Held in the Forum of the World Library with Miska, the Mistress of the Forum as moderator. I'll be posting the log of the debate here.

Did it involve Dragon Ball Z gags? Otherwise I'm not interested.

Actually, Elostian went super saiyan at one point when someone compared him to Morgfyre, but it didn't really have anything to do with the debate.

I actually believe they used Kai earrings, since the condition seems rather permanent.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Very well then."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "We shall begin, first let me explain how this will work."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "First of all, for the duration of this debate, there is to be no hostility, all may state their opinions as they wish without fear of repercussion. Those who do not abide by this rule shall find themselves removed from the forum."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum smirks to herself, trying to look clever.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Second, I shall explain the nature and structure of this debate, so that all may argue their views in an organized manner. I will state now that these rules appear like a game, and a good debate is indeed like a game of chess, where one will need to play one's major pieces at the correct time."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "First, Neerth here will start with an
opening argument. This argument will provide his personal views concerning the existence of Elostian which will provide starting material for the Debate. After he has finished this, the debate will start. At this point, no one is to speak without having been indicated, otherwise we will soon have a chaos on our hands."

3219h, 4304m, 3842e, 10p exk-honors miska

There is no such person, I'm afraid.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "When someone wishes to speak, he or she must raise his or her hand, after which I will designate who will be allowed to speak. You may say whatever you wish in response to the topic at discussion, but the intelligence and strength of your arguments will determine how quickly I will return the turn to you in future."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "From this point on the replies must concern the topic at hand, you may refute or support this with your own arguments. You may of course attempt to shift the point of discussion slightly onto different aspects of the larger discussion as part of your reply, this is part of the art.

However, as the subject switches replies to earlier topics will become
irrelevant and as such they will not score you points, so to say."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "When you are done, indicate so and I shall allow someone else to speak in reply to this. If I feel your reply takes too long or your argument goes on beyond the point of neccesity I shall first indicate so before bluntly changing the speaker if this has no effect."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "As such, it is important to always have arguments to refute or support the topic at hand, even if you raised your hand when some different topic was under discussion. If you do not feel you may add anything to this part of the discussion you may state so, in which case I will designate someone else to speak."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Please also keep unnecessary emotions to a minimum, so all may easily follow the arguments."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Before we start, are there any questions?"

You say, "What is to be done if someone's response is taking to long after
they've been called on?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "As I said, I will designate someone else to speak. Breaking of my rules will result in your removal from the forum."

You say, "Understood."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "We have now begun the debate on the nature of the existence of Lord Elostian. All topics that concern this question are fair for discussion. Neerth, please commence."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel nods to Miska and steps forward to the stone lectern, a professional expression on his flat face.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "I'll start by emphasizing that I am not presenting a definitive answer to the nature of Lord Elostian's nature. Agree with me if you find my arguments convincing; I in turn hope to hone my own beliefs."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Without preamble, I proffer my thesis: Lord Elostian is a God of unique nature, unlike any other God who was come before."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "In support of this thesis, I aim to argue that He fits no category of Divine."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Some categories are easily dismissed. Elostian is not a Primal God, for example, as He was not created by Dynara in the time before time."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Neither is He a Soulless God. Indeed, being as He is the merging of two Elder Gods who Themselves were not Soulless, it can be said that Lord Elostian has a surfeit of souls."

Your mouth turns up as your face breaks into a smile. (I thought it was funny!)

The Divine voice of Someone powerful echoes in your head, "Please do not emote."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Elostian is not an ascended mortal, hence He is not a Vernal God; He is not confined to a creche, a cosmic plane, and hence he is not a 'half-formed'."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "It remains to eliminate, one by one, the various Circles of Divinity."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Lord Elostian is not a God of the First Circle, as He has not taken a mantle of leadership over other Gods."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "He is certainly not a warrior in essence and thus does not belong to the Second Circle."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Gods of the Third Circle are characterized in part by periods of deep meditation, lasting sometimes far longer than the lifespan of you or me. However Lord Elostian came into being less than three years ago, thus this Circle is ruled out as well."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Gods of the Fourth, Sixth, and Seventh Circles are concerned primarily with physical creation, of land and cloud, of plant and animal, and of Great Spirits. Yet Elostian manifests no particular drive towards creation."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "It remains to discuss the Fifth Circle. And indeed, upon its face it seems that here is where Lord Elostian belongs: a studier of mystery and paradox, a discoverer of the realm's complexity."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "However."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "All previous Fifth Circle Gods were Elder Gods, and I assert that Elostian, having come into being in the past three years, is not in fact an Elder God, descended from Elders though He be."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "In fact it can be argued from His appearance that He is not even a Star God."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "So I conclude by saying that He is perhaps a Fifth Circle God, but not of a kind ever seen before. Therefore He is a unicum, a Divine of completely unprecedented nature."

Neerth nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Please note that this argument was prepared beforehand, not all are to be this long, or we will still be here months from now."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Daxera, please speak."

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone says, "Similarity can not be generalized to just one characteristic unless your thesis is based upon that characteristic alone, which it is not. Lord Elostian may not belong to a certain type of Divinity, but that does not mean that They are dissimilar in other ways. For example, He and Lord Lacostian both support gaining knowledge and experience."

Daxera nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Yes, Genevieve?"

You say, "While it may be true that Lord Elostian is similar to other Gods of the Fifth Circle, the primary problem is that its his dissimilarities that make one wonder whether or not He belongs in this circle."

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone raises her hand.

You say, "And also there is a lack of appropriate amounts of information to try to come up with any sort of definitive answer. For instance, while it's true He has only existed for three years and thus has not meditated for a lengthy period of time, who is to say that He will not, at some point?"

You nod your head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Neerth tells you, "Ooer, nice one."

Anisu d'Illici, Emissary of The Just raises her hand.

Somebody says, "Daxera."

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone says, "I agree that Lord Elostian may be different from all the other Divine in that He does not belong in any Circle. In that way He may very well be dissimilar. Thus I am moving on to other characterstics, which are just as important. Just because an apple and an orange
are different colours does not mean that they are not both round."

Daxera nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Anisu."

Anisu d'Illici, Emissary of The Just says, "I wish to point out that the third circle gods where only labeled so because the others did not understand them, but that many of them where busy about searching knowledge within, where the 5th sought knowledge from the out. By this I believe that Lord Elostian is a mix between those two circles and is so perhaps a new circle yet to be created."

Anisu nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Genevieve."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel raises his hand and tail.

You say, "I think that the current discussion of what circle Lord Elostian belongs in belies the real question at hand. What circle a God belongs to is really just a designation given arbitrarily by the other Elders, which they thought befitted their natures."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Neerth."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "To interject, this is by no means meant to be a private argument. Others should work up the courage to speak as well, I promise that I do not bite."

Incabulos chuckles long and heartily.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Interestingly, even the phrase 'by the other Elders' is counter to part of my contention, which is that Lord Elostian is not even an Elder God at all. The Elders were created in a time before time, while the Enigma came into being during our own memories to say the least. This alone qualifies Him as a God unlike others."

Neerth inclines his head politely to Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Aqua Initiate Quisite raise his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Yes, Quisite."

Aqua Initiate Quisite says, "I agree with Lady Genevieve previous statement, some of the nature of lord Elostian will require more time to be understand, specially regarding the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh circles, since He only come into being three years ago. At the moment, I believe the easiest way to understand Lord Elostian nature will be to compare it with His Predecessor Nature, Lord Elcyrion and Lord Lacostian."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Quisite nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Genevieve."

You say, "Well, it seems to me that the whole is more than the sum of its parts
at times."

You say, "For instance, Elcyrion was a pacifist, but Elostian is not."

Lord General Vanthan Tregon, Hope's Sentinel raises his hand.

You nod your head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Saaga."

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone says, "I have read that He Himself has said that He is more than the sum of His parts. Though I think that He truly is very unique, very different from both Elcyrion and Lacostian."

Saaga nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Vanthan."

Lord General Vanthan Tregon, Hope's Sentinel writes, "The definition of an elder god might possibly be erroneous or outdated now as it was made before the coming of Lord Elostian. One could make a deduction that since Lord Elostian was made from the merging of two elder gods, he himself is an elder god."

Vanthan nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel raises his hand and tail.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Daxera."

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone raises her hand shyly.

Anisu d'Illici, Emissary of The Just raises her hand.

Ays Ilydor Lyreth, Felandi d'Erlette-Dragmar raises a hand.

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone says, "Lord Elostian has come from the merging of two Divine, whether He is Elder or not I still find irrelevant as His type of Divinity has already been proving as something that He does not have in common with others. However, returning to His sources, Lord Lacostian and Lord
Elcyrion, He is not so different. Everyone will be unique in their ways, just as every snowflake has a different shape, but they're made from the same substances just as Lord Elostian has the same sort of ideals just a different shape."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "To summarise, there is difference of opinion concerning the application of a circle to Lord Elostian, but most agree that because of His age these rules might not apply to Him. Aside from this, there is discussion concerning whether He even classifies as a star god and that He is in fact more like the primal gods of old, if He is taken at face value."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Neerth, do you wish to reply?"

Neerth nods his head affirmatively at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "My apologies."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "I interrupted Daxera, do you wish to continue your argument?"

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel listen daxera.

You tell Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel, "Ouch."

Neerth tells you, "Dfgkhjrtkh."

Neerth tells you, "I blame Miska."

You tell Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel, "Voice of elostian no talk
so good."

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone says, "While this is slightly irrelevant now, I'd like to argue that as for pacifism, Lord Elostian is similar to Lord Elycrion and Lord Lacostian. He encourages us to find different ways to handle solutions. The most common way is to fight. What else can we do?"

Daxera nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone says, "Thank you."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum nods her head emphatically.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Neerth?"

Aqua Initiate Quisite raises his hand.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "I've argued that being descended from two Elder Gods does not make Him an Elder God, any more than being born to two merian parents implies that the child must be merian. Now I continue my argument by saying that neither is He much like the Primal Gods of
old, in fact. As we've seen He certainly is far from Soulless; and it has been observed that He is respectful of us shards, and thus differs in inclination from the Primal Gods as well."

Neerth nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Saaga, do you wish to reply?"

Lord General Vanthan Tregon, Hope's Sentinel raises his hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone says, "I agree with Neerth. Being merged from two Elders, He may be rather different, still. But are we deterined to categorize Him under some circle?"

