As some of you know, the Envoys are working to try to balance Axelords and Pureblades with the other weapon specs, but there appears to be a very large problem. Many of the Envoys have little to no experience with Pureblades and Axelords, and indeed, many of the Envoys have little to no experience with warrior combat at all, as they are not warrior envoys. Thus, progress towards a complete report has been quite sluggish, and Estarra has asked me to post here requesting assistance in completing it.

Please, if you respond with ideas or opinions, give a measure of how much experience you have had either fighting as a pureblade or axelord, or fighting against pureblades and axelords. If you have been both a two-hander and a one-hander, your word will carry even more weight, since you will be better able to gauge where the flaws lie in the two -anders that are no present in the one-handers.

Here is what has been asked of us:

And a clarification when asked about making mechanical changes to a skillset beyond altering afflicts:

So please, keep suggestions simple.


Here is the report so far:

Mechanics changes

1. The affliction rate for poisons on two-handed weapons changed to use the following equation: twoHanderAfflictRate = 1-((1-oneHanderAfflictRate)^2). Thus, if the chance for a one hander to proc the poison is 50%, the chance for a two hander is 75%. If the chance for the one hander is 80%, the chance for the two hander is 96%. This gives both one handers and two handers the same chance to proc at least one poison, with two handers having the advantage of doing more wounds per combo, and one handers having the advantage of being able to deal two poisons in one combo.

2. ChampionHelms - I've tested the warrior champion helm to determine how much it increases wounds and damage given. It gives a 25% bonus to damage and a 27% bonus to wounds. I was under the impression that it is suppose to only give a 15% bonus to each, so I am adding a request that it be fixed in this envoy report.

3. Magnatize, the Telekinetic skill, currently takes two channels to slow down a BC or BM's weapons, but only one channel for the same effect on a PB or AL. We propose reducing the effect of Magnatize on two handed weapons to 75% of it's current strength. This way, it still only takes one locked channel to fully hinder the PB or AL, but the full hindering effect is less.


Skill changes

1. HeftyAxe: (Axelord) The skill currently lowers weapon stats on the weapon it hits. This makes the skill worthless again non-warriors, and not even much of an impact on other warriors. Suggestion for this is the blow they parried was so hard that they are unable to parry for the following 5 seconds. This would, in other words, give the affliction "unbalanced" when the skill activated, which would prevent parrying and go away on its own after five seconds. This will allow the Axelord to swing and not be parried for at least the next strike. Considering how low the proc rate is on this so far, this would not be an overpowering factor. Also, when the skill activates, the Axelord should notice it.

2. HeftySword: (Pureblade) This currently procs a small stun (about .5 of a second) and has no impact on the target as a giant sword crashing down on them should. Suggestion for this is to increase the stun to about 2 seconds. This is still not overpowering, but will atleast allow the PB to have some breathing time since their attack was just stopped. Also, when the skill activates, the Pureblade should notice it.

3. Roundhouse removed and instead replaced by one of the following alternatives:

3a. FuryStrike (Axelord Trans skill/Replacing Roundhouse): This skill will allow you to hit one person twice or two persons once. If one target is selected, the cost is 7p, while if two targets are selected, it's 4p. The strikes count as swings, can be targetted, and are still subject to parry/stance/shield/rebounding. These hits will deal 75% of normal damage, and 100% of normal deepwounds.

3b. Momentum (Axelord Trans skill/Replacing Roundhouse): 7p, usable while off balance only. Grants a defence that allows the Axelord to use an attack (swing, jab, hack, slice, swipe, slash, strike, cleave, maneuver) off balance which consumes no balance, but deals only 50% of normal damage. Defence expires on balance recovery and upon use of an attack. This would allow the Axelord to hit immediately after getting a particularly nasty affliction.

3c. Momentum (Axelord Trans skill/Replacing Roundhouse): You must first prepare an attack with MOMENTUM SETUP (attack) in a similar manner to the hunting skill Ambush. This does not take or require balance or equilibrium. Valid attacks are: swing, jab, hack, slice, swipe, slash, strike, cleave, maneuver perform (name). Once you have set up an attack, you can then use MOMENTUM (person) for 7p to use the set up attack while off balance. This attack is treated like a normal attack, except it deals 50% less health damage and does not require nor consume balance. Valid parameters are, of course, left/right/up/down/bodypart, based on which attack is setup.


Affliction changes

1. Slitthroat should be changed to a 2-second delayed smoking myrtle cure. Though not exactly a PB/AL change, this is highly relevent to the proposed change in poison afflict rates included in this report.

