Diamondais2007-02-17 20:58:44
It's still kinda neat.
If you don't get disconnected and put in the Portal of Fate attached to it still.
If you don't get disconnected and put in the Portal of Fate attached to it still.
Ixion2007-02-17 21:02:28
QUOTE(Genevieve @ Feb 14 2007, 04:13 PM) 383283
Does anyone know if the construct battles happened this morning?
A thunderous burst of sound erupts from the centre of the Iron Tower of Harmony, rolling in heavy
waves that cause the Phaetan Kytac of Celest to teeter dangerously when struck dead centre.
With a final shudder, the Phaetan Kytac of Celest falls to bits, causing you to tumble out of it as
debris rains down around you.
QUOTE(Catarin @ Feb 17 2007, 03:14 PM) 384143
I agree with the above. Celest decided to try it to help test out the bugs and such mainly and see what it was like. Noticed several problems in the time we were there.
Firstly, if a group gets in there and great pentagrams and blocks properly, then the defenders have no chance of getting in. Which results in a pretty boring staring match watching the colossi and construct beat on each other. A way to stop this tactic would be allowing exit from the construct/colossi into the room, bypassing the pentagram. Not much way to stop city defenders from just great pentagraming and a monolith to avoid the attackers ever getting a chance to put up a colossi at all. Could just make it that when the constructs are in play, certain skills of that nature don't work.
Good point, though we did find a way to get around greater pent to remove you all from our nexus world and win the fight. Greaterpent needs a better way to get around.
Secondly, as Anisu said, if one of the attackers dies, you need a ship and someone who knows how to pilot to get them back. Could solve this with a dedicated commander who does nothing but ferry attackers back and forth but that's easily stopped by blocking the dock with a warship and blowing them up. Anisu's suggestion will likely prompt more aetherbattles which would be nice. Alternatively, if defenders manage to put up a colossi maybe that should enable some way to quickly travelling back to it. Defenders would still have an advantage in that they could enter back in from presumably a less hostile point.
Piloting back to a bubble should take no more than a minute or two tops if the pilot is good.
Thirdly, this just turns into another meld vs. meld situation. Can we make the nexus worlds unmeldable?
Well, it's just like any other defense situation. Demesnes are part of the game, but yeah it's annoying
Fourthly, can the people on the ground have some way to see how things are going? All the attacks look the same so besides constantly bugging the operator it's just a matter of. "Huh, hope things are going well"
There already is a way (not very informative though) to tell.
Finally, this is very expensive! There is not a lot of incentive for an organization to actually build a colossi and go after a construct. There's the defeat of your opponent but in the end you probably spend more defeating them than they did putting up the construct in the first place. If it gained your organization something tangible maybe more people would feel inclined to do it. Agreed, for sure.
Firstly, if a group gets in there and great pentagrams and blocks properly, then the defenders have no chance of getting in. Which results in a pretty boring staring match watching the colossi and construct beat on each other. A way to stop this tactic would be allowing exit from the construct/colossi into the room, bypassing the pentagram. Not much way to stop city defenders from just great pentagraming and a monolith to avoid the attackers ever getting a chance to put up a colossi at all. Could just make it that when the constructs are in play, certain skills of that nature don't work.
Good point, though we did find a way to get around greater pent to remove you all from our nexus world and win the fight. Greaterpent needs a better way to get around.
Secondly, as Anisu said, if one of the attackers dies, you need a ship and someone who knows how to pilot to get them back. Could solve this with a dedicated commander who does nothing but ferry attackers back and forth but that's easily stopped by blocking the dock with a warship and blowing them up. Anisu's suggestion will likely prompt more aetherbattles which would be nice. Alternatively, if defenders manage to put up a colossi maybe that should enable some way to quickly travelling back to it. Defenders would still have an advantage in that they could enter back in from presumably a less hostile point.
Piloting back to a bubble should take no more than a minute or two tops if the pilot is good.
Thirdly, this just turns into another meld vs. meld situation. Can we make the nexus worlds unmeldable?
Well, it's just like any other defense situation. Demesnes are part of the game, but yeah it's annoying
Fourthly, can the people on the ground have some way to see how things are going? All the attacks look the same so besides constantly bugging the operator it's just a matter of. "Huh, hope things are going well"
There already is a way (not very informative though) to tell.