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone says, "Determined, rather."

Saaga nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "I shall not give those who have not spoken a chance to add something, though I shall return to those who have already raised their hand. Felandi, please speak."

Ays Ilydor Lyreth, Felandi d'Erlette-Dragmar says, "Lord Elostian's nature apparantly remains a mystery even to other Gods, as His reasoning in result of the joining appears to work in ways even They have difficulties to comprehend. The normal terms mortals use to describe the Divine may be outdated when Lord
Elostian is concerned. I belive one way to gain insight to who He is would be for us to stop looking for inspiration in Lord Elcyrin and Lacostian as They are now a part of Him, not His nature. Instead Lord Elostian should be looked upon from His actions and teachings as they are now."

Felandi nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Quisite."

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone raises her hand.

Aqua Initiate Quisite says, "Lord Lacostian major aspect is knowledge for knowledge sakes. Elycyrion major aspect is Diplomacy, solving problem without conflict. Thus I believe Lord Elostian Aspect is knowledge, but the knowledge to solve the problems in the basin, specially the taint. Thus Lord Elostian provide another path to solve the taint, the scholarly path, with the understanding that elimination of the taint is not the only path, the taint could be controlled."

Aqua Initiate Quisite says, "I believe the categorization of the Gods, is rather difficult to use, because since from the example of The come into being of lord Elostian, it is proved that the gods are still susceptible to change."

Quisite nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "I feel the subject under discussion is fading a little. Let us return to an earlier point and please only reply to arguments stated by the one who went before you. It was stated that it is unclear what kind of Deity Lord Elostian is, not primal, nor soulless. How may anyone compare him to others to cathegorise Him in this case? Any arguments?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Xaqari, would you like to reply to this?"

Xaqari shakes his head.

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone raises her hand shyly.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Xaqari nods his head emphatically.

Anisu d'Illici, Emissary of The Just raise hand.

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother says, "I Think that in the same way that we cannot assure that Elostian is an Elder God due to the combination of two elder gods, we also cannot assume that he possesses A soul or the souls of both of the gods from which he was produced. I don't believe that he is soulless, but closer
to a shard than the rest of the Gods, due to his creation from them."

Xaqari nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Very interesting, does Elostian even have a soul?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Incabulos?"

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "I'd like to say that perhaps Elostian is similar to Lord Morgfyre. It's been discussed before, but really, the similarity is striking. Suppose Elostian was created from two Gods with opposing ideals... would he not end up as twisted as Morgfyre?"

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Alianna, Maiden of the Mists raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Anisu, would you like to respond?"

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Anisu d'Illici, Emissary of The Just says, "I feel at the loss for a moment as to the terms elder gods, as I understand the elder gods are what the half-formed called the primal and stargods. Lord Elcyrion still fits the reason why the half-formed named Them so, His form is so matured He does not need to remain in
a creche. The question of Him being a Stargod raises is answered by what is a stargod, a god in the prefered form of Dynara, Lord Elostian no longer has this so I would say no. I would also say he is not a Primal god for the very reason He was not created by Yudhe to be this way. To me he would be a new form of elder god. And to the Lord having a soul, I would certainly say yes as he does not show the destructive nature of the handmaidens of Magnagora. And indeed there is Morgfyre, and Incabulos might be right that it has to do with the personalities of the gods being compatible to determen their sanity."

Anisu nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Lord General Vanthan Tregon, Hope's Sentinel raises his hand.

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "My questions are just meant as illustration, they are not part of the actual debate, replies must be made to the person before you. I understand there is some confusion about this."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Vanthan."

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone raises her hand shyly.

Lord General Vanthan Tregon, Hope's Sentinel writes, "If a child is born of two merian parents it does indeed have to be merian. The scrolls on this matter support this claim. Just because they went through the portal of fate and were changed does not get around the fact that that child had to be merian at some point. Using this course of logic, them one once again could surmise that being born from two elder gods does indeed make him an elder god. The scrolls say the only exceptions are children with one human or if one has a changeling parent. If ihe were the combination of lets say a primal god and an elder god it might be different but it's two elder gods. Now using this he could be placed in the fifth circle or have a circle entirely to himself, I would go with the fifth circle if he is indeed an elder god like I believe. In regards to soul or souls,
I would say that he does have two souls or at least an amalgamation of one larger combined one. Lord Morgfyre in essence has one soul but has consumed the souls of others. It doesn't mean he has more than one soul just that his soul has absorbed many others whereas Lord Elostian is the merging or coexistance of
of two souls."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Indeed, tossing in earlier arguments as well. Alianna, would you like to reply to the topic of the possible correlation between Lords Elostian and Morgfyre?"

Alianna nods her head emphatically.

Alianna, Maiden of the Mists says, "Incabulos pointed out that if Elostian was created from two Gods with opposing ideals, he could be similar to Morgfyre. Even if that was the case, they both come to exist in different circumstances. Elostian was more of an 'accident', I suppose. Even with two opposing ideals,
Morgfyre devoured to become what he is. Elostian did not."

Ays Ilydor Lyreth, Felandi d'Erlette-Dragmar raises a hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Please stop all of this magic. It is very noisy."

