What if great axes and great swords are assumed to be double-bladed and each side can be poisoned? (i.e., allow 2 poisons per hit for Pureblades and Axelords)

What if great axes and great swords are assumed to be double-bladed and each side can be poisoned? (i.e., allow 2 poisons per hit for Pureblades and Axelords)

What if PB/AL attacks have a chance of double-poisoning the same poison (i.e., one dose of tetrodin has a 50% chance of hitting twice). Or perhaps the poison is injected so deeply into the wound that it cuts the ability to resist the poison.

(I'm just throwing out ideas so we're not stuck only on one track.)

Poison checks before deep wounds are calculated.

What if PB/AL attacks have a chance of double-poisoning the same poison (i.e., one dose of tetrodin has a 50% chance of hitting twice). Or perhaps the poison is injected so deeply into the wound that it cuts the ability to resist the poison.

(I'm just throwing out ideas so we're not stuck only on one track.)

As some of you know, the Envoys are working to try to balance Axelords and Pureblades with the other weapon specs, but there appears to be a very large problem. Many of the Envoys have little to no experience with Pureblades and Axelords, and indeed, many of the Envoys have little to no experience with warrior combat at all, as they are not warrior envoys. Thus, progress towards a complete report has been quite sluggish, and Estarra has asked me to post here requesting assistance in completing it.

Please, if you respond with ideas or opinions, give a measure of how much experience you have had either fighting as a pureblade or axelord, or fighting against pureblades and axelords. If you have been both a two-hander and a one-hander, your word will carry even more weight, since you will be better able to gauge where the flaws lie in the two -anders that are no present in the one-handers.

Here is what has been asked of us:

And a clarification when asked about making mechanical changes to a skillset beyond altering afflicts:

So please, keep suggestions simple.
Here is the report so far:

Mechanics changes

1. The affliction rate for poisons on two-handed weapons changed to use the following equation: twoHanderAfflictRate = 1-((1-oneHanderAfflictRate)^2). Thus, if the chance for a one hander to proc the poison is 50%, the chance for a two hander is 75%. If the chance for the one hander is 80%, the chance for the two hander is 96%. This gives both one handers and two handers the same chance to proc at least one poison, with two handers having the advantage of doing more wounds per combo, and one handers having the advantage of being able to deal two poisons in one combo.

2. ChampionHelms - I've tested the warrior champion helm to determine how much it increases wounds and damage given. It gives a 25% bonus to damage and a 27% bonus to wounds. I was under the impression that it is suppose to only give a 15% bonus to each, so I am adding a request that it be fixed in this envoy report.

What does this have to do with 2handers?

Skill changes

1. HeftyAxe: (Axelord) The skill currently lowers weapon stats on the weapon it hits. This makes the skill worthless again non-warriors, and not even much of an impact on other warriors. Suggestion for this is the blow they parried was so hard that they are unable to parry for the following 5 seconds. This will allow the Axelord to swing and not be parried for atleast the next strike. Considering how low the proc rate is on this so far, this would not be an overpowering factor. The skill as it is now, and if the change is accepted, needs to beable to be seen by the Axelord.

2. HeftySword: (Pureblade) This currently procs a small stun (about .5 of a second) and has no impact on the target as a giant sword crashing down on them should. Suggestion for this is to increase the stun to about 2 seconds. This is still not overpowering, but will atleast allow the PB to have some breathing time since their attack was just stopped. The skill as it is now, and if the change is accepted, needs to beable to be seen by the Pureblade.

This is a good idea and I agree it MUST be seen by the Pureblade

3. FuryStrike (Axelord Trans skill/Replacing Roundhouse): This skill will allow you to hit one person twice or two persons once. If one target is selected, the cost is 7p, while if two targets are selected, it's 4p. The strikes count as swings, can be targetted, and are still subject to parry/stance/shield/rebounding.

