None of those people (yourself included) have been around for quite awhile, and Thoros hasn't been a nihilist for very long yet.

I haven't been a nihilist for very long at a time either, so I'm not going to pretend to have a better idea than you or anyone else about their skills. Still, on a case-by-case comparison, they don't LOOK as good, and most of the Nihilists I know who are active now and have been using them for awhile also agree that they are not as good.

I'm curious to see how well Thoros does as a Nihilist, at the very least if he is as good as he was as a Celestine, he can teach some people.

I also recall you saying how the furrikin and the faeling race are practically unkillable for nilhists torak

When Torak was a Nihilist actually fighting though, you could tumble off crucify, I think that was fixed, but they made them alot harder to kill... Now they can just keep rolling away.... so maybe it still holds true

Size has always been a problem and still remains it, but for the most part it was the 1 second rolls and tumble off crucifies that annoyed me the most. I could kill small races but generally speaking it is if they slacked off and didn't play smart. Also, no I haven't played for a while and either has Thor or Eiru but not much has changed from then far as the class goes. The only real change is if afflictions coming off in order and all that does is speed up how fast you should be killing someone. Everyone thinks every other class is better then theirs, and I am not saying Celestines don't have 1 up on certain aspects of guardians but the Nihilists also have benefits over them in other areas. Primarily hindering and afflicting whereas they have powerful skills like Inq/TH/vapours invest(counters our shackles) and seem to be more timing based. So in the end I think it balances out well. I fought a ton of Celestines and really have tried to look at it from both sides and personally I don't think there is the balance problem people make it out to be. Yes, Sacrifice is a pain in the ass but as far as I am concerned killing someone should never be about making them pray, as long as you win the fight you should be happy. Enough of this "I WANT TO MAKE THEM LOSE MORE EXP AND TRY TO MAKE PEOPLE MISERABLE" mentallity. As an end note - to aspiring Nihilists the class is not just a pick up and win class, it takes practice and dedication. You need to learn to work with what you have and when to do what. As I have offered to most Nihilists already if you want send me logs of you fighting and I can give you tips based off them.

If I weren't straight, I'd ask you to marry me.

This has been a very rewarding read.

Good Genevieve! Yes on a totally seperate note quit trying to grief.. if you get a Magnagoran slain on prime.. you dont HAVE to grab the corpse nor should you TRY to snatch it as fast as possible.. and before slaying loyals make sure you give time for them to be called back.

All I can say is this, I have been both Celestine and Nihilist- I found that I was a deal harder to cope against as a Celestine, period. No, I am far from being top-tier, granted, but I feel that it is simply easier to become efficient as a Celestine.

Nihilists require more skill, but on the total I do not think that you can't kill with them... it's just a tad harder to pull off.

I really do feel that all classes can kill, it is a question of how original you are, and how you deal with combat in general... with Nihilists I found that things -must- go through a certain pattern or else you won't kill anyone...maybe I'm wrong, I think that Murphy proved however that Nihilists can be very efficient.

True dat.

If sacrifice requires a corpse, it's retarded. It's exactly like resurrection, only with a death involved.

Many can tell you Nihilists kill.. yesterday (IC type) I used sacrifice 3 times.. it is probably the most difficult instakill we have but with the right practice you -can- pull it off.. however Nihilists are all very luck based.. the right tail afflictions can royally screw you.. while someone who does the proper curing can stop alot of it.. and sacrifice is also the least likely to succeed even if you DO get it set up.

But I have wracked my fair share... so I know we can kill in no way am I saying we arent able to kill I am saying how can we be more on par. Whoever said it was right we tend to have a set order that we HAVE to do.. our options are wrack damage soulless or sacrifice.. some far easier than others..but at the same time we have nothing time based and I would kind of like a timed kill. Judgement is great under vapors which we dont have but would be interesting to see the skills that develop to try to make it work for Nihilists. Would adore a judgement skill (come on Estarra...) if you do...

P.S. Yay face thingies!

Celestines are definitely easier to play than Nihilists. Whether that means they're more powerful I'm not sure.

The second part was replying to your words "All warriors get wounds, which are impossible to cure completely without a fullplate, and even then it's difficult."

Trueheal makes that statement a fallacy- They are not impossible to cure completely regardless of fullplate.

With parry and stancing and the judicious use of web, you can slow down a warrior enough to get your wounds cured to a managable point too.

So basically you have 2 rezz skills.... Oh noes, the tragedy it must be to be a Sacraments user with 2 rezz skills!

No, it's just pointless. It's a clone skill in the same skillset above resurrection, only worse.

Then why dont you say something more along the lines of.... "Yeah 2 rezz skills in one skillset is a little insane, we should actually only have 1 and make something else real cool to replace the other one."

extra instakill plz, I want a fourth one

I could deal with that as long as it is around the same pre-requisites as wrack or something.


edit - Yeah I want more than 1 instakill too Especially when people complain when I use my instakill.

Because that's what people were trying to do. Changing sacrifice would be fine. Making it a clone skill would be absolutely pointless.