As I understand it, Guild and City credits were first implemented in Achaea as a device whereby Guild and City leaders were paid for their time and hard work. After all, these people are vital for the game being fun and for keeping newbies. Eventually, the bulk of these ended up being sold to the guild/city to raise money.. leading us to the situation we have now, where guild and city credits are justifiably felt to be the property of the relevant org, not the leader in question.

So. I'm not asking for an equivalent for orders in order to reward order leaders, as that would be daft. I'm looking for an equivalent to the current system, where when you buy OOC credits, and credits are given to city and guild, they are also given to your order. But why? You ask. And I respond: Doing anything with an order in Lusternia is terrifically expensive, and don't get me wrong - that's not a bad thing, in fact it's a mechanic that I really approve of....

...but...

Taking credits at 4500 gold, a new room in a temple costs 66 creds, before you've bought the marble and comms. To have any sort of speak and something responds device costs a comparable quantity. To really build a large temple, we're starting to talk quanities of cash that correspond to a significant amount of OOC money. (I'm not suggesting that Orders should buy OOC credits to build their temples, or even that they have to, I'm just attempting to put the cost in perspective.)

Generally, this is fine for a big order. The money ratchets up eventually.. but for smaller orders it really means that nothing can be afforded and little can be done.. and the ultimate consequence is a kind of stagnation which isn't terribly interesting for the players and must be devestatingly dull for the God.

Sooo... how about it? A nice little credit bonus to the order as well whenever someone buys...

thoughts?

Sounds reasonable to me. Would be a nice way for orders to raise cash/resources.

Hmm, I'd have thought orders had this already. I'm in favour of implementing this.

Is this true? I always assumed it was meant to be overseen and used by the organization, given that the uses of the credits show up in the logs.

Regardless, if all other organizations receive credits (besides clans), I don't see any reason why orders shouldn't.

Orders should use essence to build things, not gold *nod me*

hehehe.. that would certainly make life easier.

I'm in favor of both Aiakon's and Daganev's ideas. Orders should have the option of building a temple with gold (more of a members' activity), or the divine should be able to build some with his/her essence (more of a 'gift unto the people' kinda thing)...

Either way, I think temples should be more common

All I know is that in Imperian, organizations can't own credits and those are sent directly to the city leaders.

All I know is that in Aetolia I had a big argument with the new government and the god that I hated, and myself over if the credits were mine or the cities.

Some stupid reason I decided to give the credits to a third god who then gave it to the new city leader, instead of transing out my priest skills and having skills to play with there.

I'm somewhat hazy about this, but I'm pretty sure I remember Estarra actually changing from the traditional IRE format of the credits going directly to the leaders (Aetolia I know, and I guess Imperian) to having them go directly to an org. I could be wrong about this, though. Does anyone else remember this or am I crazy?

Aetolia added in the code to let them go to an organization right around the same time as Lusternia first went into open beta. I thought that was a global IRE thing, actually, but what would I know?

In any case, it remains true that when org credits were first introduced, back in Achaea I'm guessing, they were for leader salaries, and went straight to the leader. The coded change to allow org-owned credits is an indicator of, not a cause of, the evolution towards org credits being considered an org asset, and leader salaries becoming passé.

Well, coding caused the move. I was Sultan when 'leader' credits started showing up in city logs, suddenly everyone expected what, we leaders were told was our pay at the time, to be communal property. It was me not hosting big credit sells that was the major point of contestation when I was finally voted out.

The move had already been happening everywhere else, most notably in guilds. (Duiran, of course, didn't have it because Duiran, of course, didn't get them, because why would they give Duiran something just because every other organization got it? Then even after they started giving them to Duiran, it was years before they gave Duiran a way to access them.)

Well, I think leaders of orgs ought to get a 'salary' of some sort. Maybe not huge or anything, but something. I mean yeah, they're elected officials who volunteered to run, but so are elected officials in real life (OMG Nooooooooooo! RL comparison!). The president of the US gets a nice bundle of cash for being leader of the 'free world' for example.


But yeah, on topic: I like the idea of Orders getting credits like Guilds and Cities/Communes do. If for nothing else, to sell to raise money for things or for mortals to offer as prizes in Order related contests when the Divine in question isn't around or wanting to offer favors for it. Plus the whole building of temple thing.

...Priest Skills? Who were you there, Daganev?

I used some of the 'city' credits there for personal skills, but most went to sell to the city. It was never laid out what they were for in Aetolia. I vaguely do remember them being a reward for the leaders. Either way, they're definitely organization credits now.

As for leader salary, the Serenguard do that for the elected leaders. 5 credits per IC year. Not much, but it's a little something nice.

I shall make a suggestion.. do HONOURS DAGANEV while in Aetolia. Infact, just do it in every IRE game.

That would make some sense, in that case the god would be using solely his or her own power to craft a portion of the first world. Then again, it wouldn't be physical, temples would need to explode or implode if gods left to the void or died. Temples are usually a display of the followers of a god of their devotion to said god, which makes sense that it's comms and so forth they need to collect.

Why do I not remember a Priest by that name...

No matter!

They used to, most guilds stopped doing it, Ur'Guard still does it, well still did it until Asarnil became GM and then he may have forgotten or something. But the Ur'Guard GM, GA and GC each get 30cr per year. So, Chade.... don't forget!!

But Noola, it is the guild's decision to pay their leaders. So if you think the Aqua's should get paid, well just discuss it with the GM and GC and do it. It is not like guild leaders don't do any work. I mean just doing my Champion Trial for Ur'Guards who want to be knighted can take from 5-15 hours RL time in sparring, training and testing. Then I ship them off to the GA for their next trial (Ur'Guard's do not get knighted very easily)

Serenguard do it as well (for gm? or ga? one of them at least) last I heard, but no one else in the wilde. Oh, Celest has something with the brigade and emissary members as well.