ok after reading the PDF its clear... they just hate the death penalty. Everything else is fluff that doesn't take into account the situation they are in.
Sylphas2006-11-21 21:51:31
Are we going to do the death penalty debate, or just skirt around it some more? 
Aiakon2006-11-21 21:56:03
I don't like debating the death penalty. Too much work.
Daganev2006-11-21 23:05:43
The death penalty has be debated to death. Its not a debate that I can see has any principle which it is solely based on. I find in general these issues never have an overarching principle which extends beyond the particulars of the situation.
ferlas2006-11-22 01:33:43
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Nov 21 2006, 05:19 PM) 355750
I'm still of the opinion that you can't set a precedent using an incredibly extreme example. The only trials that will compare to this in future Iraq will be when the government is overthrown by a foreign power, in which case precedent is thrown the hell out anyway.
That's sort of what I was thinking.
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Nov 21 2006, 08:25 PM) 355821
I do apologise. My post sounded a little bitchy.. but read it as though I'm saying it in game while spamming the sparkle emote.. because that was my mood as I wrote it.
erm does that mean yes?
Unknown2006-11-22 04:52:55
Why was just this one minor incident the entire focus of the trial? Surely there are other atrocities that Saddam committed that should be brought to light so that the victims can perceive justice being done on their behalf, and that all the facts have a chance to be aired. Particularly so that others equally responsible for those acts are named and similarly brought to justice.
One of the founding principles upon which the occupation was founded (aside from the WMD myth) I thought was that a tyrannical and corrupt regime was to be brought down. Has that happened? Not in the slightest.
Post-war Iraq is worse than Pre-war Iraq, there's just different people being killed/tortured/whatever.
To be able to claim that you are liberating a country from oppression and corruption with a straight face, you have to demonstrate that you are capable of NOT being oppressive and corrupt, ESPECIALLY to the people you don't like.
After all, isn't that why Saddam is on trial? To quote someone I don't know, we aren't judged by how we treat our friends, but by how we treat our enemies.
Edit: I think it's highly illuminating to see that US soldiers are above both Iraqi and UN law. I think that says quite a bit.
One of the founding principles upon which the occupation was founded (aside from the WMD myth) I thought was that a tyrannical and corrupt regime was to be brought down. Has that happened? Not in the slightest.
Post-war Iraq is worse than Pre-war Iraq, there's just different people being killed/tortured/whatever.
To be able to claim that you are liberating a country from oppression and corruption with a straight face, you have to demonstrate that you are capable of NOT being oppressive and corrupt, ESPECIALLY to the people you don't like.
After all, isn't that why Saddam is on trial? To quote someone I don't know, we aren't judged by how we treat our friends, but by how we treat our enemies.
Edit: I think it's highly illuminating to see that US soldiers are above both Iraqi and UN law. I think that says quite a bit.
Daganev2006-11-22 06:40:47
What the hell are you talking about?
The 10 soldiers out of the 140,000 that might have done some things wrong are on trial for it.
The Iraqis are killing the Iraqis, or have you not noticed this? Not the government. The government is seeking out to get rid of all the people who are using hte government to further thier personal tribal goals instead of national ones.
Saddam has multiple trials for multiple crimes, Even after being given the death sentence they are putting him on trial for something else. Each crime gets its own trial, and they go up in severity as they go through them.
The 10 soldiers out of the 140,000 that might have done some things wrong are on trial for it.
The Iraqis are killing the Iraqis, or have you not noticed this? Not the government. The government is seeking out to get rid of all the people who are using hte government to further thier personal tribal goals instead of national ones.
Saddam has multiple trials for multiple crimes, Even after being given the death sentence they are putting him on trial for something else. Each crime gets its own trial, and they go up in severity as they go through them.
Aiakon2006-11-22 11:29:03
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 22 2006, 06:40 AM) 356029
What the hell are you talking about?
The 10 soldiers out of the 140,000 that might have done some things wrong are on trial for it.
What about the many hundreds of atrocity commiting soldiers who haven't been caught yet?
Daganev2006-11-22 16:26:24
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Nov 22 2006, 03:29 AM) 356062
What about the many hundreds of atrocity committing soldiers who haven't been caught yet?
Why do you think those people exist?
If you want to complain about soldiers doing atrocities complain about Darfur where they are really happening instead of trying to invent things that aren't. I know, I know, everything is a big conspiracy to cover stuff up.
Aiakon2006-11-22 17:27:49
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 22 2006, 04:26 PM) 356107
Why do you think those people exist?
A basic insight into human behaviour, and reports from the neutral press.
