Attack personal enemies (and the person it is crafted after (if its a headless one probably wouldnt work as well)) if theyre on the same continent? Not really controllable since you cant move em by the looks of it. Though I can see it being used against the novices, or newer players once they lose innocence so maybe just the person its crafted after.

Oh, yeah, ideas! Make it a stronger version of the griefing skill LastRites. Make it both destroy their corpse, and delay them being revived. If they would conglutinate or transmigrate or darkrebirth, they take ten times longer to do so. If they pray, it takes twice as long. Maybe also prevents their soul from being ressed, but that's likely too powerful. Gives a 50% chance of sacrifice not reviving them would be better Lasts until the undead minion is found and slain.


They wander randomly and do crud damage, and cost about 10p based on the level of the target.

Just a suggestion Shorlen.. no need to bite my head off..

I wasn't biting your head off I was just pointing out that they don't stay where they are, but wander aimlessly, making it rare that they are in the same room as an enemy of yours, and that even if they are, the unfortunately do very little damage. Sorry if my response somehow seemed harsh instead of informative

And you seem to think I dont know this, I do. The chance would be rare, yes. But hey, wouldnt it be a little better than what it is? But meh, I dont really know.

Is there even a point? I remember Estarra saying it's cool and needs to stay the way it is, or something to that effect. As a roleplaying, flavour skill. Except it's not being used, so I don't know about that...

What I think Nihilists need is a quite easy (and cheesy) way to kill, or at least gain advantage. Like Inquisition.
I also think that another annoyance is how dependant on speed bonus Nihilists are. Stack, stack, stack fast, otherwise you're going nowhere. But then again, I'm just an ignorant.

What about my suggestion, which doesn't change the skill, just adds on a "slightly" detrimental effect onto the person raised

Of course, you could also go the other way, and ask it to cause the raised person to lose less experience on praying or something, so it would be something you used on other Magnagorans to reward their death, which served the Engine, with sacred undeath, rather than something used to mock your enemies.

Actually, the corpse of a level 80+ person makes a nice device. 500 or so damage all few seconds, good bleeding.

Really? How often? 4 seconds? Do undead wander after they've been engaged in combat? Do they hit indiscriminately?

No extensive tests, really. Just played around with Dvyrus. Tested out spawn (which sucks) and a level 80+ raiseddead. Raiseddead was pretty nice and could've killed him if he didn't fight back, even with him sipping.

I feel the best way to utilize the skill is just something like that - raising allies.

Magnagora - city of necromancers, masters of cheating death through wicked means. Yet we got really inferior in that department. Half of our city can't do it at all. Celestians get a better deal with Sacrifice or Resurrect. There's Transmigration, Dark Rebirth (or whatever it's called).
Something is seriously wrong.

Edit:
To expand a bit on raisedead - what would you feel about it raising people in ghost form? Would take about the same time to go native form as it takes to pray, but they would be free to roam. If they run out of willpower in that time, they lose experience - just like with mana as a soul. They also could be killed again...

Extremely complicated, I'd think. Why not make it, "If someone finishes praying while there is an undead made of their corpse in existance, they lose no additional experience from the praying (only from the initial death) just as if they were immolated." Perhaps also make their animated corpse decay when they finish praying as well.

:shrug: Just an idea that seems simpler to me than trying to code in the ghostform concept, especially since the skill must always create an animated corpse that goes around and hits things, according to Estarra.

The only complaint I have with Sacraments is that the skillset start out mediocre... then get very good/almost OP much higher up. So people with limited lessons have a hard time with Sacraments. Yeah, and remember inquisition is very nearly trans.

There are worse skillsets for that. Look at Stag, with nothing useful until fabled, and dreamweaving, with nothing useful at ALL until expert. And then there's Acrobatics, with nothing useful until..... err..... yeah.

I agree. Most classes have a vodun obliterate they can use to kill someone regardless of how good their curing is. For Celestines, it's carcer inquisition soulless (eventually they will get unlucky with carcer and die). Mages have heartburst which, although easy to run from, will kill you if the mage gets to work at it. Geomancers have hunger in addition to that. All warriors get wounds, which are impossible to cure completely without a fullplate, and even then it's difficult. All you can do is slow wound buildup. The classes that don't have skills like these, which include Nihilists, Druids, and Wiccans, can only kill someone by beating their curing, and that's a significant disadvantage.

I don't get how you can list heartbuest as a "sure way of eventually killing" and not drudids when it's mathematically provable that heartbuest is slower than thornlash. Not that either will work by just whoring them....

I would say make Raise Dead an anti Rezz skill, since it costs power to do. Make it so the soul cannot be rezzed until the mob that was raised from his corpse is killed. But there should be a time limit in killing it, they should not be sitting around as a soul for 30mins + to get a rezz.... by that time they should have prayed. It would not change anything that the Divine did not want to change, it would make using raise dead actually decent for the power it consumes, it would make it so Liches can not complain as much about Lich being stripped from them and this would tone down how Celestians never seem to have to pray.

After seeing Forren at titan in 80+ hours, knowing that not all that time was spent bashing, it seems to me he didn't have to pray all that often. I am only guessing but I can pretty well say, if he did have to pray, it was few and far between.

Wasn't it 80+ days, not hours?

I like Ildaudid's idea. What if we gave it more flavour by saying that if raisedead is used on a corpse whose soul has not yet prayed, that soul is trapped inside the summoned mob until it is killed? You wouldn't be able to move while trapped in the minion, and anything you say ventriloquates through the mob. At any point you could pray and depart the fleshy prison to seek the mercy of the fates, which would just leave an empty minion behind.

Although this seems complicated at first glance, what would it involve?

Would that be too difficult to code?

Only if Lastrites stops people from liching.

Kthx.