3102h, 4304m, 3842e, 10p exk-look miska

This tall crystal lucidian bears a stern expression on her face as she surveys
the forum, keeping an eye on all that enter. Her body is made up from a milky
crystal that shimmers softly as she moves, covered largely by a set of blue
robes that are embroidered with a variety of strange symbols. A large staff
lightly rests in her hand, the bottom of which has been carved into a small
sphere so that it may be rapped into the ground to call crowds to attention.
Miska, Mistress of the Forum appears to be extraordinarily strong.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Daxera, would you like to reply to this?"

Daxera nods her head emphatically.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Under zynnatrig."

Neerth gives a pained sigh.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum gives Neerth the once-over, eyeing him suspiciously.

You tell Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel, "Wha?"

Neerth tells you, "I'm going to die now."

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone raises her hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone says, "Lord Elostian and Lord Morgfyre, whether They come into existence through the same means or not, teach different ideals. Even the fact that Morgfyre disguised Himself as Hajamin is different from how Elostian sticks to the truth. I say truth because knowledge is composed of facts, of what is solid. Lying, stealth, etc. waver. While Lord Elostian supports learning I don't believe He'd support dressing up as someone else. That in itself shows that Morgfyre is concerned with more than just knowledge thinking outside of the box. Manipulation seems to be a large influence. Their actions and teachings are different, thus They are different, no matter where They come from."

Daxera nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Let us hear what the starter of this particular topic has to say about this, Incabulous, would you like to reply?"

Incabulos nods his head emphatically.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Thank you. I'd like to argue perhaps the opposite of what Daxera is saying. Where Elostian came from does in fact define who he is, as well as his teachings and ideals. Let us assume hypothetically that Lacostian was merged with Fain instead of Elcyrion. It can be assumed that He, the resultant god, would be bloodthirsty and crave knowledge recklessly."
3102h, 4304m, 3842e, 10p exk-

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Having those ideals would he not seek to, perhaps, purposefully consume other beings in a way resembling Lord Morgfyre?"

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone raises her hand.

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother raises his hand.

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Aqua Initiate Quisite raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "This is a hefty argument to reply to, would you feel up to this, Saaga?"
3102h, 4304m, 3842e, 10p exk-

Saaga flashes Miska, Mistress of the Forum a joyous smile.

Saaga nods her head emphatically.

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone says, "Let me gather my thoughts with the previous arguments? I will certainly get to a point."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "I shall give you a few moments then, I am sure this subject will not change quickly. Perhaps Genevieve would like to reply while Saaga conciders?"

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone says, "I say we should stop trying even to categorize Him, it is far easier to evaluate His being through His actions and simply through Him and by not in relation to other Gods. I certainly do believe Lord Elostian has souls, and as Xaqari stated earlier, He seems to be closer to a shard. And the difference between Morgfyre and Lord Elostian are though very visible in my opinion. Though there are some confusion and maybe questions about Lord Elostian's and Morgfyre's similarity, I personally view these two very differently. Lord Elostian truly seems to be the merging of two souls, as Morgfyre again has consumed souls of other Gods. And, weren't Lacostian and Elcyrion brethen of somekind, relatives? This cannot be stated of Morgfyre and the Gods he has devoured. And again, what do we gain of information of whether or not these two Gods are alike, for their teachings are not alike at all?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Or this works."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "While the arguments stated here are logical I do not think all has been said concerning the reply of Incabulos. Perhaps Genevieve would like to reply to him?"

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel raises his hand and tail.

You nod your head emphatically.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Genevieve, are you working on a reply?"

You say, "I'm gathering my thoughts."

You say, "Yes."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum nods her head emphatically.

You say, "In the hypothetical situation yes, perhaps Lord Elostian WOULD desire to consume other gods for their experience and knowledge."

Saaga, Adherent of the Crone says, "And now to point. If we assume that Lord Elostian is more than the sum of the parts, wouldn't also the merging of these two be like that? That would not necessarily mean the resultant would devour other Gods."

Saaga nods her head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

You cough softly.

"I'm sorry!" Saaga says with a blush.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum ponders the situation.

Ays Ilydor Lyreth, Felandi d'Erlette-Dragmar raises her hand.

Aqua Initiate Quisite raises hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

You say, "But this is not a discussion of hypothetical natures of Elostian."

You say, "I think the comparison to Lord Morgfyre is a correct one in one sense. Morgfyre is a mixture of the different natures of the gods He consumed."

You say, "I think, rather."

You say, "But since devouring other gods in an all consuming quest for knowledge is not in the nature of either god that fused to form Elostian, discussion of how Elostian MIGHT have been is a moot point."

You say, "This is a discussion of what he is."

You nod your head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "That does not mean that hypothetical situations may not provide good examples or arguments though."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Xaqari, would you like to provide an argument?"

Xaqari nods his head emphatically.

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother says, "I think that the possiblity of who he could merge with is quite important in this case. I don't believe that a combination could occur between Lacostian and Fain, partly because of their differences, and partly because I believe that Elcyrion and Lacostion were the only two Elder Gods close enough to each other to perform such an act. I believe that trust or bond or whatever it was also contributes to what seems to be his greater respect for Shards than the rest of the Gods."

