Totally crappy analogy because....

You forgot alchemy.

Alchemy=Enchanting
Fairish balance

Then add in communes advantage over herbalism with nature guard.

Cities get one trade skill that the communes don't get.
Communes get one trade skill that the cities don't get.
Nature users in communes get to screw city herbalists if they want to.


Makes sense to you now?



That seems fairly fair I suppose.

trader bob has potions even if they're bad, it's technically an option so forests could never cut them off. plus there's always the black market

OK everyone seems to be picking at eachother a bit much.... alchemy and enchanting are rather equal since last I checked Bob doesnt sell all of them and the ones he does sell are maybe.. half filled?

Perhaps if you try to argue that sigils can be stopped by 25% of the game 4/16 guilds that is then you can also admit that 4/16 having the power to prevent anyone else from harvesting is a bit much since sigils well harder to remove are still after all.. what? Oh yeah their effects are limited.. eye and monolith are TWO seperate sigils.. and need flames just to stay in place. So no you cant fairly compare them. And agreed guard should have a new name... NATURE GRIEF... hah humour.

Krellan -can- in theory have a relative monopoly.. if there arent enough of an herb then you CANT harvest it or it will die and become even harder to get.. how often you can do this is questionable and the need to guard isnt there if you keep the counts low anyway. Would either like to see a counter to guard which would likely be in LOWMAGIC since you have to have low to even be an herbalist. And bards can take lowmagic but not rituals.

Krellan.. quit griefing so much...... Mitbulls and Elysiana.. try to behave although you seem to have both cooled down from eachother..... everyone else in general.. lets not have personal attacks please.

Trader bob dosn't sell all options, alchemy is needed perhaps more so than enchantments for an individual. Either way I'm willing to say alchemy is enchantments equal trade skill, one city based one commune based. The point is I don't see why communes get an additional advantage over herbs as well, nature guard is an unneeded imbalance.

I don't care if you strip harvest all the sparkles off every sphere but your home but it still dosn't change the fact that its an obvious mechanical imbalance.

The sigils argument is in fact valid. Nature users can't destroy guard, but they can harvest through it and sell the produce. But communes can't do anything about sigils at all.

Its not valid at all.

Enchantments=Alchemy

Communes can't mess with enchantments
Cities can't mess with alchemy
Cities can't mess with herbs
Communes can mess with herbs.

Alchemy can't be used against people though, nor can alchemists sabotage the alchemy of their enemies.

Just kill Krellen next time he tries guarding if you're all that worried about it. There's a fairly simple solution to stop all this whinging.

Enchanters can sabotage other enchants? There ya go alchemy. Both have herbs.. that cant be compared.. one has guard that cant be rivaled.. sigils can be rivaled because everyone can get them and has access to the by.. enchanters. Wow does that mean enchanting is a combo of alchemy and herbs characteristics? No! If you said it that way jewelers and tailors could be the same way.

Fact is Communes get alchemy... Cities get enchanting.. to then have a trade skill be usable by one and not the other IS an imbalance.. like I said.. new lowmagic skill to strip guard.. with power cost so people just stop TRYING to guard... although guard SHOULD get more use than griefing.. until guard is remvoed plant is protected and CANT be touched?

It's more factual to say that the game was not designed to have an absolute parallel from whichever angle you choose to view it from. For that, I'm thankful. The fact that so many people complain 'nerf' whenever they see a skill they dislike and fail to find an exact opposite of their own really irks me.

I dont dislike lack of opposites.. I can use damage kills and celestines can judge and vapors whore me.. doesnt matter. Its when trade which some people do EXCLUSIVELY that it becomes bad since you basically say.. you are now 100% unable to do what you do only.. those types of things since trade CAN and often is something people do exclusively.

Also love the avatar Quigy... Panic! At the Disco right?

Alchemy can be used against people, first of all restricting it from being bought is a very powerful thing to do, and it can be used offensivly via a few skills.

Enchanting=Alchemy
herbalism=herbalism
natureguard+herbalism>city herbalism

Nature guard is an imbalance.

Although Quigyboo does bring up a nice idea of a way to counter nature guard, what if nature guard stopped when the user died. It means people could counter it and nature users still could shut down non nature users if they were good enough. Not the fairest in the world as nature users still have an advantage but it still does mean that there is at least some sort of counter to it.

Spores.. no good way to catch them... spores can hope to any sphere even ones you cant normally get to

The first part isn't valid. You can't properly do it without coordinating 2 orgs, and even if you could you always have rogues/traitors/whatever.

The second might be valid if you explained it a bit better. Please elaborate. I'm assuming the methods you're thinking of match up to eyes, monoliths, the ability to remove both, etc. or you wouldn't have bothered to bring it up.

Just to put the issue on track.. and get it off of alchemy and enchantment before I head to bed.

To stop alchemy everyone would need to stop it who can do it...

To stop enchants everyone would need to stop it who can do it...

To stop sparkleberry -ONE- person need watch it, guard it, and strip it from all other places.

Made is clear.. handle the topic of Herbs and dont try to rub off onto other trades please. Nature and Herbs are the topic here.. nothing else.

Heres a quick one order @target sip absinthe, etc you can use alchemy offensivly theres a few more you can do even without a pooka.

And it is valid banning alchemy is one of the worst things you can do to people, its one of the most importat trade skills around and only is accessed by about 4 guilds right?

Alchemy is enchantments equal. I'd personally say alchemy is better but trade skill wise alchemy=enchantments, herbalism dosn't factor into that at all herbalism is its own skillset that is shared by communes and cities and I see no reason why nature users should get such a massive advantage, it would be like city users being able to stop commune users from harvesting certain animal poisions, its not needed, its just a plain imbalance.

Not without giving up bashing and fighting. On the other hand, Aiakon bashed and fought consistently for 40 years without sparkles.



Wee.. Enchantments=Alchemy=Water buffalo= The Seaside=Pink albatross. Wee

On a more serious note, how does Enchantments=Alchemy when they're completely different?

The same way that Nature Guard == Sigils.

IE, they don't.

= walrus

Not precisely...but I'd like to see both imbalances fixed. Ferlas' somewhat disingenuous "pookaing people to drink alcohol is an imbalance communes have over cities due to alchemy equivalent to the advantage cities have over communes due to sigils." I don't truly care if nature guard is changed, since it seems like people are overreacting to it in the face of that other thing...but I wouldn't mind, since it's fairly irrelevant. Ignoring everything else isn't convincing though.

EDIT: wtf aiakon?