Finally, this is very expensive! There is not a lot of incentive for an organization to actually build a colossi and go after a construct. There's the defeat of your opponent but in the end you probably spend more defeating them than they did putting up the construct in the first place. If it gained your organization something tangible maybe more people would feel inclined to do it. Agreed, for sure.
Zynna2007-02-17 21:03:04
Idea:
If your colossus wins, you get an item from the other city/commune’s construct, which would be an upgrade for your own construct. Something neat that could not be achieved except by beating another construct and could not be activated except by building your own construct. And perhaps it would be a different upgrade depending upon whose city or commune you beat.
If the construct beats a city/commune’s colossus, perhaps a lesser upgrade -- But a different upgrade than they would obtain if they went and beat that city/commune’s construct.
If your colossus wins, you get an item from the other city/commune’s construct, which would be an upgrade for your own construct. Something neat that could not be achieved except by beating another construct and could not be activated except by building your own construct. And perhaps it would be a different upgrade depending upon whose city or commune you beat.
If the construct beats a city/commune’s colossus, perhaps a lesser upgrade -- But a different upgrade than they would obtain if they went and beat that city/commune’s construct.
Genevieve2007-02-17 21:12:08
How about if you destroy a construct, your nexus is beamed half the power that was required to build the construct originally. That would make it worth while.
Catarin2007-02-17 21:21:33
QUOTE(Ixion @ Feb 17 2007, 02:02 PM) 384168
Piloting back to a bubble should take no more than a minute or two tops if the pilot is good.
You need a pilot with a whistle available or you're going to run out of ships. Sadly the ship doesn't come home with you when you die. Technically, it takes less than three seconds with a prepared commander.
Ixion2007-02-17 21:23:55
QUOTE(Catarin @ Feb 17 2007, 04:21 PM) 384175
You need a pilot with a whistle available or you're going to run out of ships. Sadly the ship doesn't come home with you when you die. Technically, it takes less than three seconds with a prepared commander.
Well sure, but you won't have power to sustain that for more than a couple times. I think the logical conclusion is that you need to have a solid plan with a lot of manpower on the front end to be able to destroy one convincingly.
Edit: Due to a misunderstanding and misleading scroll (thanks Oneiroi and Fain for clearing it up for us ), you all actually had a sizable advantage for the first half of the fight strictly regarding personnel.
Unknown2007-02-17 21:32:00
QUOTE(Catarin @ Feb 12 2007, 12:33 AM) 382521
I don't really see it that at all Wesmin. I understand things are probably different in the Ethereal but attacks on the Cosmic beings are extremely rare as it is. It takes a very large force and a lot of motivation to take them on and most of the time that sort of force is simply not available and that is not even taking into account the defenders.
Alright, I'll admit that. From the commune perspective though, even though the Champions are less important they are still something we can work towards which takes awhile, and something our enemies get to destroy to make their tasks easier. Night or Moon, whatever the Ladies and Daughters are targeted daily, and they take awhile to build back up. Internal security aside, they're also nice to influence, even if they're not Friendly anymore. (What did I hear about some idiots seducing them to attack their own commune members? Shame on you whoever you were!)QUOTE(Catarin @ Feb 17 2007, 03:14 PM) 384143
I agree with the above. Celest decided to try it to help test out the bugs and such mainly and see what it was like. Noticed several problems in the time we were there.
Firstly, if a group gets in there and great pentagrams and blocks properly, then the defenders have no chance of getting in.
That's something I was wondering about too. That needs to be changed somehow I believe. Greater pent in general needs some tweeks.Firstly, if a group gets in there and great pentagrams and blocks properly, then the defenders have no chance of getting in.
I really don't think that attackers should be given a quick way into another’s nexus world though, as people have pointed out there are ways around having to fly back anyway. The Empath skills is a nice catch-all, works even for those non trans-planar people, but actually I can think of one or two good ones no one even mentioned, available to all.
I think if attackers were given easy access nexus world conflict would become very tiresome for defenders. Home turf should give defenders an advantage, and for the most part it really doesn't, I'm glad that it actually does in nexus worlds
Catarin2007-02-17 21:34:37
QUOTE(Ixion @ Feb 17 2007, 02:23 PM) 384176
Well sure, but you won't have power to sustain that for more than a couple times. I think the logical conclusion is that you need to have a solid plan with a lot of manpower on the front end to be able to destroy one convincingly.