Xaqari nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Archmage Daxera Tregon, of the Anemone raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Indeed. We appear to have two sides of the argument now, perhaps there is someone who at least partially agrees with Incabulos who would like to reply to this?"

Aqua Initiate Quisite raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Yes, Quisite?"

Aqua Initiate Quisite says, "About Elostian and Morgfyre, there is one major difference, that is between voluntary and enforced, between merged and devoured. To consider the difference of elostian and morgfyre we must consider the difference fo both process. Are both of this process provide similar result ? is the devouring other god will result in not only combination of power but also aspect and personality ? I believe Elostian will not purposefully consume other gods like Morgfyre."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Quisite nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "That argument is against Incabulos, dear Quisite, that does not mean it is not correct but I was looking for someone to argue Incabulos' standpoint, for fear of this argument becoming one-sided."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Anyone who would wish to do so? Otherwise I am going to allow Incabulos to defend himself."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech smiles and says, "I fear not."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Do you wish to speak in keeping with Incabulos' argument, Genevieve?"

You say, "I'm willing to play devil's advocate for a second."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Then please do so."

You say, "On the other hand, we simply do not know the nature of Elcyrion's fusion with Lacostian."

You say, "Lacostian was the keeper of the Akashic Record, who is to say what He learned during all those years guarding it?"

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother raises his hand.

You say, "When he was about to be shattered when the Akashic Record fell apart, He may have used his knowledge to force a fusion with Elcyrion to save himself."

Incabulos smiles and nods, trying his best to look interested.

You say, "And Elcyrion, being a pacifist, and Lacostian being his brother, did not fight back."

You say, "It's not quite the same as Morgfyre devouring other Gods."

You say, "But similar."

You nod your head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Felandi, would you like to reply to this? I shall give you the word after her, Incabulos, as you still appear alone in your standpoint."

Incabulos flashes Miska, Mistress of the Forum a joyous smile.

Ays Ilydor Lyreth, Felandi d'Erlette-Dragmar says, "I would like to note one striking difference between Lord Elostian and Morgfyre, which is that Elostian is the result of the combined essence of two Elder Gods, contrary to Morgfyre Who attempted to digest the essence of other Divine. This makes Lord Elostian different and unique as all previous attempts to combine the essence of two Elder gods as resulted in insanity within said Divine, while this apparantly is not the case with Lord Elostian. He is the greater result of two souls joining, and Lord Morgfyre is the result of One that has devoured the essence and souls of others."

Ays Ilydor Lyreth, Felandi d'Erlette-Dragmar says, "We indeed do not know how the joining of Lord Lacostian and Lord Elcyrion came to place, and Genevieve maybe just as correct in her standpoint as anyone else."
3102h, 4304m, 3842e, 10p exk-

Ays Ilydor Lyreth, Felandi d'Erlette-Dragmar says, "Though If this joining had been between two other Elder Gods it not certain that the result would have been succesful, as we all agree how closedly tied the two Brothers were."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Incabulos, feel free to reply."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Thank you."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Before I go on, I'd like to state that me hypothetical situation was merely illustrating a larger point: that Lords Elostian and Morgfyre are, in essence, the same."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Being that Elcyrion and Lacostian were closely tied means that the side effects of merging are not as obvious as Lord Morgfyre's."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "In my opinion, Elostian's followers are merely trying to differentiate him from the Legion, as Morgfyre is perceived as 'evil'."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "When really, there is no difference. In response to Genevieve's point: we do not know at all what Elostian is thinking. He could be plotting to consume other Gods and we would simply not know until it happened. Maybe it already has? Raezon has been gone for a while, after all..."

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother raises his hand.

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Neerth, would you like to reply to this?"

Neerth nods his head affirmatively at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Gripping her staff, Miska prods it into the ground several times, looking
slightly bored.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Questions of evil and good are irrelevant here. The difference not only exists but is crucial. Morgfyre is an Elder God who consumed other Elders; this was, and remains, His nature. Just as a mortal who experiences great trauma can come to only express certain parts
of his nature, but the mortal is still the same as before, just altered by experience."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "However, Elostian did not exist and then consume His predeccesors; He is the result of a fusion between them. It makes no sense to say that His nature is the same as it was before the event, as there is nothing before to be the 'same' as."

Neerth nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

You tell Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel, "Fantastic point!"

Neerth tells you, "Yay me!"

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Then perhaps this leaves us with the question whether the coming of Lord Elostian was a fusion or a devouring. Incabulos?"

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "In response to Neerth's point: why, may I ask, can Elostian not simply be Elcyrion or Lacostian masquerading under a different moniker?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Would you like him to answer this?"

Incabulos nods his head emphatically.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "I can list several pieces of evidence that support the statement that Elostian is truly distinct from Elcyrion and Lacostian. However, the evidence that comes to mind is typically in the form of mortal perception, or the word of Lord Elostian Himself. At the moment I cannot think of a means of disproving, say, a deliberate deception of identity perpetrated by Lord Elostian."

Neerth inclines his head politely to Incabulos.

Tully, Janitor of the Basin raises his hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Would you like to reply to this, Incabulos?"

