Great idea on paper, nightmare in code. It's one thing for a coder to write a simple AI for enemies to attack, and decide between the different afflictions they can give out a certain percentage of the time, etc.. It's MUCH more difficult if the denizen is expected to track curing of different kinds of afflictions, using one of many different methods for each affliction, and weigh that against the possible loss in eq/balance, etc.. Then you have to decide how to make them 'harder' or 'weaker'. Besides changing their strength, you have to decide what skills/herbs/potions they would have available to them, and how proficient they will be at using them.

Lusternian combat is really just a bit too complicated for this to be a viable option.

You're wrong. Hajamin coded it for Illyrias. The denizens there used items and could be afflicted with anything a player could be, and they also knew when to get the hell outta Dodge against insta-kills and such.

And he was starting his mud from scratch. This would be a nightmare to code because so much would need to be changed, so much would have to be added... and how on earth do you know it -wasn't- a nightmare for Baram to code? The fact that he did it doesn't mean it wasn't difficult. Your flame was overhasty, methinks.

I'm also confused as to the reasoning behind this again? Its a multiplayer game. We don't need mobs that can do all the things players can do when we can just find a player, can't we?

He said Lusternian combat was too complicated for it to be viable. Its not. Hajamin proved it. Whether or not it took him a while to code, its still doable. Not much would have to be changed, given that the denizen code is probably seperate from most things. Why would it need to be linked at the moment, given that it doesn't relate to anything else? All you'd have to do is write it and plug it in. Yes, it might not be easy to write, but it should be very possible unless the base code of Achaea was so horribly done as to link unrelated parts of code simply to make them impossible to change.

And I think your defence was a bit too hasty.. since when is something being diffuclt a reason not to completely improve and revolutionize the IRE world? That is why the current Lusternia is turning to mush.. because things seemed too difficult to fix, so they just scraped it all together. That's a horrible attitude. If its difficult, fine, that's a reason for it to take longer once its under development, but not a reason for it to be ignored completely.

I think the key word here is VOLUNTARY.

Combat needs to be voluntary or its bound some people will be unhappy.
The idea of having war zones and a AI army is fine in theory, but funding it will be a different matter, people not willing to pay for it as it does not affect them, and begrudge the fact that their hard-earned money is being wasted (in their opinion).

The idea of having factions/orders, is a much better one in my opinion as it negates the compulsary side of combat, although I feel the benefits gained from joining them should not be overwelming. For example, to learn most of your skills, you must join a guild, players may feel obliged to join a faction just to gain a technique/buff.

Tamarian
Knowing he cant type/spell

No, no, and no. Orders can't do these things because all of them are very closely aligned with the cities and communes.

I like the idea of aether factions. Perhaps a gnomish civil war is in order?

It would be kind of cool to play a race of gnomes or finks and take part in the war that continues in Newton. I'd rather play a shroomie however, and people could jump on my head for 1 UP.

Um they can do these things, and they did do these things for a time. But you need two active gods who both agree to do it, and orders of people willing to participate it in. But trying that is much easier than trying to make a whole new "factions system"


As for Hajamin "prooving" anything, he didn't. We don't know if what he did would work with 300 people logged in at once, we don't know how what he did would affect pvp, we also don't know how it would work when you have 1,000 different mobs to code.

I have always heard that if mob combat was too complicated it would cause too much lag.

Doable <> viable. Simple AI itself is relatively difficult to write (take it from someone who's done it), mostly because you have to assign a weight to every possible move in order to decide which is the best. For example, if you have stupidity, is it better to focus mind or to eat pennyroyal? Or should you ignore it completely and just go on attacking? What about when you stack other afflictions with it? It's difficult for intelligent players to weigh these things out, trying to write a generalized set of rules for determining when and how to cure even just one affliction. When two afflictions are stacked, it gets that much more complicated. It takes a lot of hours to code cures and priorities, which is why curing systems can sell for so much. Now, add to that a full offensive system, which must be equally weighed out, and must be integrated with the curing system as well.

How would you handle things like blackout and the like, since obviously a mob doesn't rely on sight? Or illusions? Should mobs have unlimited power? Really, it gets extremely complicated very quickly. As has already been said, it might be possible, given a LOT of time, effort, and practice, to put together a mob that acted somewhat like a player, with several exceptions that are simply not possible. Still, while POSSIBLE, it is not viable, because 1. the processing would produce too much lag, 2. it would require an incredible amount of time and effort, 3. it would not add much to the game

Curing system priorities are very very simple in terms of what they do. It wouldn't be all that complicated to give a denizen the same prioties-a above b above c.

Illusions could easily be triggered to have a small percentage chance to fool a denizen.