Disagree about the power as a full ship can jump 20 times before its drained but I agree with the rest, primarily the manpower. Beyond that it isn't really much different than any other fight. It'd be a lot more interesting without melds though!
Like the idea for upgrade items for your own constructs quite a bit. Win enough battles and you could have some really nice constructs!
Estarra2007-02-17 21:41:42
How about:
-Allow the colossus to be built anywhere on the enemy nexus world and allow it to walk. However, it won't walk into a room where there's another colossus of its type. Thus, it can walk past greater pentagrams, through demesnes, etc., carrying an army inside of course. (Sorry, we aren't going to disallow melds on nexus worlds.)
-If a colossus destroys an enemy construct, it could give the winner half the power or maybe all the power or maybe a random amount. In the case of the harmony constructs, that's 25k-50k power!
Thanks to those who did battle today to test the system out in a "real world" situation. I know there were gripes about the cost and a few things were a little rough around the edges, but overall I think it shows a lot of promise. There are a few tweaks and whatnot that we've pinpointed that we could hopefully get to before the next weakening.
Nexus world battles should (hopefully) allow a focus on conflicts that isn't overly burdensome to cities and communes, where these organizations can choose to participate or not. Its also meant to be the main platform for aetherspace conflict (we haven't implemented everything on that matter yet BTW). The more we can move the harsher conflict onto the nexus worlds and away from raids, the more we will do so.
Of importance, of course, is releasing constructs that organizations do want and are willing to pay for the gold/power cost. There's been some good ideas listed on this thread and I'll be going through them to see what we may actually want to implement. Keep the ideas coming!
-Allow the colossus to be built anywhere on the enemy nexus world and allow it to walk. However, it won't walk into a room where there's another colossus of its type. Thus, it can walk past greater pentagrams, through demesnes, etc., carrying an army inside of course. (Sorry, we aren't going to disallow melds on nexus worlds.)
-If a colossus destroys an enemy construct, it could give the winner half the power or maybe all the power or maybe a random amount. In the case of the harmony constructs, that's 25k-50k power!
Thanks to those who did battle today to test the system out in a "real world" situation. I know there were gripes about the cost and a few things were a little rough around the edges, but overall I think it shows a lot of promise. There are a few tweaks and whatnot that we've pinpointed that we could hopefully get to before the next weakening.
Nexus world battles should (hopefully) allow a focus on conflicts that isn't overly burdensome to cities and communes, where these organizations can choose to participate or not. Its also meant to be the main platform for aetherspace conflict (we haven't implemented everything on that matter yet BTW). The more we can move the harsher conflict onto the nexus worlds and away from raids, the more we will do so.
Of importance, of course, is releasing constructs that organizations do want and are willing to pay for the gold/power cost. There's been some good ideas listed on this thread and I'll be going through them to see what we may actually want to implement. Keep the ideas coming!
Laysus2007-02-17 21:50:26
I have to say the added complexity is kinda putting me off :/
Estarra2007-02-17 22:00:57
QUOTE(Laysus @ Feb 17 2007, 01:50 PM) 384183
I have to say the added complexity is kinda putting me off :/
What added complexity? Give us ideas to make it work!
Estarra2007-02-17 22:09:29
In no particular order and without comment on whether these are doable or not, these are construct ideas I noticed on this thread:
Ethereal Strength
Makes avatars/aspects invulnerable and doubles the strength of ladies/daughter
Cosmic Strength
Makes Demon Lords/Supernals involnerable, doubles the strength of demons/angels.
Homing Beacon
Reduce the time to teleport nexus by 25 - 50 %
Discretionary Power Reduction
Drops the cost for certain discretionary powers to 0 and allows guild protectors to those discretionary powers.
"Seeing Eye"
Sort of like a giant crystal ball and enables scry/window at its location but with its own balance (i.e. the construct itself has a balance to using the ability), disregarding planar separation rules.
Dreaming Tree
Gvies a mild attack to -enemied- dreamweavers who go within X rooms of a nexus
Regen
Gives level 3 regen on mana, ego, and health at the nexus. (Again for novices- let's them heal up rather then use potions/sleep/med). Also lets bards keep their song going for now mana cost.
Astralbridge
ASTRALGLIDE to all members for free
Moonlit/Darkened Willow
Halves the amount of fae needed to create a Daughter/Lady.