This would be a nice trans skill for AL

4. Momentum (Axelord Trans skill/Replacing Roundhouse): 6p, allows an Axelord to attack once while off balance. The attack can be anything, including a maneuver or sweep (though a sweep raises the total cost to 10p, obviously). This would allow the Axelord to hit immediately after getting a particularly nasty affliction.
Affliction changes

Pick one or the other though, they should not get 2 trans skills.

1. Slitthroat should have a delayed smoking cure. Though not exactly a PB/AL change, this is highly relevent to the proposed change in poison afflict rates included in this report.

I still believe a 1 smoke cure isnt enough, it should run a delayed smoking cure and a regen or mending salve to completly cur, since it is in fact disabling a major part of a PB's offense (If they choose to use it) I am comparing this to people who constantly use power draining thing to run the player out of power, as it stands right now, alot of telekinetic choose escozul daggers, while posion affliction rates for warriors have gotten better, they cannot drain the power as easily as telekinetics. But if it was a delayed smoke and a regen/mending after the smoking delay ended I could live with it... if not I would Veto it.

2. CollapseLungs- (Pureblade only) Remove the PunctureLung affliction prerequisite and change the wound state requirement to Critical.

Right now collapse lungs do not cause blackouts nearly at all, if CollapseLungs were as useful as PunctureLung it would be nice, CL needs to be reworked to make sure it is draining endurance AND causing the subject to actually blackout. It is a critical wound with only minor wound effects at this point. This would be a nerf to PB's unless the blackout rate was looked into... Not once when I have had my lungs collapsed have I ever blacked out...


3. CrushChest- (Axelord only) Remove the BreakChest affliction prerequisite and change the wound state requirement to Critical.

What would this do?

4. Currently, CrackElbow and CrackKneecap have the issue of not being stackable, and thus not being worth using. Hitting someone with the CrackElbow or CrackKneecap afflicts when they already have those afflicts should break the arm or leg and cause a short stun. I believe that this would make the afflicts a bit more useful to use.

What is the cure to crack elbow and kneecap again? They should be made into something like a severtendon cure for both. CrackElbow being a swing attack is hard to hit, so if it is made into a arm version of tendon it would be a nice wound. CrackKneecap could be an AL version of tendon too... cure wise

Affliction replacements

Both

1. Lacerations: (Pureblade & Axelord, replaces Arm and Leg Arteries, light-medium arm/leg wounds) - Change name to Lacerations and increase bleeding to 100.

What is the bleeding at now, I agree with this, because whatever it is, it doesnt do much to anyone... but if bleeding is already at 75-80... 100 isn't going to do the trick.


Pureblade

1. RuptureStomach: (Pureblade, replaces SepticWound, Critical Gut Wound, Swing or Jab) - Ruptures the stomach, causing bleeding and lowering hunger level 1 one full level. The Bleeding would be heavy, seeing as this is a critical wound. Skills such as Orange, Constitution, etc will still have their same effects, but the wound will still lower their hunger level.

This would be nice, and would help keep people from constant stance legs parry head

2. Flay: (Pureblade, replaces Scalp, Heavy Head Wound, Strike or Swing) - This attack flays the skin from the victims face, causing disfigurement due to the wound. This gives the victim Disfigurement until cured. The cure would be a delayed-regeneration cure. This will give Pureblades an attack that will aide in slowing down Guardians mainly, considering they are one of the toughest fights for a warrior due to passive and active skills to slow/subdue the warrior.

This would be nice, but should keep the bleeding in. PB's need all the bleeding they can get. Scalp causes stacked/increased bleeding if not cured, so to balance it with a delayed cured disfigurement alone, it wont benifit fighting anything but ent users.

3. GashCheek (Pureblade, replaces SliceForehead, Medium Head Wound, Jab) - Causes 75 bleeding (no incurable bleeding, no repeated bleeding) and causes your cheek to twitch involuntarily every 4-6 seconds, throwing you off balance for a second. Cured by eating marjoram. The intent of this affliction is to give PBs another jab afflict for the head, and to remove more BM afflictions from the two hander specs.

Head jab afflictions would be nice for a PB, we need more

Axelord

1. SeverSpine: (Axelord, replaces SepticWound, Critical Gut Wound, Swing) - A strong blow to the gut shattering the spine and collapsing the nervous system, paralysing the person until cured. Delayed Regeneration cure. The initial suggestion had a focus body at the end of this, but that would mean staying paralysed far too long.

How long of a cure time? Focus body takes 1 sec at trans and what 4 sec when you first get it? How long will someone stay paralysed?

2. ShatterJaw (Axelord, replaces Scalp, Heavy Head Wound, Jab) - Causes target to suffer acute pain when eating or drinking, resulting in 75 bleeding per thing eaten or drunk. Cured by applying mending to head. When cured, becomes the BreakJaw affliction (which has a mending or arnica cure).

This sounds nice, I will propose a PB version of this at the end

3. RingingEars (Axelord, replaces SliceEar, Light Head Wound, Swing or Jab) - Causes the same stun as SliceEar, plus either confusion or dizziness (which one it gives is semi-masked). The intent is to give ALs another jab afflict for the head, and to remove more BM afflictions from the two hander specs.

This should be made available to PB's also.

4. DislocateShoulder (Axelord, replaces BreakArm, Heavy Arm Wound, Jab or Swing) - by seperating someone's arm from its socket, you prevent them from using the arm in any useful manner. When cured, the pain of the nerves reattaching causes them to swoon. (Arm break that causes stun + blackout on cure). Alternatively, it could case blackout + sprawled or sprawled + stun on cure. This is intended to be of the same level of ferocity as SeverTendon.

This sounds like an much more beefed up version a way more powerful version of tendon, but I like it

So, again, we are asking for informed opinions and relatively simple suggestions (even though some of these aren't). Please do not start flame wars because you think someone else's suggestion is overpowered. Please do not derail this thread.

Thank you.

Roark has stated that he believes poison afflict rates to be more balanced now than before, since two-handers deal more wounding per strike. Thus, there is no need to increase two-hander poison afflict rates.

Can someone with experience fighting under the new poison afflict rates say how balanced they are now? Throwing numbers around in my head, I would think that the new system would create an even greater disparity rather than the opposite, but I do not have experience in the field.

What if great axes and great swords are assumed to be double-bladed and each side can be poisoned? (i.e., allow 2 poisons per hit for Pureblades and Axelords)

I think the change would give a slight lead to Two-Handed warriors when it came to poison affliction rates. Though Duel-Wielders will have the possibility of acquiring one extra affliction per round, I am not sure the chance of that happening would off-set the bonus Two-Handed warriors gain from their quicker acquisition of the critical wound state on limbs. The idea sounds promising though.

Double poisoning the same poison will still have the problem with Calcise that Narsrim pointed out - being too powerful a combo with a one-hit severed tendon, though this change does dodge the Chansu + Senso + Slitthroat lock.

Like I stated above, it would be rare for Narsrim to get hit with tendon and 2 calcised legs, this game has been repeatedly stated it is balanced at omnitrans... so we have to think of resilience at trans in the factor

-----

I have updated the first page with the following:

Flay to be instantly cured by CharimsaticSmile (with the standard 3.5 second balance loss of Smile), and blocked by CharismaticAura.

Slitthroat's curing delay to be 2 seconds, and the smoking cure to be myrtle (of course).

Magnetize's effect on two handed weapons to be 75% of what it currently is, to balance the fact that only one channel needs to be locked to hinder two handers, but two need to be locked to fully hinder one-handers.

Ok add these to the list of possibles.

