All Lusternia needs is more 1vs1 and smaller team fights. Everything is in groups which gets boring fast. The problem is the players though, not the system.

To be fair, I never claimed that increased conflict in turn increased the player base. The question posed by this thread was why conflict has deflated, and I responded with what I feel is an honest (and a real) answer. I also don’t understand why there is any “pill” whatsoever to swallow. Any facet of an IRE experience may or may not be worthwhile or enjoyable to certain people.

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As for new conflict, this is my idea:

+ The creation of various factions (that players might opt to join) that are rooted in philosophical and ideological intrigue that appeal to players on various levels DIFFERENT than that of the current themes (nature versus wyden, tainted versus “the light,” etc). These factions would be housed primarily in aetherspace, but some could be located on the Prime Material Plane

+ Each faction would work towards a philosophical or ideological goal that was relatively independent of cities/communes. While cities/communes may become involved, the overall impact of aiding factions would have no city/commune result (as in no power generation, etc).

+ Each faction would regard each other faction as an ally, enemy, or neutral party. Some factions might have multiple allies and enemies... some might regard all others as neutral. There would be no set mold. This may or may not effect the Avenger/Karma system (I like the idea of faction PK, but I dunno)

+ Factions would have various methods (primarily lengthy, neat quests) to empower themselves. This would likely come at a cost of harming another faction. In doing so, there would be some fringe benefit to players in that faction. There might likewise be some negative in those of an opposing faction. The idea here is to generate conflict.

I could go on forever, but I think this is the general gist. The idea is the creation of independent “organizations” that players can voluntarily join and voluntarily participate in to achieve a similar dynamic conflict environment as seen in the past. Joining a faction would be relatively easy, but leaving one would be difficult/expensive (and maybe like a 2-3 year period where said person cannot rejoin another faction).

While there would be some benefit to those who are members of a faction under certain circumstances, this would by and large be a VOLUNTARY system. No one would be forced or feel obligated to participate, but those who wish to do so would have the option.

Strange, since I've heard of quite a lot of people quitting the game over the lack of conflict quests, and quite a few people who, like me, feel cheated by being lured in by them only to have them yanked away. Conflict quests were just about the only interesting feature in Lusternia compared to the other IREs. I happen to like the combat system in Lusternia more than other IREs, but I never really fought in other IREs. Just about everyone who comes from other IREs says this system is terrible compared to them, so... :shrug: We have skillchoices, but really, they aren't in the slightest balanced against one another in most cases, and thus there's usually only one real choice for a guild. We have a bunch of minigames. Umm, yay? We have an emphasis on org vs orgs conflict, which makes it so we can't have small group conflict no matter how much we want it. It all comes down to who has the most people to zerg the other side. Rapture is not designed for large group combat, and the envoys aren't even supposed to balance for large group combat.

Really, Lusternia had only two things going for it. An amazingly well written back story, and conflict quests. Now, it only has one thing going for it, and that's the backstory, which is surprisingly enough to still draw some players.

The game could definitely use something dynamic that gives the illusion of being a part of the story, and the illusion of doing something worthwhile, to make it interesting again.

Shorlen, I hear the opposite on many of the points you raised especially Lusternia's combat system which I routinely hear praised by people from other IRE games and the old conflict quest which I often heard derided because it was just too much work and there was never any "off" time in the game. I have fought in every IRE game and Lusternia's combat system is the most interesting to me.

So it seems players are saying two different things and since Estarra can see the numbers better than any of us it would seem like she would know which group was saying which the most.

But the problem is voluntary meaningful conflict vs. forced conflict. The old conflict quests forced a player to participate or something very bad would happen to their organization. I'm not sure what shape the conflict should take but perhaps a system with only positive reinforcement. You just get something if you do participate but don't lose anything if you don't. Though its kind of hard to not "lose" anything when you feel you lose something if your enemies win or gain anything.

Weird, we must be talking to completely different people. I have ceartainly heard several other-IRE imports laughing at the system as nothing but a lame attrition battle where it takes far too long to get anywhere.

Likely.

Agreed, but my problem with the nexus world idea is that it lacks flavour entirely I know that the very few but very vocal anti-Glomdoring-as-a-player-nation people dislike Glomdoring mostly because of how awesome the Crow vs Hart conflict quests were, flavour-wise. Looking over old quotes of them, and bits of them on the beta server where apparently they were enabled, makes me forced to agree. They were the most well-implemented form of living history that I've seen in a game like this, and without them, the game is just that much less.

I think you have fallen to the illusion of like-minded people talking to each other, and thinking everyone feels the same way. The greater possibility is though people have left for the reasons you have stated, far more left because of the feeling of being overburdened with combat and org quests. It is just that those who did leave for the latter reason usually are not the most prominently known, nor verbal about their departure.