Fog Mirror
Doubles the amount of ethereal creatures that appear in Ethereal plain.
Silver Flame/Bleak Puddle
Some fae now have brave soul/greedy, making them easier to influence by one commune and harder for another.
Tome of Understanding
Allows citizens to learn 20 lessons at a time, rather than 15.
Disc of Water/Earth/Forest/Wyrd
Increases the maximum demesne size of mages/druids by 1.
Undead Construct for Magnagora
Allows Magnagorans to take the form of some type of undead.
Planar Binding
Prevents city/commune enemies from using transplanar objects (prisms, cubixes, medallions) inside your city/commune or on the ethereal area or cosmic plane attached to your city/commune.
Enhanced Nexus Teleport I
Lets members of your city/commune teleport nexus on any non-astral plane where your city/commune has a nexus.
Enhanced Nexus Teleport II
A construct to reduce teleport cost to 1p, tesseract cost to 3p, changes energylink efficiency from 2:1 to 3:2 or 4:3.
Village Tithing Construct
A construct to increase the tithes of villages under your city/commune's control.
Conglutination Construct
A common construct that lets you have org conglut on Ether-glom/Ether-seren/water&celestia/earth&nil?
Ethereal Strength
Makes avatars/aspects invulnerable and doubles the strength of ladies/daughter
Cosmic Strength
Makes Demon Lords/Supernals involnerable, doubles the strength of demons/angels.
Homing Beacon
Reduce the time to teleport nexus by 25 - 50 %
Discretionary Power Reduction
Drops the cost for certain discretionary powers to 0 and allows guild protectors to those discretionary powers.
"Seeing Eye"
Sort of like a giant crystal ball and enables scry/window at its location but with its own balance (i.e. the construct itself has a balance to using the ability), disregarding planar separation rules.
Dreaming Tree
Gvies a mild attack to -enemied- dreamweavers who go within X rooms of a nexus
Regen
Gives level 3 regen on mana, ego, and health at the nexus. (Again for novices- let's them heal up rather then use potions/sleep/med). Also lets bards keep their song going for now mana cost.
Astralbridge
ASTRALGLIDE to all members for free
Moonlit/Darkened Willow
Halves the amount of fae needed to create a Daughter/Lady.
Fog Mirror
Doubles the amount of ethereal creatures that appear in Ethereal plain.
Silver Flame/Bleak Puddle
Some fae now have brave soul/greedy, making them easier to influence by one commune and harder for another.
Tome of Understanding
Allows citizens to learn 20 lessons at a time, rather than 15.
Disc of Water/Earth/Forest/Wyrd
Increases the maximum demesne size of mages/druids by 1.
Undead Construct for Magnagora
Allows Magnagorans to take the form of some type of undead.
Planar Binding
Prevents city/commune enemies from using transplanar objects (prisms, cubixes, medallions) inside your city/commune or on the ethereal area or cosmic plane attached to your city/commune.
Enhanced Nexus Teleport I
Lets members of your city/commune teleport nexus on any non-astral plane where your city/commune has a nexus.
Enhanced Nexus Teleport II
A construct to reduce teleport cost to 1p, tesseract cost to 3p, changes energylink efficiency from 2:1 to 3:2 or 4:3.
Village Tithing Construct
A construct to increase the tithes of villages under your city/commune's control.
Conglutination Construct
A common construct that lets you have org conglut on Ether-glom/Ether-seren/water&celestia/earth&nil?
Genevieve2007-02-17 22:10:22
Yay, Estarra liked one of my ideas!
Unknown2007-02-17 22:16:32
Some Construct ideas...
1) Mirrored Obelisk - Protects members of your organization from being scried. When attempted, the scier sees their own location.
2) Sphere of Aetheric Repulsion - Prevents aetherbeasts from entering the area near your city and nexus world's docks
3) Memory of the Longest Night - Enemies of Glomdoring cannot use power feats within its territory. Exception is during the Weakening.
3) Engine of Transformation - Any and all corpses can be put into the Mag Nexus world to generate a small amount of power and karma. Limit of so much power per weave. After the limit is reached, produces extra karma, or maybe some gold?
4) Heart of the Sea - All Celestians are protected from waves in the sea, can dive, walk on water, and breathe under water.
5) Lunar Clock - Doubles the rate of growth of trees in the Serenwilde
6) Starbourne Tower - Allows an Astrologer to cast Stellium as if it were the.. whatever its called, where all the planets are in the same sign, so long as they are in their org territory. Spheres on org members have twice the duration and twice the effect.
