I don't get how you can list heartbuest as a "sure way of eventually killing" and not drudids when it's mathematically provable that heartbuest is slower than thornlash. Not that either will work by just whoring them....

Burstvessels, which is 4 seconds, already slightly outpaces healing, since it bursts an average of two and health is 4 seconds and sparkleberry is 6 seconds. Factor in throatlock choke, and demesne stunning, and your definately guaranteed a kill if they refuse to run or shieldstun.

Wasn't it 80+ days, not hours?

Only if Lastrites stops people from liching.

Kthx.

I wonder why Raisedead wasn't turned into a "pet" creation device, where you are only allowed one loyal raised creature, and the abilities are thing such as order about, emote, and look through thier eyes, and being able to give and receieve items from them.

If you make a second one, the new on gets the abilities and the old one does what it does now.

Only if Lastrites stops people from liching.

Kthx.

I agree. Most classes have a vodun obliterate they can use to kill someone regardless of how good their curing is. For Celestines, it's carcer inquisition soulless (eventually they will get unlucky with carcer and die). Mages have heartburst which, although easy to run from, will kill you if the mage gets to work at it. Geomancers have hunger in addition to that. All warriors get wounds, which are impossible to cure completely without a fullplate, and even then it's difficult. All you can do is slow wound buildup. The classes that don't have skills like these, which include Nihilists, Druids, and Wiccans, can only kill someone by beating their curing, and that's a significant disadvantage.

Sipping is every 5.

Throatlock's chance to hit them while they have sip balance and haven't sipped yet is minimal. Choke doesn't hinder sipping, nor mask burst vessels in any meaningful way - I know my system treats a choke as if it was a burst. Demesne stun is one second - the chances of that hitting while you have sip balance but haven't sipped is again very trivial. If you are constantly sipping, you are doing so every 5 seconds. Demesnes hit every 10. After the first time demesne stun stops you from sipping, you sip the moment the stun ends, then again five seconds later. Five seconds after that, you are recovering from stun just before you regain potion balance, and can sip immediately.

Math!
0: 2 bursts, sip, sparkle = 0 total
4: 2 bursts, 2 total
5: sip, 1 total
6: spark, 0 total
8: 2 bursts, 2 total
10: sip, 1 total
12: 2 bursts, 1 sparkle, 2 total
15: sip, 1 total
16: 2 bursts, 3 total
18: sparkle, 2 total
20: sip, 2 bursts, 3 total
24: sparkle, 2 burst, 4 total
25: sip, 3 total
28: 2 burst, 5 total
30: sip, sparkle, 3 total
32: 2 burst, 5 total
35: sip, 4 total
36: 2 burst, sparkle, 5 total
40: sip, 2 burst, 6 total
42: Sparkle, 5 total
44: 2 burst, 7 total
45: sip, 6 total
48: 2 burst, sparkle, 7 total
50: sip, 6 total
52: 2 burst, 8 total
54: sparkle, 7 total
55: sip, 6 total
56: 2 burst, 8 total
60: sip, sparkle, 2 burst, 8 total
64: 2 bursts, 10 total
65: sip, 9 total
66: spark, 8 total
68: 2 bursts, 10 total
70: sip, 9 total
72: 2 bursts, 1 sparkle, 10 total
75: sip, 9 total
76: 2 bursts, 11 total
78: sparkle, 10 total
80: sip, 2 bursts, 11 total
84: sparkle, 2 burst, 12 total
85: sip, 11 total
88: 2 burst, 13 total
90: sip, sparkle, 2 bursts, 13 total
94: heartburst

So, technically, you're right. If a TK sits there for 94 seconds constantly attacking and doing nothing else, they CAN kill you "garunteed," but remember you aren't hindering their offense in the slightest during this time. Mathematically, this is a 94 second timed kill, but in practice, you'll NEVER pull this off

I truly applaud your constant efforts to make a factual and intelligent analysis of combat Shorlen, but you tend to forget massive aspects. Telekinetics can throatlock you, slowing your sipping/eatting down a minimum of 1s, and their demesne stun is not negligable, further slowing you. Several factors that TK's can do in the same balance as vessels need to be considered here.

