You all think conflict quests were turning away novices? Try this on for size:

I login to my paladin, see a page on, and ask how she's doing. Check guild status, see she's been around for 6+ hours of gameplay. Get a GNT aether asking where she can learn lessons. I ask and find that NOT A SINGLE PERSON greeted or introduced her to the guild. FOR SIX HOURS. You say raids don't last long? How do they last SIX HOURS then? Why? Pointless raiding and defending, and all the squires were too afraid of being DF'd or kicked out for not defending to attend to a novice. Usually after six hours of gameplay, a paladin novice has acquired: a full set of leather armour; two shortswords; the introductory skillset; a guild mentor; demonstrations on skill usage; information about Newton's. This person knew how to kick and punch. That's about it. Didn't even have circle/pentagram.

This is completely unacceptable in my view.




Don't take this the wrong way, but that is excrement. On all three of my characters, if there is a raid, I get yelled at, harrassed, poked, prodded, and threatened until I go "help defend" which usually consists of dying repeatedly until I get sick of it and logoff.



I rest my case in the forcing to defend department.

The mentality between "raids" and "conflict quests" is vastly different. I remember people taking breaks from the conflict quests all the time to go help a novice for a while, then come back and keep helping. Yes I know the sea quest was completely unbalanced, but I've experienced both sides of it and it was very rare that every single available person in a given guild would completely ignore a novice for so long just to help complete whatever part of the quest needed to be done.

Seriously, novices are where we attract new players. You want new cities to come out? We need a larger playerbase. You want more guilds? We need a larger playerbase. You want your guild to do well? You need more active members.

So in case I haven't been blunt or clear enough, novices >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else, from both an IC and OOC perspective, and "raids" and "defending" are far too high on everyone's priority lists because they are currently the ONLY mode of conflict available that have any potential effect, and many of the younger players are being intimidated/browbeaten into "defending".

I will merely close by quoting one of the squires: "Heh, I'll be up in a moment, if for nothing else than to be a meatshield for the bigger fighters".

I'm not going to force people into defending. However, if you're above level 50 and somewhat competent, I'm going to guilt you if you're not on Celestia when Magnagorans are killing angels.

Sometimes if you're raiding on another plane, it's made even harder to go help a novice. Am I supposed to yell TIMEOUT! to the people I'm fighting, and go help a novice?

Keep in mind, I already help an average of 10-12 new novices a week, on top of being a mentor to about 7 or 8. I consider it to be pretty important. But it's true, when I worked on the conflict quest, I could take time out to go help novices. I can't do that when I'm raiding, and it would be frowned upon if I was helping in a defense and I had to leave. People would say they understood, but.... I get the feeling they would think the less of me for it.

edit: Forren has helped make my point, I believe.

I don't think -anyone- should be forced to defend or be punished and even ooked down upon if they choose to stay out of conflict.

So do you get people to defend your city/commune/whatever?

Reward willing defenders instead of punishing those who choose not to. Don't say your going to be giving out city/guild favour for defending just start doing it and people will catch on. You don't have to give someone a favour everytime they defend just every now and then.

I myself hate and detest group combat. Being that my first shoot at it ended up with me being killed twice so quickly by people 15+ rooms away I never had a chance to sip. So it's easy to see why people choose to stay out of conflict if they are just going to end up being meatshields. Tervis pointed out something that i've tried to get some Imperian leadership to consider that Novices are more important then -any- conflict in the game, without them Lusternia and any other IRE game would just cease having active players. The Guilds are responsible for keeping Lusternia around by making sure novices enjoy their time playing and should do as much possible to do that for them.

People are rewarded with favours when they defend.

Yea, I'm with Forren here. When I go raid I only take the Brigade. If you're in the Brigade, you're coming. That's why you join an army clan.

Some of the people in there don't have systems yet, and I'm always hesitant about taking them.

The only time you will get drafted is when we need everyone for a demon lord hit.

I don't expect people like Felandi to come and fight, but if you hunt anything bigger than rats or cows, I get irked if I die while people are happily bashing Aslarans/Krokani/Merians/gorgogs, etc. The way Reiha sees it, if you can take those on, you can help out a little with webbing or run when things get bad. You might not be a big combatant, but unless you're some pacifist or non-combatant who's doing some non-violence-orientated useful work, lend a hand? And I've never seen people disfavoured for not coming to defend, though there is one girl I really wanted to - she bashed her way to 80-90 level, ignoring ALL RAIDS (in defense), while I was still in my 50's and trying as hard as I could to help out. She didn't start to help out until she had got to the level she wanted to - if I tried that, maybe I'd be in my 90's now as well or even Titan

If you don't want to get drafted for defense, make sure you're helping out a novice if you can? People tell me that and I'm okay with it. (Or pretend to be AFK ) RP wise can't really say you're not a fighter of some sort if you are murdering sentient people.

As for raiding, I don't want/expect people to come if they don't want to, though I may beg a little. And I don't look down on anyone for saying no.

Serens have not in the past been pushed into mandatory defense. We have a large pacifist population at times and need to take this into account

Being changed.

I'm 80 yet I still can't fight cause I don't have a system nor any skills good for killing unless I can debate with the enemy or to the demon lord that to die in the name of the light than fine by me.