In my experience playing online role-playing games, I have found us combatants to be the most loud and whiny of the bunch. Non-combatants seem to complain a lot less about what bothers them, and seem to depart games in a far less attention-grabbing manner than combatants do.

Few and far between? Is she totally out of touch with reality or did the game change that much while I've been away?

I think Jessa is on at bad times. When I wake up in the morning (American late-night) I see Celestians dying to Magnagorans and vice versa all the time, several times a day, every day. At this time of day, there's rarely many raids.

Ever heard the old saying, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all? No, I'm not out of touch with reality and if you'd learn a decent way to make your points aside from acting like a jerk more people would listen to you.

Be nice


Edit: Shiri, you could be right. Though, I'm on and off at various times. I've seen a few raids recently, it's just impossible to be on the offensive side. And nearly as impossible to be on the defense because the more experienced players often say they don't need your help, etc etc. So, conflict is hard to find for me unless I want a shouting match with some noob.

What the sod are you smoking? Do you not remember what the idiots sub forum was like nine months ago? I can think of LOADS of people who quit because of the stress of the conflict quests. I can't think of a single person who has quit because of their absence.

If Lusternia is getting boring, Shorlen. Use your imagination and make it interesting for yourself! It's not so very difficult.

In any case, as things stand, I'm getting quite enough conflict thank you very much. I can usually guarantee that I'll be raiding or repelling a raid for at least an hour of the five or so I play per day. Any more than that would depress me, because I wouldn't have time for the things I also enjoy in Lusternia... any less, and I might begin to feel the absence. Right now, it's great. So I'm not complaining, and I wouldn't want a single thing changed.

I agree with Aiakon, raids that happen 10 times a day, every 5 minutes is just too stressful, add that with conflict quests and boom, mind blows up, goes to idiotic forums, say how the opposing players 'grief', how the current org I'm in is weak and so on and so forth.

There's more to Lusternia then just fight fight fight fight, get to know friends, learn more of its history, and some flavor in it than the usual hunting/raid.

Guess I've been in the Serenwilde too long, where the only fighting we're allowed to do is kicking Glom when noone's looking. Maybe it's just me, but isn't the "conflict" between the cities just random griefing with no point or goal? Is it just the vocal people who see pointless fighting as, well, pointless? Dunno, I was under the impression that that is what Jessa was talking about...

There's a reason people played mods like Counterstrike far more than deathmatch in Half-Life - goal oriented fighting is awesome and interesting compared to random ownage. :shrug:

So far, we're having 'The Defiling Wars', whoever destroys the most shrines, wins the war

And I'm getting lots of gold from this

Ultimately Shorlen its all pointless. Its a text game. The only meaning is what you give it. The cities will never actually destroy one another with their constant raids and the like but the players don't seem to much care that in 30 minutes the fact that they held an enemy plane for an hour and killed all comers will not matter in the least.

It's a victory of the moment and the fleetingness of it guarantees that the other side won't really tear themselves up about it too much because they can forget about it quickly. As long as the sides are relatively balanced, it remains entertaining and its easier to keep the sides balanced when players can do more than JUST conflict. I have no clue what its like in the communes though. Without the steady raidings I would probably be bored.

It was an honest question... When I saw someone asking for more conflict in Lusternia because raids and such are 'few and far between' , my first reaction was, "Is she playing the same Lusternia I was playing?"

QFT. It is what you make it.

Narsrim, I like your factions idea. However, I suggest that instead of FACTIONS we call them ORDERS and instead of Aetherbubbles we have things called TEMPLES. Just a suggestion.

Well, Shorlen has a good chance of becoming a god, so he might soon get to try some stuff for himself.

To build on Fallen's idea: A neutral area, where we can use our PvP tactics on the denizens. They'll be clever, but not as good as real players. Not only do we get to fight mobs without using just the bash attack, we get to relieve stress, try out new tactics and train combatants, get people interested in PvP combat, and get to 'PvP' without feeling guilt for having causing grief to a player.

People will say arenas, so I'll explain more. There's no gain in arenas, exp-wise or gold-wise. Killing denizens with PvP tactics would give the usual benefits of exp, possible gold and a corpse.

Also, it can be hard to find someone roughly your skill to spar. With denizens, simply go find a mob that is roughly your skill. There can then be mobs of different 'levels', from weak little mobs for novices to have fun with minor afflictions, all the way to astral-mob strength for stress relieving(?).

Caerulo: Oh my, I actually like your idea! As of now, bashing is only pressing the same macros over and over. It'd be a lot of fun to add something like that. Add a bit of spice to it.