Aqua Initiate Quisite raises his hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "It might not be directly relevant, but I have a hypothesis. Elcyrion and Lacostian did not seem to have such a nature, that they would consume each other..."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "So my thought is this: Elcyrion and Lacostian were both 'absent' a period before they merged. Could it not be possible that one of them was consumed by Raezon? It definately seems like Raezon would long to 'consume' the knowledge of other gods. Particularly Lacostian."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand even harder.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Then Raezon could have simply masqueraded as either of the two, just like Morgfyre masqueraded as Hajamin."

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother raises his hand.

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Xaquari, you have been waiting diligently, perhaps you have the answer to this?"

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother says, "While that is indeed a theory, it does not appear to me to hold with the events at the time. Up to the point of Elostian's merger, reality was in rather serious danger. The combination of the two Elder gods preserved the stability of reality after our failure. Whether or not there
was a dominant Elder God responsible for the actual merge, this act of desperation to save the basin doesn't accord with Raezon's personality in my experience."

Xaqari nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Quisite, you have been waiting long as well, would you like to add something to this question?"

Aqua Initiate Quisite says, "I believe, to debate something based on assumption, will be something based on an unsteady ground. However to consider Incabulos previous point of view, let consider this, is it possible that Elostian will try to attain further fusion with other god thus for example, creating single God in
Celest ? Fusion or Devour do have one similarity in that the result is one single god who is greater than before the process. If we did not use good or evil in our judgement, are both these process so different ? Neerth pointed that the result of fusion is the creation of entirely new God, but if we see it in simplified way, it can be desribed as 'we use to have two god, and now only one' consider, is the result of endless fusion will be so different than endless devouring?"

Quisite nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Many have spoken against this now, would you like to refute their claims, Incabulos?"

Incabulos nods his head emphatically.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "First, I'd like to agree with Quisite. He hit the nail on the head, so to speak. Consuming and merging are no different."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Secondly, I'd like to further hypothesize: some odd coincidences I've noticed... Raezon departed for the Void, Morgfyre came from the Void. Maybe they fought? Or conspired against Lacostian or Elcyrion?"

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "I'd assume the latter. Morgfyre dislikes Elostian immensely."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Uh, former rather."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Also, something odd I've noticed..."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Raezon's symbol was a pentagram on a blue flame."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Elostian's symbol is a candle... with a blue flame."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Perhaps there's a hidden message?"

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Genevieve, would you like to reply to this?"

You say, "Yes, in two parts."

You say, "First: Consuming and merging are different in a number of manners."

You say, "What is under scrutiny here is several factors. Was it consensual? Who began it? And to consume the essence of another leads one essence to dominate the consumed one."

You say, "It seems to be that it's an even mixture of the two essences of the Gods involved."

You say, "Which appears to be the primary difference between fusion and consumption."

You say, "And second, you have come up with an interesting point that I've noticed myself, the similarities between the symbols of Raezon and Elostian."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel raises his hand and tail.

You say, "I was going to dismiss this point as irrelevant."

You say, "But I realized its VERY relevant."

You say, "Since this could be a key to Elostian's nature."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

You say, "I do not have an answer to this though, but this point does indeed bring to light Incabulos's point that perhaps Elostian is more than He appears to be."

You nod your head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Neerth, would you like to respond?"

Neerth nods his head affirmatively at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "The shrines of the Forbidden God are still present in the land, to say nothing of His fulcrux here on Avechna's Peak. The fulcruces of the the Erudite One and the Mysterial Lord are not. And our Lord Enigma has a fulcrux. Are these simple matters that could be
faked, even by a Divine? A fulcrux is the most tangible and direct permanent physical manifestation of a Divine. This points to clear conclusions about the impossibility of certain Gods masquerading as Others."

Neerth nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Incabulos."

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor raises his hand.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Interesting point. I'd like to hypothesize even further, if I may."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Ecclesiar Hoshiyomi, Fae of Rose Gold says, "Erm...should I not be here?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Please remain silent."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Let us assume that Raezon departed to the Void in order to gain knowledge of how to consume other gods, from Morgfyre, in order to increase his knowledge. In return, Raezon revealed to Morgfyre how to return to the first world."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Obviously, Raezon would use his other knowledge to refine Morgfyre's method of consumption, so that he did not go insane. Thusly, it stands toreason, that Raezon could simply be Elostian. Fully aware and conscious. That is why his fulcrux remains. Elostian's could be
a decoy, or some sort of essence-redirection device also linked to Raezon."

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

You say, "I have a question that I think would be pertinent to the topic at hand."

You say, "I'm sorry to interrupt."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "You may speak later."

You nod your head emphatically.

Neerth tells you, "ZAP."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Tully, you raised your hand long ago, would you like to speak? My apologies for making you wait so long."

Tully, Janitor of the Basin says, "No, others covered it."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum nods her head emphatically.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Then Zalandrus, please reply to the topic at hand."

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "Thank you. I'd like to briefly offer some of the thoughts I have on this seeming similarity."

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "First off, the similar use of a blue flame was brought up. One is in the context of an argent pentagram, carrying connotations of magical, almost unorthodox origins. The other is in the form of a candle, which, at first thought, brings the connotation of bringing light. These uses of knowledge are fundamentally different, as the two Gods' opinions on knowledge are fundamentally different, at least to my knowledge."
3087h, 4304m, 3842e, 10p ex

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "Lord Raezon had
a thirst for knowledge, an all-consuming, overwhelming lust for it, and
sacrifice was but a small step in its acquisition. Lord Elostian, however, has
already shown, at least to me, that knowledge comes from thought, from
experimentation, from unbiased, objective searching. Again, a fundamental
difference."

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "As to the fulcrux matter. Yes, Gods have disappeared to places mortals do not understand, and Their fulcruxes and shrines have stayed. Yet, once a God has irrevocably left, for whatever reason, we have seen that their fulcruxes disappear. Since
Lord Lacostian's fulcrux turned into Lord Elostian's, an unprecedednted occurence, I believe it is safe to assume that Lord Elostian at the very least contains a large part of Lord Lacostian's essence."

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "We must also assume that Lord Elcyrion is a part of Lord Elostian, since He was present at Xion, and that whole fiasco which unveiled Lord Elostian to us."

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "Now, as to whether or not Lord Raezon is in any bit part of Lord Elostian, I believe that simply, we must have faith for now that the other Gods, such as Lady Terentia, would know the fundamental difference."

You have emoted: Genevieve raises her hand.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Are you finished, Zalandrus?"

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech raises his hand.

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "True, the Gods did not recognize Lord Morgfyre at first. But, Lords Lacostian and Elcyrion are definitely a part, and thus, even if Lord Raezon was a part, His behavior should be a mixture of the three, at the very least."

Lost to the Sidereal, Zalandrus Meyedsun, Grand Conductor says, "Now I am. Apologies for my long winded-ness."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Very well. We have been here a long time. I will allow Genevieve and Incabulos to reply before we move towards closing arguments. Are there others who still wish to reply at this point?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "All right, Genevieve, please speak."

You say, "Ok, first my question: After Hajamin was devoured by Morgfyre, and Morgfyre was still masquerading as him, did Hajamin's fulcrux still exist?"

Lysandus nods his head affirmatively at you.

You say, "Ok, so we know that it's not beyond the Elder Gods to maintain a fulcrux that isn't theirs, or mimic another's."

You say, "With knowledge, I think it's safe to say that if the fulcruxes can be mimicked, visages can be mimicked, and even the other Gods such as Lady Terentia can be fooled by a clever actor (Morgfyre pretending to be Hajamin), there is no safe way to be sure that a God is what it says it is."

You say, "We have to take their word for it, because that is all we have. Even the other Elders can be fooled, so we as mortals are even more likely to be unaware of an Elder acting like another."

Elostian, the Enigma has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for 2 days.

You nod your head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Incabulos, would you like to reply?"

Incabulos nods his head emphatically.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Firstly, an old point: the blue flame."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Zalandrus said that the uses of the flame were different, and so the meaning is different. I disagree. A normal flame is yellow, seems like a normal choice. If the candle was supposed to symbolize the bringing of light, then a white flame would do that nicely. Blue
seems like a very odd choice, in my opinion."

"Erk!" Incabulos says with a grimace.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Secondly: the difference in ideals could simply be a charade. Oddly enough, though, one of Elostian's ideals is maintaining an open mind."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "After this we shall move onwards to closing arguments. These are personal last arguments providing your own personal conclusions that do not reply to anything said earlier and will not be replied to by anyone. Those who wish to make a closing argument might wish to start
preparing."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Maybe that's simply a gateway into Raezon's area of 'forbidden knowledge'?"

Incabulos nods his head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Indeed, thank you, Incabulos."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Are there any who wish to make a closing argument before we conclude the debate?"

You say, "I do, I'm preparing."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Any others?"

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother says, "I too am preparing."

Lysandus, Aesthete of Cantors says, "So do I."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "I'll refrain, since I had my opportunity at the start."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Indeed, then we shall keep it at these three. Perhaps Neerth would like to close the debate after they are done stating if his opinions have changed or not."

Neerth smiles wryly at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Genevieve, you may start."

You say, "In the end, what this debate suffered from was a lack of agreed upon definitions to terms that all of us were using. What consitutes an Elder God? A Primal God? Is it what they DO that makes them one of these, or some other intangible quality? It seems to me that date of creation is hardly the only factor necessary in deciding their status. By my own definitions, I believe Elostian to be an Elder God, though I wouldn't know what circle to put him in, if you think that's a relevent question. The manner in which Elostian came to be is questionable also."

You say, "There is a reason He is called the Enigma. I doubt we shall have answers to many of these questions."

You say, "Some may become apparent in time though. I'll withhold judgement till then."

You nod your head at Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Lysandus, please speak."

Lysandus, Aesthete of Cantors says, "Well, from what I can tell, I see this like trying to find out the origin of salt water. Let us say Salt is Lord Lacostian and Water is Lord Elcyrion, mix them together we get Salt Water or Lord Elostian."

Lysandus, Aesthete of Cantors says, "That is all I think."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Xaqari?"

