Exactly.

Succumb could be given it's own timer. A new timer could be created each time a person is hit with succumb, which ticks every four seconds afterwards until it is cured. Once it is cured, the timer is completely destroyed. This is how I assume balance/eq/demesnes/afflictions like amplifyphobia/etc. all work.

Bonenose is different. If the coders decided to add a separate timer to cure bones, when would the timer be started? Start a 2 second timer as soon as you're afflicted with a broken bone? The problem then is that every time anyone is afflicted with any broken bone, they have to check and see if that person has bonenose, and then create a 2 second timer. Each person could have an individual timer which is created when they get the bonenose def, which ticks every 4 seconds from that time, but that would increase processing and not really help them any, since they would have the same problem.

That's just because they're incompetent and die to my fae alone.

Trust me, I know how succumb-choking someone works, and with my normal setup (doublewhammy stupidity/paralysis, choke, doublewhammy sleep/sleep, hex with sleep, succumb, then follow up with other hexes) I have to wait for 5p to toadcurse. Even if I left out the initial doublewhammy and the person was too stupid to just walk out of the room, I'd still have to wait for the 3p because the doublewhammy sleep/sleep really isn't optional.



That's why you renew your aeon every so often. Recasting it resets the timer. Also, the timer depends on the phase of the moon, for MDs.

SD sleeplocks out of choke?
#TR {whammy message} {insomnia}

I've never out-of-choke sleeplocked someone with that trigger.

Use "normal hexes (along with pixie and pooka when necessary) to keep them asleep"? Um, #TR {wake message} {insomnia;stand;outr kafe;eat kafe;metawake on}?

EDIT: That trigger assumes that you have metawake up, which not everyone has even has. If you do, then you are losing mana in addition to succumb, so you may not even need the sleeplock to begin with. Also, you can time sleep/sleep doublewhammy to go off immediately after pixie hits, which would get past this.



There are theoretical ways around it, but the vast majority of people do not do it well - I sleeplocked plenty of people as an MD without using aeon to end it more quickly, and then switched to aeon if and when I had to. Also, if you can make the person trigger to eat kafe (lose herb balance) and raise metawake, you're that much closer to half mana. Hit with succumb immediately after that, and you're still well ahead of their curing. If you actually got succumb on them while they were sleeping, then either they choose to raise all of these defenses, or they cure succumb first - all the while you're afflicting them up with other stuff and/or damaging their health.

Trust me on this. Succumb can be timed to work right. It works for many other things (as Derian said), and it could have worked for BoneNose, too. It's not the code that's the constraining factor. It's the coders' knowledge and/or time.

The issue isn't even the Choke combined with Succumb, from what I see. It's the passive nature of Succumb and the fact that it's a delayed cure AND hits for the roughly same amount as the active Lash ability. If you want the initial hit to drain mana, then take away the delay for the cure. It'll still be more powerful than Lash whenever your victim has other afflictions they're curing before the Succumb (not smart, maybe, but who knows what their priority is at that moment?)...

If it retains the initial hit, draining about the same as lash, AND has the passive portion, how is that not a better skill?

Its better, but wanning is also better than choke.

trade you choke for waning

Deal! I'd finally be able to kill people before they have a chance to leave the room!

not a chance. ash had some quote about 3 people waning. well we had three people waning cause we couldn't stick it. that's how easily it's cured. actually a lucky astrologer could afflict with aeon better. if it was the right person. cause one ray casting is faster and two you can double cast the same ray so sort of like a double aeon tarot fling.

Nope. In that quote, he didn't cure it at all in that time between afflictions. If even ONE of you had moonbursted, he'd have died. He was at 600 or so health.

Raze removes speed defense, so I know I have atleast 1 second of them not moving out of the room, add to that a stun hit to the chest, and I've got enough time to hit them for a second combo, and since my goal is to kill people in the 2.8K health range, thats plenty!

So you're saying waning is better than choke...for WARRIORS trying to kill people with LESS than 3000 health.

Ok.

Meanwhile, wiccans have to actually try to stick afflictions -before- they can use their damage/mana draining skills (more often the latter due to poor moonburst damage and the fact damage wakes them up) and have to actually maintain their aeon, plus you can't actually stick it if people can cure.

It will help with many instances, but specifically, to kill a person before they have a chance to leave the room, is what I was particuallry interested. And I say less than 3,000 health, because thats how much the people who tend to annoy me to the point of wanting to kill them before they leave the room, have.

You are not seriously trying to say 'succumb is fine because MD's have waning'...right?

I don't know what idea you have of getting aeon to stick, but trust me it's not that easy. Matter of fact as non mugwump is close to impossible (unless your target absolutely sucks at curing). And even as mugwump, waning is hardly that much of an advantage (in 1 vs 1 for lashing etc) as you make it out to be and it certainly doesn't indirectly 'increase' how much you can lash for.

The fact remains that because succumb is a passive drain (while doing the SAME damage as lash which is active), has a delayed cure and will in over 50% of the cases drain -double- mana within 2+ to <3 seconds of it's casting it is simply much stronger than lash (even if judging by it's drain numbers alone and in THEORY it looks the same as lash. Problem is, in a real fight it simply isn't.)

Atop of that the tic speed of succumb seems to average around the 3.5 seconds. Which in most cases will be mugwump speed thus giving it another edge over lash for any other race than mugwump. (Exact mugwump speed is 2.8-3.0 however if you value in sever lag and hit-key speed of most people you're likely going to average out at ~3.2+. Succumb won't 'lag' that way.)

I stand by what I said earlier that for succumb having all these advantages AND draining as much as lash at a slightly faster pace at normal balance is just too much.

PS: @Daganev if you personally would prefer waning that's fine. But most of the game actually has >3000 health so.. what you said can't be taken as a general statement. If everyone had <3000 I'd just go for damage kills. >_<

succumb is better than lash
choke is better than waning. hands down. I'm not even gonna start about it cause it's been talked to much, but besides the good old combat, it has a ridiculous good use for other things too

Choke is good, however unlike wane it -can- turn into a two-edged sword. The thing with choke is that it mixes up the -entire- battlefield and the entire way the fight has to happen. It's like a trump card that can turn the tide entirely again.

If you use it in an intelligent manner and also have time to set up the trap yes it can turn into a 'I win' card in most cases. If your opponent knows how to deal with it though you might kill yourself with it (there aren't many that do yet though, so I'm more or less for a wait-and-see here even though I personally hate to have to fight in it).

And lastly, this discussion is about succumb. Back to topic!

yes well in the other utility manner I was mentioning, it's not a two-edged sword. it's a completely one sided advantage. course I didn't actually say what I was talking about

Daganev is also speaking as a warrior, and Waning is definitely better for them. Without a passive offense, most other people are going to be able to screw you if you drop choke. For 'dancers, unless you really don't have a feel for when to choke and when not to, it should be decidedly better.

Do you know how often I died because Sham or Diamante dropped choke at the wrong moment?