You could give your average denizen 0 power.

If done right, the processing shouldn't be too bad. If the game can handle aetherspace, it can handle a shared curing priority.

The time and effort would be worth it for the reward. You say it doesn't add much, but that's obviously a biased opinion. Mine isn't so much, because when Haj announced it for Illyrias, everyon was really excited.. so obviously it must add something. I know I'd love it if there was actually a bit fo strategy involved in bashing sentients.

Thats another good point.. when Baram said he did it, he only did it with 1 or 2 skillsets in existance.

Illusions triggering to maybe work? how would that work? You have to do a whole pattern matching on illusions? I would think that mobs would have to ignore illusions completely, make all mobs krokani or something...

However, I do imagine that sometime soon they will have to figure out a way to do it. Afterall, WoW and Guildwars do it to an extend now, and soon I'm sure everyone will figure out how to do it properly.

If denizens can respond to specific words you say, I don't see why they can't respond to illusions.

You say, "You are webbed"

Denizen: Writhe!

Mobs can't tell the difference between "I will lead you to Avencha's peak" and "I need unleaded fuel to speak"

If you had illusions working like the way they recognize what is said, then everyone with the ability to speak would have mobs writhing off balance the entire fight.

Not at all.. because given that Illusion is its own command, and is tagged in its own way (as certain abilities allow you to see through them, so obviously they have their own tags) then only people with illusions could use it, and you'd just have to have the pattern recognize affliction-dealing lines. With, say, 10-20% chance of it 'distracting' the denizen for a short period of time. Not that difficult to understand.

Theoretically, it shouldn't be too crazy hard.

Make it only a limited number of afflictions work.

Also, make it so they can't be locked.

Afterwards, when giving them skill sets, give them just the prime-skill sets + specializations.

Basically, the idea is that there are denizens that are part of Guilds. Ur'Guard get Marshals and Ur'Marshals, other Guilds get their full members, etc.

Ur'Guard get Knighthood + specialization
Druids get nature + druidism.

Also, those classes with demesnes get a few of the demesne effects.

So, for instance, say Theormar sees a Paladin denizen wandering the Blasted Lands. Theomar will say to himself "That Paladin does not belong here!" and will proceed to attack. Theomar eventually overwhelms the Paladin, and then beheads it (or executes it!).
Now, that same battle could've ended with Theomar starting to lose. He decides that the Paladin is too much, and so kneecaps the Paladin, thereby affording Theomar enough time to escape.

Likewise, with some wicked coding, the Paladin could end up kneecapping Theomar and get its programmed butt out of there.

This could help expand conflict as, concerning the mechanics, Theomar just killed a member of the Paladin guild.

Things of this nature would ultimately make the game *so* much better, and seriously make my happy inside. This would help train people to be able to fight, or at least defend themselves, a tiny bit better.

Its = the possessive
It's is short for it is.

Just so you know. You make that mistake a lot and it's retarded.



There are any number of crappy MUDs where you can hit the NPCs with the same things you can hit the players with. Go play one if it's that important to you. Personally, I don't think this change is worth the effort. We already have arenas, and they're just fine for practising your moves and getting better.

Besides, you're letting yourself get hung up on the issue of whether it's viable or not. What about the issue of: "is it worth their the coders' while?" - I say no. I like NPCs just the way they are, and I'd prefer our coders to work on other things.

Just so you know. You resort to this sort of thing whenever you're losing an argument and its retarded.



Its about an immersive world. You may say no, but a lot of people say yes.

While it would be slightly more interesting to have mobs that did some more interesting things, isn't the point of playing a multiplayer game to play with other players? I am honestly not seeing the advantage of this. I am sure it can be coded. We're not talking truly smart mobs here, just mobs with some skillsets and a decent curing system. But I'm with Aiakon in questioning the worth of this.

I would much rather have mobs that were smarter in terms of quests and remembering things that were done with them (you slaughtered the whole village 30 minutes ago, they have a short attention span if they don't at least scream girlishly when you waltz back in) than have a mob that is essentially a training dummy. At least in terms of immersion. Mobs don't fight as well as players because they are not adventurers and are not selected by the Fates for greater things. Simple RP reason for it.

Maybe I dislike this idea so much simply because of the horror I feel at the idea of having to deal with mobs that can sever my tendons and absolve me when all I want to do is bash a little to unwind after dealing with raids. The very idea makes me want to just quit now

My idea wasn't meant to be used for bashing. It was meant to be used to incite conflict. As such, taking the exp learned from killing one of those intelligent npcs would be none.

I do agree that this would take a long time/processing power to do, and not entirely feasible. But an idea is an idea.

Anyways, I'd love it if NPCs just did this: