Daganev2007-01-24 18:34:53
QUOTE(Demetrios @ Jan 24 2007, 10:11 AM) 376916
Yes, and that's why I'm not sure how this idea is going to be executed. Perhaps it will include some training; I don't know.
There are many civilians that work in the military, today, but I couldn't tell you what kind of orientation or training they have to go through to do that, if any. My only dealing with military procedure was actually being in the military.
But, for instance, if I needed blood work done, it was usually civilians that did it. Sometimes, briefings would include civilian contractors to give insight on a specific bit they were involved with. Things like that.
There are many civilians that work in the military, today, but I couldn't tell you what kind of orientation or training they have to go through to do that, if any. My only dealing with military procedure was actually being in the military.
But, for instance, if I needed blood work done, it was usually civilians that did it. Sometimes, briefings would include civilian contractors to give insight on a specific bit they were involved with. Things like that.
My brother in law is technically a civilian now, and works with military people. I can never tell when they say civilian if they mean civilian noobs, or just ex military.
Unknown2007-01-24 19:07:05
It is unlikely that the Civilian Reserve Corps would receive 0 training. Most likely, the training will very short, and focus on how to stay out of danger. Here is an exerpt from a report I just found on the subject, although it doesn't say much about training:
Source: http://www.refintl.org/files/8608_file_PKfunding.pdf
QUOTE
Support for Civilian Reserve Funding
• Maintaining a reserve corps of about 3,000 people (including funding necessary standby capacity within specific U.S. government agencies and offices) and sustaining it over time would have a recurrent cost of about $125 million.
A Civilian Reserve of personnel suitable for S&R operations is needed because the complex needs of peacebuilding efforts in post-conflict societies require a U.S. government response that goes beyond any one single department or agency. Developing a roster of people who can deploy to S&R operations is not difficult; the problem is their availability. The U.S. military essentially provides a standby capacity, in the sense that it trains and plans for particular missions and has the troops available to deploy quickly in the event of an emergency. In contrast, civilians who have critical knowledge and skills for S&R activities often have jobs they cannot easily leave.
If U.S. government civilian agencies are to quickly deploy people to S&R operations, the agencies must not have to make a choice between losing essential staff for normal operating functions and providing critical staff for a U.S. government S&R operation. Funding is needed to create spare personnel capacities in specific and relevant U.S. government civilian agencies to allow for whole of government participation in planning and implementing a holistic national strategy for S&R.
Another reason for developing a proper civilian reserve capacity is to avoid the use of contractors. For example, the U.S. government needs to be able to deploy police, police trainers, and rule of law experts to S&R operations. However, most of these capabilities are now deployed through contractual mechanisms. As a result, there is no common doctrine and no joint training in advance, leaving people deployed into situations essentially blind.
• Maintaining a reserve corps of about 3,000 people (including funding necessary standby capacity within specific U.S. government agencies and offices) and sustaining it over time would have a recurrent cost of about $125 million.
A Civilian Reserve of personnel suitable for S&R operations is needed because the complex needs of peacebuilding efforts in post-conflict societies require a U.S. government response that goes beyond any one single department or agency. Developing a roster of people who can deploy to S&R operations is not difficult; the problem is their availability. The U.S. military essentially provides a standby capacity, in the sense that it trains and plans for particular missions and has the troops available to deploy quickly in the event of an emergency. In contrast, civilians who have critical knowledge and skills for S&R activities often have jobs they cannot easily leave.
If U.S. government civilian agencies are to quickly deploy people to S&R operations, the agencies must not have to make a choice between losing essential staff for normal operating functions and providing critical staff for a U.S. government S&R operation. Funding is needed to create spare personnel capacities in specific and relevant U.S. government civilian agencies to allow for whole of government participation in planning and implementing a holistic national strategy for S&R.
Another reason for developing a proper civilian reserve capacity is to avoid the use of contractors. For example, the U.S. government needs to be able to deploy police, police trainers, and rule of law experts to S&R operations. However, most of these capabilities are now deployed through contractual mechanisms. As a result, there is no common doctrine and no joint training in advance, leaving people deployed into situations essentially blind.
Source: http://www.refintl.org/files/8608_file_PKfunding.pdf
Xenthos2007-01-24 23:17:25
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 24 2007, 12:59 PM) 376913
Currently, this is what the "good schools" do. That test is called the SATs. And for my AP classes, that test was called the AP exam.
The test that schools have to be geared towards these days, is so pathetically easy, that if people aren't passing them, there are some real problems.
The test that schools have to be geared towards these days, is so pathetically easy, that if people aren't passing them, there are some real problems.
I'd like a source on your first claim, please. I haven't been able to locate one that states that a school's Federal funding is based on how their students perform on the SAT or Advanced Placement classes, and I was under the impression that both tests are more for the student's academic career than the schools that teach them.
Thanks!
Daganev2007-01-24 23:31:42
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Jan 24 2007, 03:17 PM) 376997
I'd like a source on your first claim, please. I haven't been able to locate one that states that a school's Federal funding is based on how their students perform on the SAT or Advanced Placement classes, and I was under the impression that both tests are more for the student's academic career than the schools that teach them.
Thanks!
Thanks!
That is how private schools are compared. I'm saying before NCLB, teaching towards a specific test was what the prestigious schools did. A school got a good reputation based on how well the students did on the SATs and APs.
Unknown2007-01-25 00:14:24
As long as we get away from whatever California is doing for their education, and we don't do that crap where it's more important for the students to "feel good" about themselves than actually learn anything. I've heard of teachers saying crap like "it doesn't matter if your son can read, as long as he has a high self esteem". MORONIC IDOT FLAMING NITWIT! Without being able to read, he won't be able to function well, and will also be made fun of for not being able to read, and have a lower self esteem.
Unknown2007-01-25 00:17:45
Personally, I don't really like blurring the line between military and civilian, at all.
And is America planning to attack, invade and occupy more countries it doesn't like? Police trainers?
And is America planning to attack, invade and occupy more countries it doesn't like? Police trainers?
Daganev2007-01-25 00:21:46
QUOTE(Avaer @ Jan 24 2007, 04:17 PM) 377027
Personally, I don't really like blurring the line between military and civilian, at all.
And is America planning to attack, invade and occupy more countries it doesn't like? Police trainers?
And is America planning to attack, invade and occupy more countries it doesn't like? Police trainers?
Yes, we are. Your home town next.
This would actually unblur the line between civilian and military.
Currently you have many civilian mercenary/security groups who's only oversight is the money they receive from thier customers.
Especially in Africa these groups blur the line so much you don't know who is working for who sometimes.
Personally, it sounds like a good idea to me. Less contractor corruption. But that also reminds me that when bush said he wanted to double the emergency oil reesrves, I thought... "Hmm, does Halliburton own bulldozers also? most likely"
Xenthos2007-01-25 00:25:54
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 24 2007, 06:31 PM) 377002
That is how private schools are compared. I'm saying before NCLB, teaching towards a specific test was what the prestigious schools did. A school got a good reputation based on how well the students did on the SATs and APs.
Note that we are talking about the No Child Left Behind act, and the funding provided (or denied!) to public schools.
(And private schools using testing to compare themselves to one another doesn't exactly make it "right"... basing everything off of a test just encourages teachers to cater directly to that test when teaching-- that, or ordered to cater to the test by the school administration.)
Daganev2007-01-25 00:30:22
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Jan 24 2007, 04:25 PM) 377030
Note that we are talking about the No Child Left Behind act, and the funding provided (or denied!) to public schools.
(And private schools using testing to compare themselves to one another doesn't exactly make it "right"... basing everything off of a test just encourages teachers to cater directly to that test when teaching-- that, or ordered to cater to the test by the school administration.)
(And private schools using testing to compare themselves to one another doesn't exactly make it "right"... basing everything off of a test just encourages teachers to cater directly to that test when teaching-- that, or ordered to cater to the test by the school administration.)
*sigh*
Teaching towards a test is probably the best thing you can do. It makes sure that people actually know things, instead of just feeling good that they might know things. The better the test the better people will learn. Even just learning for the SAT's which is all about learning how to take that particular test, and less about the content of the test is better for people in the long run. It teaches many skills that currently I am happy that I learned.
Xenthos2007-01-25 00:38:15
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 24 2007, 07:30 PM) 377034
*sigh*
Teaching towards a test is probably the best thing you can do. It makes sure that people actually know things, instead of just feeling good that they might know things. The better the test the better people will learn. Even just learning for the SAT's which is all about learning how to take that particular test, and less about the content of the test is better for people in the long run. It teaches many skills that currently I am happy that I learned.
Teaching towards a test is probably the best thing you can do. It makes sure that people actually know things, instead of just feeling good that they might know things. The better the test the better people will learn. Even just learning for the SAT's which is all about learning how to take that particular test, and less about the content of the test is better for people in the long run. It teaches many skills that currently I am happy that I learned.
And... misses out on other things, as you yourself just said. Knowing how to take the test is fine... but you still need the other things as well.
Unknown2007-01-25 00:43:27
I say we need a balance between being able to pass standardized, comprehensive tests, and being able to perform life skills. With a well rounded education that focuses both on knowledge and skills, you get someone who is better able to adapt to the situations of the real world.
Daganev2007-01-25 00:45:29
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Jan 24 2007, 04:38 PM) 377039
And... misses out on other things, as you yourself just said. Knowing how to take the test is fine... but you still need the other things as well.
The only things that they miss out on, as far as I know are things like P.E. and Shop, which have been removed from schools almost completely these days anyways.
Daganev2007-01-25 00:46:03
QUOTE(Daruin @ Jan 24 2007, 04:43 PM) 377044
I say we need a balance between being able to pass standardized, comprehensive tests, and being able to perform life skills. With a well rounded education that focuses both on knowledge and skills, you get someone who is better able to adapt to the situations of the real world.
That was the concept during the 50s, and everyone seems to agree that it was too fascist.
Unknown2007-01-25 00:52:57
Er, fascicst? I'm not really sure how balancing education relates to that...
Edit: if they are too stringent on the requirements, then I can see it, but it's the same with tests in that case.
Edit: if they are too stringent on the requirements, then I can see it, but it's the same with tests in that case.
Xenthos2007-01-25 00:58:28
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 24 2007, 07:45 PM) 377045
The only things that they miss out on, as far as I know are things like P.E. and Shop, which have been removed from schools almost completely these days anyways.
You don't see how having one kind of education with a certain period of time allotted for a school year, and then deciding that you need to use a significant chunk of that time to prepare for tests that determine whether or not you can continue teaching kids in the future... just might leave out other things? I'll requote that little chunk from your post.
Even just learning for the SAT's which is all about learning how to take that particular test, and less about the content of the test
I will note that the whole sentence is opinion, and as such, it's all right to drop the rest of it-- I disagree that it's "better" to learn how to take one specific test.
Daganev2007-01-25 01:20:39
Because it just happened in game, and I think its appropriate.
Its like writing poetry.
Those poems with rigid structure are more about the form of the poem than the actual content. However in the end, you become a better writer because of it.
You can't do well on the SAT's without actually knowing the content, however you also can't do well on the SATs without knowing how to save time by immediately removing half the answers before you read the question.
It all depends on the test that you are working towards, however based on the low requirements I have seen from the current tests, If you are not able to teach other things because you are working on that test, AND your students are not able to pass that test, then I think something is wrong with what is being taught. If they are able to pass, then I would suggest maybe not spending so much time on it.
Its like writing poetry.
Those poems with rigid structure are more about the form of the poem than the actual content. However in the end, you become a better writer because of it.
You can't do well on the SAT's without actually knowing the content, however you also can't do well on the SATs without knowing how to save time by immediately removing half the answers before you read the question.
It all depends on the test that you are working towards, however based on the low requirements I have seen from the current tests, If you are not able to teach other things because you are working on that test, AND your students are not able to pass that test, then I think something is wrong with what is being taught. If they are able to pass, then I would suggest maybe not spending so much time on it.
Xenthos2007-01-25 02:00:22
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 24 2007, 08:20 PM) 377065
If they are able to pass, then I would suggest maybe not spending so much time on it.
And my point is... is that what's actually happening? If your funding is based entirely upon that test... would you risk doing ANYTHING else that has the POSSIBILITY of jeopardizing your future in your career (either teacher or school administration)? For some, yes. For others..?
Unknown2007-01-25 02:06:53
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Jan 24 2007, 06:00 PM) 377074
And my point is... is that what's actually happening? If your funding is based entirely upon that test... would you risk doing ANYTHING else that has the POSSIBILITY of jeopardizing your future in your career (either teacher or school administration)? For some, yes. For others..?
Is there ever going to be a system that will keep everyone straight? Or even the majority?
Xenthos2007-01-25 02:09:52
QUOTE(Daruin @ Jan 24 2007, 09:06 PM) 377076
Is there ever going to be a system that will keep everyone straight? Or even the majority?
And at the same time-- should there be a system instituted in such a way that it encourages those in charge to "game" it, at the expense of something which (most would agree) is important?
Vionne2007-01-25 05:37:00
Suggested alternatives are always helpful!