Nope.

All this whinging about choke is foolish, just because your system wont auto-cure in choke doesn't make it OP, it's the most clearly balanced skill you can have, I mean it hits AND slows EVERYONE, therefore it's clear to me that choke doesn't need changing, it's tick skills which are too powerful in choke that need changing... Perhaps anything that works on a tick timer will hit in choke half as often? Just an idea.

But those same tick skills are perfectly fine and worthwhile to use outside of choke and in no way overpowered.


So basically, choke is the amplifying factor that makes those skills seem overpowered. In that way, your same argument can be swung both ways. I personally don't know or care if choke is or isn't overpowered. I'm just saying, the same sort of logic can go both ways.

Succumb is OP in or out of Choke. Redcap is questionable.

No they aren't.



Then don't contribute to the thread.



Ciaran's post makes this point: The majority of complaints about choke are due to the complainant's inability to cure in it. Because it hits everyone in it, it is broadly fair as a skill. However, it might be made more fair if passive effects hit less frequently - in that instance there would be less of an advantage towards a fae-helped wiccan as against a warrior.

Your point appears to be arguing with Ciaran's... but I have absolutely no idea what you mean by it. What is there 'to go both ways'?

My point is that mainly, one could fix these skills and adjust them accordingly and still find choke to be insurmountable as a warrior and it could still seem overpowered. Likewise, one could fix or remove choke in some way and still find the skills within it just as overpowered before, as most everyone seems to agree that it's not choke itself, but choke amplifying the power of their tick skills.


In the way that choke affects things how it affects everyone the same and nearly all aspects of combat in it, it's fairly difficult to pin down for certain wether the problem is with choke itself or the abilities they have at their disposal in choke. Say we go about toning down all their abilities that make choke so powerful for them, then suddenly you've a guild that without using choke is completely helpless.


I think that in of itself is what makes choke such a big issue due to how truly difficult it is to balance an ability that can do what it does. It completely changes the pacing and tune of combat in a way, so many things that are perfectly fine outside of choke become ridiculously overpowered within it. It can turn a completely useless seeming ability by normal circumstances into really effective or the opposite of a really strong skill. So if we go about 'fixxing' things based on their performance in choke we upset the balance in the game in other aspects.

At Genevieve's post about flinging lovers to prevent ents from attacking, it works, tested it on Synl and the fae won't attack you, before being ordered and after, though I do not know if you will need to command them again after curing lover's curse.

I don't see how choke is overpowered with succumb, 3 power to drop choke then they have to use at least 4 power to have any chance of stopping me tumbling right out and if they don't use hexes then I'm just going to laugh and enjoy the pin leg locks in choke. So what if they succumb me they just used 7 to 9 power theres no chance they are going to get to toadcurse me if I'm not being totally stupid.



Heh or people could just not rely totally on system and learn to cure themselves. Choke's fine, redcap was ok with me and has got a downgrade so I'm not complaining, sucumb still needs to be looked at though it can waste people in three or four ticks which isn't hard to stick on someone and on the other hand some folk can sit and tank succmb without curing it for ages. It does need to be looked at maby make it a base rate of a few hundred plus a percentage of the targets mana to make it fairer across the board.

You assume one-on-one here. Most of this thread is talking about choke in group fights. Also, if the person drops choke and then succumbs, you will not be able to sip mana/etc very effectively. If they have fae on you (especially you as a warrior), you will not be able to regain your mana before they have the power to toadcurse. I'm not sure why you suggest that they would only get toadcurse on you if you're being stupid - they could quite easily outpace you for a few minutes with fae/hexes.

I also think people are overlooking an important point Zarquan brought up. I don't think we can argue that choke is unbalanced (except that it gives those with passive afflicting a large advantage over those who are only active). The greater concern is whether it's FUN to fight in choke. The consensus seems to be that if you're on the winning side, it's fun. Otherwise it's not.

Ya well to that, tons of stuff is overpowered in combination like inquisiton, barrier+(insert random lame combo), aeon and stun and so on.

EDIT: For your example if theres two shadowdancers hitting me in choke then their best bet isnt toadcurse. Toadcurse would give me a chance, if small, to hop away to safety but on the other hand they could just both keep me sleeping with two redcaps on me and I'd die fast anyway. I don't see succumb in choke as overpowered(except for succumb needed tweaking anyway)



I thought the consensus is that the majority of people havn't got a clue how to fight in choke and refuse to learn so will never learn if its fun or not?

I mean zarquan basically said I don't find it fun and I havn't got a clue how to fight in it, then later went on to say that he's starting to learn to fight in choke. You can't really say either way until you actually know how to work in it and also it just generally leads me to belive that people are bringing up the its not fun aspect in an attempt to get choke nerfed because all the over powered arguements got blown out of the water by half a dozen people, inculding warriors without choke. Can't really say you don't like chess when you don't know which way the little man on a horse moves can you.

If Choke were to slow down a Shadowdancer's fae.. what would be the point of using it? It would provide no advantage at all.

Don't ever blame the lack of people in the ebonguard on our skills. That is just silliness.

However, I will say that when it comes to commune fighting, warriors sort of get left behind because of the lack of flow.

But the ebonguard population limits is soley a matter of nobody contesting me, Bashara, or Hytrakos.

Bards don't have it either, only half of the communes have flow. Though I keep forgetting about them too. I thought the spiritsinger champion was a moondancer the other day, asked nejii to join her to a coven.

Bards don't fight anyways

I know how Choke works, and I know how I -should- cure in it. That doesn't mean I'm good at it. I also understand how the little man on the horse moves across the chess board, but I don't find chess fun at all.

Succumb drains mana extremely quickly, in or out of a choked room. It's more noticeable in a choked room because regaining the mana is slower (and power regen for the person who did the choke/succumb is not slowed, thereby giving them a little more room to prepare to toadcurse you). I've run out of mana so fast that I couldn't even focus body after being paralyzed from a hex.

Warriors are extremely active fighters, lacking the passive effects of other archetypes. We make up in defense (usually) what we lack in that initial offense. If a fight lasts for a minute or more, the warrior has the advantage as he builds up wounds on a person. Choke isn't fun for me because it doesn't let me get past the "hump" of the fight to where I gain the advantage on a person.

Obviously, your opinion of any ability or archetype in the game will be based on your own affiliation (i.e., perception). I know that I find it less fun to fight in the shadows, but I understand that others will find it great fun. My experience varies from yours, and that's okay.

Zarquan, what do you think of slowing the ticker timers 50% in choke? I feel like it would level the playing field.

..what would be the point of using it then? You'd be slowing fae down by like, what, 5-6 seconds? When players only get slowed down by 2? That would be an insane nerf to the skill, and I can't imagine anyone wanting to use it.

The idea is to keep the skill, but remove passive rape.. You can still doublewhammy lockdown, but you don't have such a huge advantage any more (especially over warriors)

The issue Shryke would be that Choke as it is affects group combat which is a double edged sword as duels between Narsrim and Diamante has shown. Aeon/Waning on the other hand is single target and does not affect the user negatively, passive effects help keep the aeon lock and is not slowed down at all in this case.

Slowing down the fae would help a warrior fight the Shadowdancer, obviously. With multiple fae, it wouldn't even be incredibly unbalancing, if you ask me. Still, I'm not sure if it's the answer to any of the complaints made regarding Choke.

Also, for whatever reason, the fae pretty much seem to hit me all at the very same time (quite spammy). Could it be changed that they're staggered a bit more? Or is it just that my perception of the timing is incorrect?