2. CollapseLungs- (Pureblade only) Remove the PunctureLung affliction prerequisite and change the wound state requirement to Critical.

3. CrushChest- (Axelord only) Remove the BreakChest affliction prerequisite and change the wound state requirement to Critical.

4. Currently, CrackElbow and CrackKneecap have the issue of not being stackable, and thus not being worth using. Hitting someone with the CrackElbow or CrackKneecap afflicts when they already have those afflicts should break the arm or leg and cause a short stun. I believe that this would make the afflicts a bit more useful to use.


Affliction replacements

Both

1. Lacerations: (Pureblade & Axelord, replaces Arm and Leg Arteries, light-medium arm/leg wounds) - Change name to Lacerations and increase intial bleeding to 100 and bleeding per tic to 100 (these numbers are both 50 for SeveredArteries).

Pureblade

1. RuptureStomach: (Pureblade, replaces SepticWound, Critical Gut Wound, Swing or Jab) - Ruptures the stomach, causing bleeding and lowering hunger level 1 one full level. The Bleeding would be heavy, seeing as this is a critical wound. Skills such as Orange, Constitution, etc will still have their same effects, but the wound will still lower their hunger level.

2. Flay: (Pureblade, replaces Scalp, Heavy Head Wound, Strike or Swing) - This attack flays the skin from the victims face, causing disfigurement due to the wound. This gives the victim Disfigurement until cured. The cure would be a delayed-regeneration cure. This will give Pureblades an attack that will aide in slowing down Guardians mainly, considering they are one of the toughest fights for a warrior due to passive and active skills to slow/subdue the warrior. CharismaticAura will still render the victim immune to the effect, and CharismaticSmile will cure it instantly (at the same balance loss that it currently has for disloyalty).

3. GashCheek (Pureblade, replaces SliceForehead, Medium Head Wound, Jab) - Causes 75 bleeding (no incurable bleeding, no repeated bleeding) and causes your cheek to twitch involuntarily every 4-6 seconds, throwing you off balance for a second. Cured by eating marjoram. The intent of this affliction is to give PBs another jab afflict for the head, and to remove more BM afflictions from the two hander specs.

Axelord

1. SeverSpine: (Axelord, replaces SepticWound, Critical Gut Wound, Swing) - A strong blow to the gut shattering the spine and collapsing the nervous system, paralysing the person until cured. 3.5-4 second delayed Regeneration cure.

2. ShatterJaw (Axelord, replaces Scalp, Heavy Head Wound, Jab) - Causes target to suffer acute pain when eating or drinking, resulting in 75 bleeding per thing eaten or drunk. Cured by applying mending to head. When cured, becomes the BreakJaw affliction (which has a mending or arnica cure).

3. RingingEars (Axelord, replaces SliceEar, Light Head Wound, Swing or Jab) - Causes the same stun as SliceEar, plus either confusion or dizziness (which one it gives is semi-masked). The intent is to give ALs another jab afflict for the head, and to remove more BM afflictions from the two hander specs.

4. DislocateShoulder (Axelord, replaces BreakArm, Heavy Arm Wound, Jab or Swing) - by seperating someone's arm from its socket, you prevent them from using the arm in any useful manner. When cured, the pain of the nerves reattaching causes them to swoon. (Arm break that causes stun + blackout on cure). Cured by applying mending to arms. Alternatively, it could case blackout + sprawled or sprawled + stun on cure. This is intended to be of the same level of ferocity as SeverTendon.



So, again, we are asking for informed opinions and relatively simple suggestions (even though some of these aren't). Please do not start flame wars because you think someone else's suggestion is overpowered. Please do not derail this thread.

Thank you.

Thank you, Shorlen, for taking charge of this!

I hope all you warriors appreciate what Shorlen is doing as he has no stake in any of this being he isn't one!

Is there a typo about 2 skills suggested to replace roundhouse? I liked the roundhouse concept

They are two different suggestions for replacing it. A few of us decided that Roundhouse 1- is useless as is, and 2- if made what it should be (a room attack), it would be overpowered. The first suggestion is in line with the concept of roundhouse, in that it allows you to fight two people at once. Of course, in a single duel, keeping two people razed is really hard, but still.

The two person version could go through rebounding, maybe. Hrm.

As you might know, I've been an Axelord for about 6 months now. I used to be a mage, so I've experienced both ends of the spectrum (beating up and getting beat up).

Anyway, my comments on the AL suggestions are above.