But still, I plan to make my character NOT to be a fighter, he wanted to settle down, have family, have kids, he'll let his kids do the fighting, not me, I'll support them with gold, a home and few equipment.

I do agree with Tervic, that Novices are far greater then any personal or group event. (Peter even ignored Viravian's appearance at the pool of stars when a novice come about)

There are times, if Peter finds a novice wandering the mountain, or he's running pilgrims up and happens to meet a novice at the portal, he'll inquire as to weither or not they've been helped or know where they're going. When he sent a tell to a novice aide about a Novice in the seren guard, this is what was replied.


That part that I bolded is not the first thing that should come from a novice aide. While yes, there are people who do reflex their novice greetings and instructions, a belief that they're always around, or always notice a novice shouldn't keep you from inquiring yourself. Remember, novices don't have the different channels coloured. GNT, CT... they look exactly the same as everything else when they first arrive and are easy to miss. (Which is why I'd like to see GNT defaulted to a bolder colour so it'll stand out to a novice) And yes, the novice in question is still around.

As for defense and raids.I can't say I've ever been pressured into helping with a raid or a defense. Truth be told, Peter is actually left behind when he does participate in a defensive manuever. He's never told who to follow, and when he does start to follow somebody, they lose him manually. It's gotten to the point where he's not even going to bother being a part of group events. He's sixty-seven.

Combat is far far easier to ignore than conflict quests.

There are many many good reasons for not joining in a fight.
Helping a Novice is one of them - especially if said novice is truly new to the game.

If anyone dared disvavour me for helping a true novice, because no on else was around, I would Issue in a heartbeat, and complain to support if that failed.

I'm sure that discouraging people from helping new players is not behaviour that the Administration wishes to endorse.


Conflict quests were a case where one person could grief a large segment of the playerbase. Quests once done were static, and while one side or the other was dominant would remain in effect for a long time... thus allowing people to not only adversely affect those currently logged in, but also those that would log in later.

Non-combatants are not expected to fight. But everyone is expected to help with the quests.

Raiding at least, requires continued sustained activity from the opposition to support it. Rather than one ultra-powered character doing the quest and then going to be happy that no-one that logs on for the next eight hours will be able to reverse it...


There really is no argument here Tervic.
If your novice wasn't attended to, it was because they were abandoned!
If you want to use the conflict as an excuse so be it, but basically it means your people got their priorities wrong!

That -IS- my argument. It's just that I notice people have an easier time putting a conflict quest lower on their priority list as opposed to combat.

And I don't even care that they went up to defend. It was more that a novice was left unattended for SIX HOURS of play time, and nobody was even checking in after they got back.

I repeat: they were DONE defending, ON PRIME, and DID NOT check in with the novice.

So pardon if the thread title was a bit of a misnomer, the real point is, far too many people don't put novice care high enough on their priority lists.

Ah, my apologies.
Yes... I'd be annoyed about that too!

I still remember a time when an undersec/sec was online, saying they couldnt help us with breaking a demesne because they were too busy training a novice.....

They were the only Geo online that had the skills to break.... and they weren't actually training a novice. They were mudsexing the novice in a manse.... Saying they were training them in the arts of psionics.... now... you may understand my feelings a little more, when a secretary says they are busy training a novice in a manse....

And yes I check to see if they were actually training the novice, I was using an invis cloak and gemmed. I also had access to this "nuetral private manse" so I checked to see. And my goodness what I saw, made me laugh so hard, yet so pissed at the same time....

Either way....

I like that many people are willing to immerse novices in the world of Lusternia right away, whether through just talking to them or even better involving them in events and efforts, but can we please do away with the preconception that newbies/novices equate to children?

Very few in my experience need to have their hand held as they are lectured painstakingly through the minutae of how to function in Lusternia, and the retention rate would be far higher in my opinion if novices were treated as valued members of a society right away. Whenever I've made alts I -despise- the forced introductions and lectures, and I've never experienced the same fervour for it in other IRE games. If new players need help and ask for it, that's different, but I think that forsaking RP to sit and 'train' newbies in boring mechanics is counterproductive, when you really want them to experience the world of Lusternia right away, and see what makes it unique to every other MUD out there.

It's also important to involve EVERYONE in events and efforts. Newbies aren't the most efficient investment, older novices or new guildmembers that haven't established themselves yet are the ones that should be given highest priority of attention for the overall health of the game, only then followed by newbies. If there is a raid going on, why not let the novices know about it and give them some (completely safe) optional task to contribute to it if they want to help? Maybe they can swim to the Isle of Light to make sure that sands are coming in in case of power loss, or they could be asked to report on the state of the supplicants, or something like that.

Meh, a random rant that I needed to get out.

I concur with Tervic. Novices come first. At least one person can pull back from defending/raiding and go help a novice if no one else is about. So there should be no reason a novice isn't helped. Even if you aren't a novice aid or sect. or anything of that sort, you can still greet them and tell them information. Just because its not your job doesn't mean you should not do it if no one else has greeted them or told them what to do.

As the Guildmaster referenced in this, I can say that this does -not- make me happy. Would you kindly PM me the name of this person so I can talk to them?

GNT is actually a bright white if you use the default colours, not the plain grey it used to be after stepping out of the portal.