Ok, I didn't read all the replies.

I have a great suggestion that is in-line with this one:

The instant a Celestine steps foot on Nil, vaporize them. I mean, really... Celestine's on Nil? But, here's the catch.. don't make it work the opposite way. In fact, when a Magnagorian member steps on Celestia, let's boost all their stats by +2.

Seriously, people... seriously.

If this is even considered I'm out.

I don't understand. Are you trying to suggest that Athana's suggestion is unfair? If so, I fail to see how.

There are already mechanics in place to prevent this. You just don't use them.

I remember a specific instance where a large group of magnagorans raided Celestia. There was a moderate group of Celestians available, smaller than the raiding force, but they were mostly very young with little to no experience in combat.
Shrine effects were set, the plane was rippled and we went to attack.
We killed all the Magnagorans.

We didn't sit at the pool of stars and ask for a change so that we could sit on prime and smile all the time. We went to work with what we had available.

Why is there a recurring pattern with people who play Magnagoran characters asking for complete game mechanic changes at the VERY instance something happens they don't like instead of using some thinking out of the box and trying to work with what you've got?

In the instance that this thread was made because of, Magnagora had the upper hand on one occasion and could have easily finished off the Celestians had they used all the powers availbale to them. But instead-they want cosmic insanity

That still isn't in line with what she suggested...'cause she made it sound like it would work both ways!

And my suggestion is use all available resources already in place before asking for more.

That it works both ways doesn't really matter. It's a bad idea that will further nerf conflict and make things more boring. Plus it's completely unnecessary as the mechanics for what she wants already exist. They just don't want to use them.

You made a suggestion which you implied was comparable to Athana's. It was patently unfair, and biased towards Magnagora. The implication was that Athana's suggestion was an unfair one. Athana's suggestion was not unfair, as the same restrictions applied to both sides.

You have now, somehow, converted your point about fairness into one about using 'all available resources in place before asking for more'. This new point bears no relation to the old one.

I feel that your new point is as redundant as your old one. Athana is not asking for a new resource with which to repel raiders, she is asking for a mechanical change that will affect the raiding dynamic - bothways.

I agree.

I regard this as a strong instance of selective-memory-syndrome. This is an increasingly common condition in Celestians. The only cure is to go to the Idiots board and scroll back about twenty pages, and then read.

My thoughts exactly, just worded about a hundred times better then I could have done it.

Yes, my suggestion was made in jest, because I don't feel we need any more org defenses and whatnot, especially when you don't use the options currently available.

You've got Ripple and Shrine powers already. For what I hear, these weren't used, mainly because "it's too costly" and "we have a shield shrine, not a war shine" both of which can be easily fixed with the current set up.

It's like not wanting to use a knife to spread peanut butter on a sandwich, so you ask for someone else to do it for you.

Bottom line: You put in a "cosmic insantiy" and conflict in Lusternia is dead. People have always said they want conflict to move off-plane, and now that it is, it's too much? It's already been degraded far below what it used to be. Don't put that last straw on the camel's back.

How about... we as the player base, get together and realize there are more forms of conflict then Raid raid raid.... ahh defend defend, counter raid... defend... raid...

Conflict can happen with words as well, set up loose cease fires, truces, non-aggression agreements, and when something happens to threaten them, use the threat of force to enforce them etc...

A cold war, in which a chance for violence is always on the horizon is a hell of a lot more fun to RP in, then "Crap, need to hide off plane, I don't want to raid Nil right now... we did like 20 times today..."

Seriously, I would like this cosmic insanity in place simply because it might bop some of you hard enough that you realize you have other options.

Here's the thing Callia. Not everyone wants to RP some involved political cold war standoff. In fact to some people that is as boring as watching paint dry. Now I understand that raiding and PKing is not that much fun for everyone. In terms of raids, I don't think anyone is really bullied into participating in those but I can see how defending can be tiresome after awhile. There should be some restraint on the part of players to avoid it becoming too burdensome, however, forcing everyone to RP the United Nations is just...not cool.

Both sides raid each other as their want, and both sides already have certain passive mechanics that hinder raiding. Instead of adding in some extra passive means of controlling raiding, I believe we need to take our negative experiences from being on the receiving end of such entrench able raids, and then try to limit our raids to very specific objectives. What we do right now is hang around to kill as many defenders as possible, while on the side completing some objective like killing the demons/angels or the Tide/Earth Lords.

I have little hope that people will limit themselves. Empathy seems to be in short supply, and the only way it seems to get people to see there is a problem is to make them actually experience it.

This would mean people would have to think and make plans and goals. Its a long shot but I guess stranger things have happened.

You completely missed the point... I am not talking a United Nations where everyone has to fracking vote to decide if it is ok for Nation A to do something. What I am talking about is more like this:

Nation A and B have a truce... Nation C, and D have one too... Nation D is allied with A. C attacks D, and B helps C, A, takes the attacj on D as a violation of the truce, and attacks B. B scrambles to get the truce back up to prevent further attacks.

That whole fallout is what I was refering to as tension building. As a city, you need to decide how to act, do you maintain a truce, or do you think you can work with out it.

That is the one thing I like about Imperian over Lusternia, is in Imperian there is perpetual tension, but not all out total war, 24/7 year round.

That is essentially what you have with any organization besides Glomdoring/Serenwilde and Magnagora/Celest. Yes, the two opposite organizations are more likely to war than not but pretty much exactly what you described is what is going on between all the organizations besides those two.

It's there, it's just not as obvious as the more violent relations.

Well, I think I'm going to jump in here. As far as the whole argument of "we don't want to use shrine powers or ripple to defend because it's too expensive..." Well, the cosmic planes are the stem of the cities religious and political beliefs. In my/Daruin's opinion, defending that is worth all costs. He doesn't currently have access to any of those powers, but he will gladly go up and die defending Celestia. If he had access to those powers, and it was neccessary to use them, he would use them.

We don't need game mechanics for what you suggested, Callia. We already do have such tensions. There are Serens who help out Mags, for example, and in deciding whether to go to all out war with another group, alliances are already taken into account.