Xaqari, Adherent of the Mother says, "Lord Elostian, as far as I am sure, is his own. I view him as a God separate from our current definitions, and feel that many things will only be discovered after much time, if ever. I believe that Lord Elostian is comprised not just of two brother halves, but is a new and separate identity from any other being. He is alone Elostian, not necessarily carrying on the beliefs or traditions of either God, but combining their aspects together into a wholly new manner of God, a product, not a sum. I personally have no doubt that Elostian is not any false God, and that while some symbolism may seem to hint otherwise, as a ritualist I know that the same candle can be used to evoke many different thoughts, moods and meanings. The Blue Flame Candle personally inspires me to view all things from the points of view which are relevant, and to make solid conclusions from the highest possible degree of understanding and reason. This to me is representative of my Lord."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "May I?"

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Do you wish to make a closing argument?"

Incabulos nods his head emphatically.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Are you done, Xaqari?"

Xaqari nods his head emphatically.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "If I may: I'd like to close by simply saying that if it is Raezon controlling Elostian: I applaud his knowledge and cunning. If not: well, I still do not fully trust Elostian is exactly who he says he is. He could easily be very unstable, underneath this facade he currently portrays. It does not matter how you define him in terms of what type of god he is."

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Or what circle he belongs to... what truly matters are his thoughts, plans and ideals. And those we cannot truly know. That is all."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "Neerth, would you like to close this debate?"

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel steps forward once again, his tail flicking back and forth as he inhales deeply.

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "I think the debate has clarified what the crucial points are in identifying Lord Elostian's nature. First, simply is He or is He not an Elder God? Second, is He or is He not a Soulless God? I was shown the error of my logic in assuming that the presence of souls in His predecessors necessarily implied that He too has a soul."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "As well, I continue to believe that there are significant differences in the evolution of Morgfyre the Legion and the genesis of Elostian the Enigma, as most evidence put forth to the contrary has been circumstantial. However, I had not even contemplated, before this debate, the possibility that my Lord might be deliberately falsifying our perceptions and understanding of his nature. This adds another level of mystery to the issue."

Head Archivist Neerth, Patriarch of Japhiel says, "Genevieve's point about the vagueness of terminology is well taken. I still do not believe that Lord Elostian is an Elder God, but perhaps we simply need to update our Divine taxonomy? Still, even that suggestion supports what I began by asserting, that the Enigma is a God unlike any other in history."

Neerth's mouth turns up as his face breaks into a smile.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "I hope all have grown wiser because of this. And I would like to thank everyone heartily for attending. Lord Elostian has watched over this debate and I do not doubt that He is pleased with the free exchange of views that has taken place here."

Miska, Mistress of the Forum says, "I hope to see everyone again in future for similar occasions."

Incabulos's mouth turns up as his face breaks into a smile.

Miska, Mistress of the Forum's mouth turns up as her face breaks into a smile.

Neerth thanks Miska, Mistress of the Forum profusely.

Incabulos doffs a black, crimson banded top hat with pentacles cordially.

Xaqari's mouth turns up as his face breaks into a smile.

Vanthan bows respectfully to Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

Quisite's mouth turns up as his face breaks into a smile.

Ayesha thanks Miska, Mistress of the Forum profusely.

Mad Hatter Incabulos, Shield of Klaymech says, "Thank you, everyone."

You curtsey respectfully before Miska, Mistress of the Forum.

I will continue to edit it, it's just a very long process...

edit: All done!

Lusternia; the Conspiracy Theories

Lovely debate! Now I feel bad that I had to leave in the middle of it.

it was a nice debate even though I mixed up yudhe and Dynara and other of such things in my arguments

Though Icly I never admit this, anisu thinks it was a pointless debate since She didn't learn anything about Elostian's personality

And blast those defilers for making me leave it

Argh, I loved the Channukah celebration I was at while this was happening, but I'm depressed that I had to miss it. Bugger.

It looks like it was really interesting. Everyone who participated should get a Cookie.

He isn't a star god? What's his description?

Heh, the only thing this debate has convinced me of is that there's a possibility that Raezon is Elostian.

It's propaganda, I say, meant to make innocent Celestians paranoid

Inculabos needs to be...immortalized. His Raezon hypothesis made my day.

His page on Elryn's wiki has his description, and much else besides. He's basically sparkly wind with eyes and robes.

Those are outdated.

Ah. In that case, was the opinion on you not being a Star God up the wrong tree? Or are you still not a star god but... Different? I didn't save what you looked like on Friday. In fact, I didnt really get around to reading it at all.

Inculabos was awesome.

Xaqari was awesome too, and I'd say Genevieve as well, except THANK YOU for posting BOTH my misemote and my mistell ... voice of Elostian no talk so good.

Elostian denies any and all conspiracy theories. Which proves them of course. (Actually to be honest He neither confirms nor denies them. Which proves them of course.)

Thanks to Miska for running such a great event!

When Anadrea and I talked to Elostian about how the World Library was under-used, he did say that he'd look into it and there would most likely be an NPC eventually to take care of the library. I never thought he'd get to it so quickly.

I am going to be haunted by the mention of Raezon for the rest of my existence. And if you want to find out what Elostian is like I would suggest seeking him out IC. If you have a solid constitution and a quick wit you might even get him to tell you how he exists and what he is like. (some already know, you might try finding those)

Be forewarned: He likes to tell you to talk and then wait for you to say something he deems worthy of his effort to speak on. You're more than likely to get more questions than answers out of him.