1) Mirrored Obelisk - Protects members of your organization from being scried. When attempted, the scier sees their own location.
2) Sphere of Aetheric Repulsion - Prevents aetherbeasts from entering the area near your city and nexus world's docks
3) Memory of the Longest Night - Enemies of Glomdoring cannot use power feats within its territory. Exception is during the Weakening.
3) Engine of Transformation - Any and all corpses can be put into the Mag Nexus world to generate a small amount of power and karma. Limit of so much power per weave. After the limit is reached, produces extra karma, or maybe some gold?
4) Heart of the Sea - All Celestians are protected from waves in the sea, can dive, walk on water, and breathe under water.
5) Lunar Clock - Doubles the rate of growth of trees in the Serenwilde
6) Starbourne Tower - Allows an Astrologer to cast Stellium as if it were the.. whatever its called, where all the planets are in the same sign, so long as they are in their org territory. Spheres on org members have twice the duration and twice the effect.
Shamarah2007-02-17 22:24:13
Presence of Moon/Night: Need one less coven member to perform a coven ability (ie. rage/terror takes 4 people instead of 5), lets you drawdown/nightkiss during the day
Inscription Machine: Inscribes tarots/runes for you if you give it the blank cards/runes and the palettes/tinctures.
Construct of Planar Binding: Doubles health of SUMMONED fae/angels/demons.
Sphere of the Harmonious Mind: Grants a fourth city/commune influence skill.
Many-Faceted Fountain: City construct, gives alchemic refills (power/gold cost for using?)
Everlasting Cube: Commune construct, gives enchantment recharges (power/gold cost for using?)
Inscription Machine: Inscribes tarots/runes for you if you give it the blank cards/runes and the palettes/tinctures.
Construct of Planar Binding: Doubles health of SUMMONED fae/angels/demons.
Sphere of the Harmonious Mind: Grants a fourth city/commune influence skill.
Many-Faceted Fountain: City construct, gives alchemic refills (power/gold cost for using?)
Everlasting Cube: Commune construct, gives enchantment recharges (power/gold cost for using?)
Xenthos2007-02-17 22:43:33
QUOTE(Estarra @ Feb 17 2007, 05:09 PM) 384189
Silver Flame/Bleak Puddle
Some fae now have brave soul/greedy, making them easier to influence by one commune and harder for another.
Some fae now have brave soul/greedy, making them easier to influence by one commune and harder for another.
This is a REALLY BAD idea, because Fae will not be any harder to influence for Serenwilde (same difficult to empower a Friendly / Greedy-- friendly is weak to begging, not empowerment), but impossible for Glomdoring (cannot weaken a Brave spirit).
Anarias2007-02-17 22:57:58
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Feb 17 2007, 03:43 PM) 384197
This is a REALLY BAD idea, because Fae will not be any harder to influence for Serenwilde (same difficult to empower a Friendly / Greedy-- friendly is weak to begging, not empowerment), but impossible for Glomdoring (cannot weaken a Brave spirit).
I think its a bad idea in general to monkey with the attitudes such that the fae would become impossible to influence altogether by anyone.
Unknown2007-02-17 23:20:44
3(the first three, your numbers are doubled), Wow, permanent Long Night but even better! That would need to cost a lot of power each weave, to be balanced, imo, as it's essentially god mode.
Actually I would love to see constructs like this, as long as the severely overpowered ones had severely large build costs. Would glom pay 400,000 power to raise this construct, in addition to 5000 power each weave?
Actually I just thought up an idea.
Actually it’s too good, I’m going to make a plots post about it.
Actually I would love to see constructs like this, as long as the severely overpowered ones had severely large build costs. Would glom pay 400,000 power to raise this construct, in addition to 5000 power each weave?
Actually I just thought up an idea.
Actually it’s too good, I’m going to make a plots post about it.
Laysus2007-02-18 00:14:49
QUOTE(Estarra @ Feb 17 2007, 10:00 PM) 384188
What added complexity? Give us ideas to make it work!
It's more the added complexity to the game, having to keep track of all these extra bits on top of everything else I do.
Razenth2007-02-18 05:13:52
Would it be bad of me to wish that anyone could use the LISTCONSTRUCTS command and see what they do?