Or you could just give it the option of acting as two cleaves (cleave = 0 power attack which razes shields/rebounding while attacking) or 1 cleave and 1 swing.

But, like I said before, I'm not a big fan of the whole Roundhouse idea.

Here were a couple of ideas that I had posted up here a while ago. I'm no envoy and I've never claimed to be one. I know I'm not one to balance skills, but hopefully others can.

Hmmm, what would be overpowered about an untargeted swing to each enemy in the room that bypasses shield, rebounding, stances, parry?

Daganev was being sarcastic. I hope.

I can never tell with him

So have it be blocked by shield. How is it any different than boulderblast? I think comparing it to thunderclap is giving WAY too much credit to a single warrior hit.

It's actually an entire warrior combo hit. We're talking, by the way, about 1,000 deepwounds, 1,000 damage, and the definate possibility of afflictions. Stopped by shield would have to be a must, and even then, I personally consider Boulderblast/Hailstorm too powerful for what they do already, and they are just 500 or so damage to everyone. It is, of course, only my opinion - other envoys can add their voice one way or another. I simply believe this skill is too powerful for a warrior to have, even if it costed 10 power.

Also, it would be worthless in any situation except one where it would be overpowered - that is, in a very large group, which would very likely have other warriors who can be greatly assisted by your spread of damage, and who could also possibly roundhouse as well, stacking even more damage.

Two tae'daes using this skill and damage weapons, by the way, would instakill any non-warrior non-titan in the room on sheer damage alone, wouldn't it?

Ummm... no.

200 damage weapons, with lightning runes, it still takes 3 hits to kill someone who doesn't heal. (level 60ish)


If people don't like it, people don't like it... but I don't see how its either A. Overpowered, or B. useless.

But then again, Pulp and Haymaker are considered useless.

Roark has stated that he believes poison afflict rates to be more balanced now than before, since two-handers deal more wounding per strike. Thus, there is no need to increase two-hander poison afflict rates.

Can someone with experience fighting under the new poison afflict rates say how balanced they are now? Throwing numbers around in my head, I would think that the new system would create an even greater disparity rather than the opposite, but I do not have experience in the field.

Remember that a damage weapon for an axelord would be 360 max without any other additions. With additions like auras, artifacts, and dwarven runes the weapon could easily go above 400. Now you said it takes 3 hits to kill someone who does not heal with a 200 damage weapon. Well with a 400 damage weapon, two simultaneous unblockable hits will outright kill the example you gave above.

I have tested the affliction rate on myself. I can't tell exactly how it scales up per wound level, but what I can state is that at a wound level of critical, the affliction rate is 100%. Now a person with transcendent resilience will reduce his overall chance of being afflicted to 67% per attack on a critically wounded bodypart, but a person with no resilience will have a poison affliction acquired every attack if the limb is above critical.

The impression that I get from your statement of what Roark said is that he believes Duel-Wielders and Two-Handers are more balanced between each other now since Two-Handers can acquire the critical wound state quicker. It is true that Two-Handers can have a 20% increase in precision over Duel-wielders, but even with that both can still acquire critical wounds on limbs over a certain time period. A 20% increase in speed of acquiring a certain wound state does not actually negate the fact that at critical wounds a duel-wielder will be able to acquire 3-4 afflictions on a person, compared to the at best 2 a Two-Hander can acquire.

When you also consider the fact that the limb has to already be at a certain wound state to gain the affliction rate boost, the Two-Hander boost in affliction acquisition speed is a bit off-set by the fact that the gain in the poison affliction rate will not happen until the next round of attacks. For a Duel-Wielder, the gain in affliction rate may be acquired in the same round since two attacks are actually occurring in that round instead of one. The first hit in the round may cause critical wounds, while the second hit would then experience the bonus in the poison affliction rate.

I do agree that this change is a good one for warriors over all, but I also feel that the change does not address the differences in versatility in poison use between Duel-Wielders and Two-Handers. In the end, I feel the former group will experience a greater boost from this change than the latter group.

What do you believe is a good solution to bring the two more in line with each other? Would my suggestion to increase the affliction rate for two handers to be the same as the change to get at least one affliction with a dual wielder combo assist?

Sorry, what? Not to nitpick, but this was my idea...
And yes, I like the idea too....

Yes, I think your suggestion will help fix the disparity. I do feel that a change to how slit-throat is cured needs to be implemented before that change is made though.

Should slitthroat: Have a mending to head instant cure and a delayed smoking myrtle cure, or just have the delayed smoking myrtle cure?