MandibleSever- PB jab causes the jaw muscles to sever and heals just as the Shatterjaw AL affliction 2. - Causes target to suffer acute pain when eating or drinking, resulting in 75 bleeding per thing eaten or drunk. Cured by applying mending to head. When cured, becomes the GashCheek affliction (which has a marjoram cure)

CollarboneCleave - PB jab slash head - the PB version of this cool power DislocateShoulder. (Heavy-Critical wounds) - by breaking the collarbone you prevent them from using the arm in any useful manner. When cured, the pain of the nerves reattaching causes them to swoon. (Arm break that causes stun + blackout on cure). Alternatively, it could cause blackout + sprawled or sprawled + stun on cure
The poison afflict rates are going to be leaning towards BM's/BC's I think Geb already explained why so I won't bother, except that 2 chances to afflict are better than 1. In this game a warriors job is to wear the victim down, so even thow PB's/AL's will hit wounds deeper and quicker, the BC/BM will add more poisons in the long run... so the poison rate should either:

1. be redone for 2handers
or
2. give 2handers the chance to afflict 2 poisons per strike...

Either one will even that out.

Stuff

So this 75% to magnetize will give them one channel open and a giant upgrade to magnetize our swords?? I am confused on this I think... but I dont see that being acceptable.. they are using only one channel... why give them an even bigger boost?

Hmmm, at 5 seconds it could be whorable, and people would be in trouble.. it should be maybe 3.5 seconds, or 4 tops...
Edit: (Severspine)

Remember that a damage weapon for an axelord would be 360 max without any other additions. With additions like auras, artifacts, and dwarven runes the weapon could easily go above 400. Now you said it takes 3 hits to kill someone who does not heal with a 200 damage weapon. Well with a 400 damage weapon, two simultaneous unblockable hits will outright kill the example you gave above.

2 poisons per strike will overpower Two-Handers, even with the change in slit-throat being pushed through. We are trying to remove the ability for a person to slit-lock a person with one attack. Just like the ability to lock a person with Hexes in one attack was removed.

Ok but something needs to be done with 2handed affliction of poisons... like you all stated

The part about the Helm was added in because it needs to be fixed. Right now it is doing more damage and more wounds than what it suppose to do, as was stated by Roark at a Warrior summit. So, since the information is about warriors (Though Two-Handers are being focused on), the Champion Helm being adjusted to its correct levels is a valid request in my opinion.

If it is over what it should be then yes adjust it but if this is a ninja-nerf without adressing the other OP arties including arti pets then I would have a problem with it

Oh and the part about the game suppose to be balanced at omni-trans is something I have never heard brought up by the Admin. I have only heard it mentioned by people who wanted to protect their abilities from being adjusted. Using the Omni-trans statement as a reason why a person was incapable of dealing with certain attacks. Even at Omni-trans, the double affliction rate on Two-Handed weapons would still allow for a slit-lock in one attack.

OK not sure if that was a player based thing or an imm quote... If estarra would clarify if this game is supposed to be balanced at omnitrans it would help alot to know... since I am not sure where I have heard this and thought this to be truth

I'd think the cure time for SeverSpine would have to be 4 seconds at least, likely 5, for it to be better than a normal paralyze - can others comment on this?

That is way to long, would have to be at critical and untargettable like a hack up or hack down and make it just as radom as it is to get a behead from a hack ... if focus body wont work. Or lesson the time of complete paralysis, stacking this with mantakaya will cause focus body not to work for the manta to start then a 5 sec paralysis then having to focus for manta at the end which would lead from 7-10 sec total down time

What if Flay did 100 bleeding when the afflict happened, but had no additional bleeding (like GashCheek)? Or if it did 0 initial bleeding, but +100 bleeding per tic if left uncured? That would give it a good reason for non-ent classes to not be able to ignore it.

I think 50 bleeding then 100 per tick or 100 105 110 115 125 135 145 165 185 in a process like that if unhealed..... this will most likely be healed in 1 tick tho so no worries about the stacking.

Lacerations is set at 100 bleeding, +100 per tic, whereas SeverArtery is 50 bleeding, +50 per tic.

Ok nice upgrade

I completely disagree with you about the poison issues, for the reasons I stated above.