So, yeah, nihilists A counter for sacrifice would be nice, since Celestines have a counter for Lich. Raisedead would be the obvious place to put it, as others have mentioned. There'd be sooo much whining though if someone who was raisedeaded couldn't be sacrificed for

It's 10p to raisedead anyone of combatant level, right? So, you'd need to recover your power after killing someone before you could raisedead them, giving them ample time to rush out and get sacced for.

Of course, it would only do anything on Prime and against newbies without conglut.

Judgement is a timed instakill that cost 5 power regardless of success or failure and is very easily disrupted and does not benefit in group combat if it fails.

Omen is a 3 power damage booster that helps in solo or group combat and if the person focus spirits, that's alot of mana down for you to consider wracking.

Inquisition is nice true, however you are speaking of something that requires 12 power and a 3 layered move with a timer to pull it off, hardly a trivial thing to do in a 1 v 1. It still works in group combat, but that would mean targetting a single person with 12 power while fighting the rest. The power and time would be better spent on damage and taking the other person out. (However if its a 3 v 1 and they inquisition you, well .... its a group gank against you alone)

If raise dead functions like you suggested, it is a one shot move that destroys the corpse (no resurrection) and prevents sacrifice until the mob is destroyed. This can only be pulled off while the person is dead and will always succeed unlike Inquisition.

Frankly I believe that instead of denying other orgs or guilds skills, something similar in nature should be available. Most guilds have either 1) a way to ress, 2) a great escape skill. Nihilist have ghost which is really good, though there are still issues with physical terrain impeding them which I hope is a bug. Vitae is all but a deathtrap off prime. Raise dead could be incorporated as a method of resurrection.

Well since it probable that it they will not make it so inqui doesn't strip lich, that point is moot.

Raise dead, 5p/1p : Raises a corpse as a mindless minion. The minion will be uncontrollable and will roam and attack as its AI dictates. Meanwhile the soul is being drawn back into the body and there will be a timer for the soul to reassociate with the body. Once the timer is reach, the soul takes over the body as an undead. The power cost should be lower than resurrection as there is a waiting period at which the corpse is at risk. 5p for people who do not have necromancy, 1p for people who have necromancy but neglected to put up lich or lost it.

This would be ok, except that lastrites totally stops this from happening also. Unlike Ressurect which only requires a soul, RaiseDead requires an actual corpse.

As for souls ... well there's lich.. (Oh and due to stat weight, the bonuses from lich .. are they stat weighted too? If so, they should be made non stat weight since I have heard problems about it (both bonuses and penalties))

Yeah lich is weighted not a straight stat increase (unless it was changed recently) which unfortunately is a problem for both night/daytime

Edit : Forgot to add, I still believe that no skill should strip/stop various forms of resurrection. But then that's me

I can agree with you, but like I said, I can pretty well bet that inqui would not be changed to make lich unstrippable. And we would be back with no reason to actually use raisedead.

Resurrect? You mean sacrifice. In any case, raise dead is good for Geomancers and trackers who have no way to come back to life besides vitae/conglutination. And fossilise and carrion prevents resurrect, but not sacrifice. Though sacrifice requires vitae which takes up 11 to 20 p to perform or have another person at hand to resurrect which takes another 11 to 20 p to perform.

I would say make Raise Dead an anti Rezz skill, since it costs power to do. Make it so the soul cannot be rezzed until the mob that was raised from his corpse is killed. But there should be a time limit in killing it, they should not be sitting around as a soul for 30mins + to get a rezz.... by that time they should have prayed. It would not change anything that the Divine did not want to change, it would make using raise dead actually decent for the power it consumes, it would make it so Liches can not complain as much about Lich being stripped from them and this would tone down how Celestians never seem to have to pray.

After seeing Forren at titan in 80+ hours, knowing that not all that time was spent bashing, it seems to me he didn't have to pray all that often. I am only guessing but I can pretty well say, if he did have to pray, it was few and far between.

(I love Loyen to death, but from what I have heard, she never has any suggestions in her envoy slots, and the last Necromancy update was due to Ashteru and Ethelon making the ideas.)

10 credits that this thread is either going to be full of flamming or closed pretty soon.