I didn't mean combat. I meant actual performance talent. You know, more argh-pee than kill kill kill?

And who would you get to judge?

How do I rp?

You can sing song heavy metal songs to bring the house down on your opponent then its over

Exarius' post is pretty good. There's not much middle ground when it comes to fighting. You're either all in or all out. Faced with the prospects of not being able to do anything but fight, I'd opt out.

Not very, unless your character has no interest in guild business. Mine only wants to be involved with the city, not the guild. Though, in order to have skills, she has to be a member of a guild. Which is ok. She just doesn't involve herself with it, unless it's helping novices.

Agreed. The conflict on Lusternia is almost always fairly radical. Karma makes it come back to you one way or another- if you're in, winning or losing, griefing occurs. if you're out or refuse to participate (more often with active fighters than not) because you dislike the cause or whatever, your organization will be ticked with you. Your trading also gets fairly cut off, if that's what you do for fun.

That, and since a large amount of conflict is 2 vs. 2, you can only go Rogue or to the other side, since you don't want to have anything to do with the conflict. Consequences with both choices.

I've noticed it's like that in most IRE games as well. Well, here and another I played for a long time. There's no such thing as fighting when you feel like it and just taking it easy otherwise. Wonder if there's a way around that...

If you can solve that delimma, you'll completely revolutionize MUDing as we know it...

I disagree with some arguments about why conflict is or is not happening in Lusternia. I think Noola had it right when she said that combat is more than “fighting.” While yes, you can definitely argue that player combat tends to follow conflict, it largely has no bearing whatsoever on the long term outcome of said conflict.

I think the reason conflict has deflated is because of IRE policy to cut down on such between organizations. If you consider the Ethereal Plane, it has all but been neutered. While it is still possible to roleplay whatever you choose (this being the Daganev method), I’m a firm believer that conflict (to be worthwhile and meaningful) requires some sort of mechanical/administrative oversight to allow one team the chance to temporarily “gain” an advantage over its foes. This is never a permanent advantage and tends to go away with time or effort, but it is something meaningful to work towards.

Sticking with the Ethereal example, it used to be possible to empower Queen Maeve to support Mother Moon or Mother Night every so often. This was a rather difficult quest that required careful tendering of the Ladies or Daughters followed by a rather tedious quest that was easily botched. One person who knew what to do could indefinitely screw it up... but the thrill of having the possibility and actually accomplishing provided some worthwhile reward for all the trouble/fuss.

Combat played a relatively minor role in this conflict quest. However, with the quest removed... there isn’t much left aside from combat to fill the void

Yay for the removal of conflict quests and the neutering of Lusternis, that'll bring in tons more players, right?

I agree with Narsrim though. Dunno who made that half-assed decision (Estarra or Sarapis), but either way, it made Lusternia a FAR less interesting game. I only stuck around because friends demanded I stay... And there was nowhere better to go.

I agree, there needs to be something that you can keep working at, that has some kind of an advantage or disadvantage. Weren't nexus worlds going to be something like this when they were fully released?

It doesn't have to be as formal as a judging. I am sure the other bard guilds could walk away declaring themselves the better performers, just as Bhiele's high opinion of herself would have her walking away as the winner no matter what was declared. If the people wanted some judging though the audience I assume could determine the winners. I'll work out something and get that started IG. I don't think many current Harbingers other than Bhiele and maybe Vanatul would take the initiative.

I would just like to see something, anything happening between the bardic guilds that is more personal to the characters than just "who has the best submissions in literaries" and blah blah blah. Other than commune involvement, there is nothing really for our guild members to get excited about. I like drama and a conflict that would keep me interested in playing every day.

There are very few bards of any personal quality. Nobody wants to be a bard. most people in the bard guilds are, by and large, :censor:.

As a consequence, the bard guilds are a festering waste of disk space.

All that aside, it's a neat idea.

I agree with you for the most part Vis. However, I've seen some very competent bard characters that aren't about the mudseks, nor about the snuggling, nor about the ever craptastic belly dancing extravaganza. Granted, they weren't in Lusternia. (Nirrti and Kamilah are the exception to this) You can be a great bardic politician trouble maker without conforming to the cliche. Maybe we can change that opinion that you and most people share of bards. A girly can dream, right?

Obviously, I used to think conflict quests would make for a dynamic gaming environment--after all I designed them! However, it took me probably too long to admit that I was wrong and that conflict quests ended up making players constantly grind (i.e., quest) or put organizations in a constant (i.e., exhausting) state of stress. We tried everything from modifying the quests to lengthening the time, but nothing seemed to help until we diluted them to the point where they are today. When the conflict quests were active, we were losing players (or were static). Once the burden of the quests were lifted, the playerbase has been growing.

Narsrim and Shorlen, what you guys just aren't seeing is that YOU were having fun but very few others were! Yes, YOU may prefer a game with constant conflict (and personally I do too) but your view is not the majority view. It is a very bitter pill to swallow (and I've swallowed it too), but you are simply wrong in thinking that more conflict will attract and/or keep more players. The facts just don't support that thesis.

That said, the nexus worlds will blossom one day as a source of conflict if the cities and communes choose to participate. (But right now, we're caught up in the Ascension Event.) Am I open to more ideas for conflict? Certainly, if they avoid the pitfalls we've encountered--but that is a difficult task to balance!

*grumble* I like conflict quests...

I wait with baited breath.

I have to give Estarra major props on the quests. I am not a quester myself, as I have very little patience and a touch of ADD, but you won't find more well thought, complex and entertaining quests anywhere else. I think conflict quests give good basis for conflict within the realms, but true good and enjoyable conflict comes from the players and their reactions to them.

Really, if you want a situation where you can fight when you want to but otherwise ignore it, you need a situation like WoW has, or that Warhammer will have, but with an extra twist. Namely, the "home" regions are somewhat seperated from the "war fronts", and so if you want a fight, you'd be in one of these disputed areas (which can change based on how the sides are doing), but not only that, to replace those that don't wish to fight while preventing a side from getting completely hosed during off hours, you have intelligent denizens (which Hajamin coded for Illyrias, so we know its possible.) They're able to use items and cure afflictions and adapt slightly. And the population is able to fund an army, which, when their fighters aren't around, can at least hold off a raid, and still give the attackers some satisfaction. The ammount of your army that shows up to a disputed area is determined by how many people from your side are also in the area. The more players you have there, the less of your army shows up. This allows people who want to fight to fight, and people who don't want to fight to not feel obligated to fight, since they can instead simply supply the army with supplies and funding, and be just as valuable.