Poison issues need to be adressed tho, a BM or BC will be afflicting alot more. Remember you are a druid so please listen to Geb and I on this issue, maybe 2 poisons is too much but we need to have some type of improved success rate or something

I personally perfer unique afflicts over copied ones - I also do not think CollerBoneCleave is necessary at all for PBs since they have SeverTendon already. The point was to give ALs something of the same power level.

Read my other idea for cracked kneecap... make it a severtendon and cracked elbow a sever arm tendon, what you have here : "DislocateShoulder (Axelord, replaces BreakArm, Heavy Arm Wound, Jab or Swing) - by seperating someone's arm from its socket, you prevent them from using the arm in any useful manner. When cured, the pain of the nerves reattaching causes them to swoon. (Arm break that causes stun + blackout on cure). Alternatively, it could case blackout + sprawled or sprawled + stun on cure. This is intended to be of the same level of ferocity as SeverTendon" Is like an uber severtendon and is way more than what sever tendon does. I am saying make this for both 2handers, Make collarbone a slash or a hack down, you have to remember the chance of hitting on a swing... this here will make AL's have a skill way more empowered than sever tendon... give them sever tendon cures for the kneecap... since there are ligaments at the knee.... and give us both this... it will again help pull the parrying off the head and legs. This by far outweighs severtendon tenfold and think about a claymore or a greatsword hitting your collarbone so deeply that it will cleave through the ligaments of the shoulder it hits. I also think this should be made a swing only skill not a jab since this is such an improvement to the skillset.


MandibleSever instead of Flay? Well, I don't like it as much for a few reasons: One, I don't see this as an afflict that you'd get from jabbing a sword into someone's face. Two, PBs would already be able to give gashcheek - having something that cured to it too seems kind of silly, and gashcheek without the bleeding part of it doesn't seem very interesting. Three, I vastly perfer unique afflicts over copied ones from other specs.

Well like we all know there are so many afflictions you can do with a sword. you want AL's to be so overpowered so far.... look at your Jaw afflict again: ShatterJaw (Axelord, replaces Scalp, Heavy Head Wound, Jab) - Causes target to suffer acute pain when eating or drinking, resulting in 75 bleeding per thing eaten or drunk. Cured by applying mending to head. When cured, becomes the BreakJaw affliction (which has a mending or arnica cure). This in itself causes 2 afflictions at only heavy wounds, an axelord can get heavy wounds in one swing. So maybe the mandible shouldnt be a cleave, but combine it to gashcheek and give PB's a double afflict thing too... I am not trying to be rude or offensive so please dont take it that way... I just know you dont fight as a PB but I think something and call it what you will should also give a two step heal.... nothing we have PB wise causes acute pain etc....

You misunderstand completely. Right now, Magnetize is a massive decrease to swing speed for one weapon, requires you to lock a channel to use it. You can lock up to two channels in this way. Thus, for a TK to completely slow down a 1-hander warrior, they need to lock two channels, making them lose just about all their psionic offense, since those are the two useful psionic channels.

However, against a 2-hander warrior, they only need to lock one channel to completely slow down the warrior, since the warrior only has one weapon that needs magnetizing. Thus, they are free to use the other channel for a dagger, or for other things. The suggestion is to make the magnetize effect weaker on two handed weapons to compensate for the fact that only one channel needs to be locked into this against 2-handers.

It is a nerf to Magnetize when Magnetize is used against 2-handers.

Ah ok, yeah I did misunderstand that then... kudos to that

:roll:

not three swings... 3 combos.

sorry, I didn't know ANYONE talked about individual swings for 1 handed weapons.

My 200 damage flails are the same as a 400 damage axe, exept that the flails probabbly do a bit more damage since they are hitting an allready wounded area.

