... that makes my comment wrong how? It takes twice as many WSCH to kill things, but you get four times the number of chances...

Three seconds with 280 speed hammers as a human paladin.

And for those who say Numen is beyond awesome for damage reduction, it's really not. It only lasts about 20 seconds and chews up power like no other.

How many times does this have to be repeated?

The math is exactly the same. 2 out 2 is the same as 1 out of 1. Where do you get four from? Its faster, yes, but the amount of damage is much much lower.

Ah, okay, so three hits for every one, and need two WSCHs to kill some things. So, only 50% better, not 100% better in that regard.


Numen lasts 45 seconds from what I was told (I assume info given by the Celestine Envoy about his own skills is accurate). It takes 32 seconds to recover 4p. Therefore, numen is a permenent (though expensive) buff if you need it to be.


You don't seem to get it...

So, assume a creature has 10,000 health. Assume a warrior can hit it for 350, and a mage can hit it for 1,000. The warrior hits twice every 3 seconds, the mage hits once every 4 seconds. A WSCH from either kills it in one blow, and the warrior gets 8 chances for this every 12 seconds. The mage gets 3 chances for this every 12 seconds.

Now assume another creature has 20,000 health. The warrior now needs two WSCHs, and the mage still only needs one. The warrior has 8/3rds the number of chances as the mage to get these. Therefore, probabilistically, the warrior is still better off than the mage.

Even if a warrior and a mage have equal DPS, the damage increase from a WSCH changes things a lot. If a warrior just barely kills something, and a mage does three times the creature's maximum health, the thing is just as dead. The number of critical hit chances is very significant, and warriors get 8/3rds as many of them as non-warriors do.

I get it, its been explained atleast 5 times now. You can go read the other threads on it. Your twice/once comparison is just faulty.

That assumes that the warriors wsch kills the creature. It just seems like a case of horses for courses, warrior critical hits will never compare to the power of a mages but a mage won't get the number of hits a warrior can, against different mobs different things would be better, faster hits with more criticals but less power to the criticals are better and faster against weaker mobs and slower more powerful criticals work out better against more tanky powerful mobs.

The chances of getting 2 WSC hits in one 1 NPC is so rare that it is silly to argue that it should be that way. Unless you once again spend money and by crit increase runes.... you will most likely never get 2 WSC hits in on one mob.

Getting one in, that is going to happen.... so back to the point being 1 WSC is probably equal to 2x-3x that of a warrior WSC hit.... and of course... other classes NEVER miss. That in itself makes warrior bashing even slower.

That's fine and dandy, but besides the fact that getting criticals is hard you are forgetting ONE big factor in there

Warriors miss

While a warrior can hit faster than a mage he still hits weak and misses a lot. Say out of 10 hits the warrior misses 2 at least... that makes things much slower... Athana kills faster than Ixion because Ixion still misses


EDIT: Bah... just asume Ildaudid doesn't exist

Aha! So it was bulls.

Someone (Hiriako?) said that warrior accuracy was 95% when you specialized. So your accuracy here is way off. It's more like out of 20 hits you miss 1.

dont forget that missing takes 1/2 the balance time, so it would be equal to a mage missing 1/40 hits

Yea it was bulls a long long time ago, but it could be any mob.

and Hiriako is wrong then, I miss sometimes 2 out of 10, which would equal 4 misses since I am a PB. Sometimes I miss less, sometimes more.... it is very random. Roark has tried to remedy this somewhat so you don't get like 6-7 misses (12-14 BM/BC) misses in a row.... but it isn't an exact 1 miss per 20 swings... that would mean I would miss 1 time every 40 swings, and that has never happened... I always miss at the very least 1 time out of 40 swings... even 1 time out of 20 swings...

I was complaining about missing when talking on GT/Attai aether once. Flac said she had just missed 6 times in a row (she IS trans, as am I.) There are several times when I've missed two in a row, many where I've missed up to five in a row. I don't like missing when I'm transed the skill, period. Players, sure, but not mobiles.

Ildaudid, it was me. I'm not wrong, here's the proof:

------------------------------------------
| Hammer Hits: 21591
| Hammer Miss: 1123
| Hammer Accuracy: 95.055%
| Morningstar Hits: 11
| Morningstar Miss: 0
| Morningstar Accuracy: 100.000%
| Bonecrusher Accuracy: 95.059%
------------------------------------------

I've done this for every level since 70 or so. The accuracy is -always- within +/- .5% of 95%.

It's not going to be one miss every twenty swings. It's going to be approximately 1/20 swings that you miss, on average.

But most people don't care about how often they miss over a month... they care how often they miss on the one mob they are trying to kill before all their corpses decay and they have to go to school.

If warriors didn't miss, it would not make them insanely powerful, it would make them warriors, that don't worry about missing mobiles. (at the trans level)

Explain how this would be OP though? Do you think all warriors if they never missed would change to flails, claymores and broadswords??

I mean the damage they give out is based of STR and the damage stat on the weapon? So how would it make it OP? And how do you call something for bashing PvE OP? It wouldn't be like they hit every time they swing at another player?

Dag, explain more why please??

i.e. I agree with the author of this thread. Missing at trans is silly.

OMG what was in my Frosted Flakes this morning I swore it said you should miss.... bah!!!

Ildaudids drunk :/

Estarra! Gives us our no miss at trans! Daganev is always right!

I hates capitalist warriors:
Explanation
For the low-leveled, it sucks major a**.
For the high-leveled, it is much much much faster.
Also, apparently warriors generally need more credits for competence.
*mutter

EDIT: Level 63 Aslaran still having a little trouble with rockeaters (need to sip/shield)...normal at all?