Instead of balancing at Omni-trans, why not start the equillibrium at a lower area; but give a clear advantage to those who DO invest time/money into Transing? (The level at which we start this dependancy is up for grabs) That way, you can reach a respectable level of skill and still be able to compete with transfolk, but still be at a disadvantage fighting them. So the more "hardcore" players will still be able to win w/ more ease, but aren't powered enough to completely dominate more casual players.

talkan is only trans planar but he does pretty decent for what kind of skills he has. You don't HAVE to trans a lot of skills to be a good fighter-but, if you lower the bar to where Talkan would have the same abilities as a very high mighted player had before, than combat would be pointless and repetitive and there would be no incentive for people to buy more credits-and then lusternia goes bye bye

Can someone do some FocusBody tests for me? I would love it if one person at each skill level could time their focus so I can use actual numbers instead of making stuff up.

Inept: (In theory, 4.5)
Novice:
Apprentice:
Capable:
Adept: 3.3 seconds
Master:
Gifted:
Expert:
Virtuoso:
Fabled: 2.1 seconds
Mythical:
Transcendant: (In theory, 1.5)


Tumbling is honestly not THAT high, but I do think a descent focus time could use a bit toning down.

Only reason I haven't died more is because Furrikin get tumble for free. Everyone bitching about needing to get Tumble should reincarnate.

Just more to eat when Aiakon exterminates you all.... *shrug*

Talkan is decent for the skills he has. Still, he would never have a chance against any prepared geomancer who used chasm, because he would have no possible way to escape.

I don't think it's so much a matter of making it so that you can be top-tier with basically no skills, but it's a question of whether someone should have a basically guaranteed way of killing you because you don't focus body quickly enough/don't have tumble/whatever else. This was fixed for hexes awhile back to remove the permanent lock on anyone who didn't have focus mind.

I strongly believe that anyone who invests the time/credits into reaching high skill levels should have an advantage to reward them. I don't think there should be other options, though, which are perhaps more difficult.

One idea for tumble is to make it work kind of like focus body, where you can get it at a lower level, but it is slow, and speed increases as your level of environment increases. A Focus Body idea has been mentioned by Shorlen, and/or Mantakaya might need a look. Other than that, I think the skills are in good shape.

STARCALL WINGS ftw! unless we are talking about the paralysis lock thing, in which case I think chasm isn't the issue here!

Bah, forgot about those...well then for the sake of argument, pretend that Talkan is an Aquamancer...

The paralysis lock makes it even more difficult to evade, but that's a separate example.

It would certainly stop chasm... as would any number of other things... but it wouldn't necessarily provide a good avenue of escape, because of the various demesne effects which knock down flyers.

talkan has tumble

Most Aquamancers with staff could kill a geo in 10 seconds of not sipping (remember Geo's can not perform any act while using chasm). Also, depending on the specialties taken, most aquamancers have a means stopping chasm via various skills that move, or pacify the Geo.

The bottom line is that you HAVE to balance for top tier combat. Why? Because top tier combat has reached the pinnacle of the potential of these skills... the fighters know every way it can be used, and thus balancing the skills around their FULL potential, rather than balance it around people who have not as much experience... that's not good. If you must balance, you must ALWAYS balance for top tier.

Okay then, I suppose that was a bad example. My point was simply that EVERYONE should have some possible way of escaping chasm, or any other ability - not that I think chasm is overpowered, it's a pain to pull off, but that there are some people who are simply unable to escape it until they learn tumble. It doesn't necessarily have to be easy, but it should be possible



Does it have to be mutually exclusive? I don't see any reason why they can't be balanced for omnitrans AND balanced for adept. Adept aquamancy should be balanced against adept geomancy, trans aquamancy should still be balanced against trans geomancy. Why does it have to be one or the other?

Talkan is the most powerful class with the most powerful skillsets in the game



Show us how you would balance it for omnitrans AND adept?? I don't see how that is possible. But it needs to be balanced out at Omni. If you want to fight at less than omnitrans, which we all do. Be prepared for things to not always be even when fighting against an omni. People didn't invest to become omnitrans just so they could be on a level playing field with adept skill users. And trust me I am not omni-trans, I am far from it.

I do not mean that a person at adept should be balanced against an omnitrans. I do think that a person with all adept skills should be even and balanced against a person with similar adept skills. A person with all trans skills should be balanced against a person with all trans skills. Also, I think a person with trans skills should not have an unavoidable instakill against people with lower skill levels, but they should definitely have an advantage.

I think skills should be balanced based on roughly similar levels. Don't give an adept level skill that can only blocked by something at high mythical, instead try to insure that the skills are balanced at each level.

Before I get tons of responses, I know this will never be perfectly done unless all skills are exactly the same, but it's the way I think we should think about things when we're considering balance.

Note that I never said balance at omnitrans... I said balance for top tier fighting... aka: Let the best fighters decide how to balance, because they actually know their skills, limits and potentials. Putting the responsibility of fixing skills in anyone else's hands is not good, because those people do not see combat as the best fighters see it.

Adept Geos and Adept Aquas ARE balanced...they're the same (Master specializations)

Tri-trans warriors with no other skills have a pretty nice advantage over tri-trans with no other skills anything else.

no, no you shouldn't. If your fighting a geomancer, in his demense, by yourself with no way to get out of chasm-then you SHOULD die to it

the existance of tumbles makes all timed instakills completely worthless.