1. HeftyAxe: (Axelord) The skill currently lowers weapon stats on the weapon it hits. This makes the skill worthless again non-warriors, and not even much of an impact on other warriors. Suggestion for this is the blow they parried was so hard that they are unable to parry for the following 5 seconds. This will allow the Axelord to swing and not be parried for atleast the next strike. Considering how low the proc rate is on this so far, this would not be an overpowering factor. The skill as it is now, and if the change is accepted, needs to beable to be seen by the Axelord

Stuff

The main problem with Heftyaxe and its Pureblade equivalent as they are is that when a 2-hander hit a parry from a dual-wielder, 90% of the time riposte fires instead of heftyaxe. But hitting a non-warrior parry is meaningless as they do not depend on weapon stats. I can see this suggestion is an improvement, but not by much. The same problem with riposte is still there. And against a non-warrior, they could simply web until the 5 seconds is passed.

Ignoring riposte, lengthening the stun time to Heftysword is good though.

The main problem with Heftyaxe and its Pureblade equivalent as they are is that when a 2-hander hit a parry from a dual-wielder, 90% of the time riposte fires instead of heftyaxe. But hitting a non-warrior parry is meaningless as they do not depend on weapon stats. I can see this suggestion is an improvement, but not by much. The same problem with riposte is still there. And against a non-warrior, they could simply web until the 5 seconds is passed.

Ignoring riposte, lengthening the stun time to Heftysword is good though.

Regarding the poisons, err, I'm the one who suggested the afflict rate for two handers be 1-((1-onehanders)^2) This means a 75% chance at 0 wounds, for those who don't understand the math involved. I fully agree that the poison afflict rate should be more - I am well aware that I am a druid and not a warrior, and yet that doesn't mean I can't math out the differences between one and two handers and get a good idea where the discrepencies are.

I know you are a druid, I am not saying you are stupid by all means. Just you dont fight as a warrior and dont realize all the misses and rolls we have to get past to even get a hit. So try not to be offended by what I say... I am not trying to call you an idiot by any means

If you look, SeverSpine was already giveable only by a swing. I think I'm going to recommend 4 seconds for the delayed cure and say that it shouldn't interfere with Mantakaya curing at all.
Remember that the point of this is to balance the classes, not overpower them to overcomponsate for their weakness up until now. If DislocateShoulder is that much more powerful than SeverTendon, then it should be toned down, not given to more classes. SeverTendon combos very nicely with other skills, such as SlitThroat, remember, though that combo is being nerfed a bit.

I missed that it was a swing only. And yeah I was worried about stacking it with manta, but what you are implying for dislocate shoulder I was considering it a "new" skill to add giving it to both classes will not hurt anything at all. Giving an AL a severtendon thing should be upgrading kneecap to a severtendon style healing. And try to get a sever tendon and a slit lock... it isnt too easy especially with the 2 hander poison afflictions.... remeber that the recovery time from an attack that hits for severtendon if you are using a wounding weapon avg 3-6 seconds.. which is plenty of time to have it damn near all healed especially since they sip allheale now a days to cure the first half immediately.

DislocateShoulder has the disadvantage of firing when your victim wants it to, not when you hit with it. It does not hinder running away either, until they decide to cure it, unlike SeverTendon. Rather than saying, "It's overpowered, give it to me!" can you please explain where it's overpowered?

It would be more overpowered then severtendon not over powered in every other aspect. Think about thisWhen cured, the pain of the nerves reattaching causes them to swoon. (Arm break that causes stun + blackout on cure). Alternatively, it could case blackout + sprawled or sprawled + stun on cure. Blackout and stun, compared to Severing the tendon of the leg just above the ankle is a vicious maneuver that will knock your foe down and prevent him from standing up. I would agree on making this a new skill for BOTH 2hander classes, but to call it a severtendon style is a little too much, severtendon is much weaker than what you propose, and if this will be only an AL affliction I will make sure to try my best for my envoy friends to have that Veto'd


Regarding changing CrackKneecap to a delayed regen cure - it's already a delayed regen cure. I'm confused by your request. CrackKneecap prevents stancing, it does not prevent running. CrackElbow prevents parrying. I don't see the similiarities you are drawing to SeverTendon and DislocateShoulder - could you please explain?

I am saying upgrade kneecap to severtendon like this "Cracking through the kneecap and Severing the ligiments that hold the knee is a vicious maneuver that will knock your foe down and prevent him from standing up" Make it react the same way as severtendon. If you say its already a delayed regen cure... isnt it already an AL version of severtendon so why are we making them another one for arms and not putting that to PB use also.. I swear if I hit you with like a Conan sword in you collar and slice through it your arm will not be working right I know it

All I am saying is do upgrades to crackelbow and crackneecap make them like sever tendon And either 1. ditch the whole dislocate thing or make it available to PB's as well

I agree with flay doing increased bleeding over time, but that's far more complicated to code, and only of minimal benefit because, as you said, it will only tic once or twice before it's cured.

Yeah it needs to have increased bleeding and they will normally cure it but they are more apt to cure a missing limb or tendon first letting some of the bleeding work to your advantage

Oh, and regarding your previous comments about the proposed CrushChest and CollapseLungs changes, at the moment, both of these afflictions require a second affliction (BreakChest/PunctureLung) in order to have a chance of occuring. This makes sense for BC/BM, but not for PB/AL, since the one handers can hit with both afflicts in one combo, and the two handers can't. Thus, the suggestion is to remove that pre-requisite from the affliction, but to composate for this change, move the wound back to critical. Thus, they are actually possible to use - requiring a bit more wounds (which two handers can do), but no setup afflictions.

But right now you never black out from collapsed lungs.... that is rarer than Jesus logging in and hanging out at the Moonheart Tree. Collapsed lungs would need to be addressed to make the blackout actually hit...and cause an endurance drain like puncture does (not sure if it continues in collapsed)



Regarding Scalp/Flay/ShatterJaw, I will point out that ShatterJaw can be cured in a single balance, since it uses mending and breakjaw can be cured with arnica. Your suggestion involved two afflictions on the same balance, didn't it? Both Marjoram cures? Remember also that BreakJaw is a light wound, and one that doesn't do very much. What's nice about it for BCs is that the attack that gives it also gives a stun, but it wouldn't do that for ALs.

You are sayin tho it causes damage and stack a double affliction. I am saying why not let them both (PB's and AL's) I mean if we are upgrading them to be on par with BM's that is...

If Flay is a two-stage afflict on the order of ShatterJaw, it needs to be instantly cured instead, cure to a light wound (such as SliceForehead), which I think would make the afflict far too weak, and defeats the intent and purpose of it.

I thought I was referring to hole in cheek one stacking with something else... what did I call it Mandible it had nothing to do with flay... flay needs the bleeding and the disfigure

If you believe this is detrimental and a two-stage afflict that does bleeding is needed, why not just leave Scalp as is then?

I actually liked scalp, but replacing it with flay (the disfigure one) is basically going to upgrade it a little, especially if it keeps its bleeding like scalp does

And no, I'm not trying to make Axelords "vastly overpowered" - remember that Axelords right now are FAR weaker than EVERY other warrior spec, including Pureblades. Why? I believe this to be largely due to their lack of useful mid-level afflicts, on the order of PB SeverTendon, BM Pinleg, or BC Knockdown and FractureSkull. Have you ever been an AL? If so, can you tell me how it differed from being a PB?

I fight AL's right now, and the ones who know how to use their skills are great fighters. I wouldnt try toe to toe with them too long... Take Lisarel... she can put a smack down on you in no time. That is why I am saying... work together on both of them. The are both two handers and they both have weighted weapons... that being so... it wouldnt be hard to have different names for the same afflictions....They are weak and need work but if this is called upgrading 2 handers I think some of these skills can be given to both skillsets.

On that note, could anyone who has been an AL and another spec please tell us what made AL so much weaker than the others?

Sorry, what? Not to nitpick, but this was my idea...
And yes, I like the idea too....