Geez, stop with the drama. So you got killed for being impolite to someone. That's Magnagora. They do that kind of thing in Magnagora. Either suck it up, or go to Celest or Serenwilde where you're not allowed to kill citizens.

The accusation that AIAKON, of all people, is a griefer was rather funny though.

I could go on all day and get nowhere with this. It is only obvious the side of the seasoned player will be taken over a newbie, so I am cutting my losses and leaving.

Just to reiterate, while I think what he did was both pathetic and thuggish, my main gripe was after being spoken to like that, I was told by a member of my own guild that -I- was in the wrong.

The way things work around here are just totally not what I expected, and for the sake of future newbies, really need to be changed.

Regardless of things that have been said, the bottom line is Person A rudely 'orders' Person B. Person B asks Person A to ask nicer and gets slain. Person B is in the wrong.

Egotism, immaturity, bullying and thuggery come to mind and not from a single person but that just seems to be the whole picture with regards most organisations.

With that, to those I got to know, you will surely be missed. Those I had yet to meet, I am sorry it could not happen, and the remainders...well...I will keep my comments to myself on that.

-Jeisha

Well, that's the British for you.

I understand how you could feel negatively about what happened to you, but making a big public display about leaving and laying this laundry list of very extreme traits at the feet of someone who did something in-game to you that you didn't like...

With all due respect, and not challenging the legitimacy of your complaint, I think you have some OOC issues to take care of before you start playing games like this. I don't think they'll be healthy for you.

Firstly, I know nothing about you and vice-versa. Quite how you have the audacity to question my integrity without knowing a single thing about me.

Secondly, who the hell do you think you are making a personal and racist attack against my person? You do not even deserve a reply, though for the sake of other interested parties, I will make a final statement.

Playing games like this? Let it be known I have been playing IRE games for over 4 years, thusly, I am more than experienced enough to make informed decisions such as these.

I am not getting into any further discussion on this matter. I am gone, let it be. Ignore the thread, do whatever as there will be more input from me from this point forward.

I have made my feelings clear and now I am done.

Wait what!?

On a side note: The OOC issues he's talking about is the level of maturity it takes to break IC actions from OOC feelings.

Example: "Okay, I just got killed, my CHARACTER is pissed, but you know what? It happens, that's the game. Nothing I base on being OOC right/wrong matters here, it's up to the organization whether or not Aiakon is in the right. We do not have some OOC standard by which all is set. (Though I still think we should have those geneva things)

That is all.

Thread should've been closed here, since Aiakon obviously wins it with that little gem.

Oh, and yes, I didn't really have the context. I assumed it was some random idiot (Jeisha made it seem like it was someone just asking for a piggyback ride to Earth, being asked for politeness and jumped - I'd like to think there is more to it, yes?)

ETA: Catarin's suggestion is bizarre... so from now on whenever one wants to do something harmful to another he has to message them asking permission? I don't think anyone asks permission to raid, why should roleplay situations be any different?

I believe she refers to my statement about the British, which was actually a joke about Aiakon. In fairness to her, I thought there was a high probability of being misinterpreted, but I appreciated the possible ambiguity and left it.

This might be a good occasion for interested parties to review this thread.

If you'll read the suggestion it was not actually this at all. It was a comment that perhaps if you RP something of this nature with a new player you could message them oocly so they realize what's going on and why. It would be silly to do it in every RP situation but helping newer players get their RP feet doesn't really hurt anyone.

And even though it wasn't my suggestion, yes there are some RP situations that you would obviously want OOC permission before playing out but that doesn't really have anything to do with this situation.

Should I OOC message newbies being trained before I raid and interrupt their training?

You're clearly just being contrary at this point.

Just because I'm being contrary doesn't mean I'm wrong.

10 hours a day, 3 days....

If you have played the game for 30 hours, you're not a novice. Idleing? Your fault.

And lastly...


In a city where peons matter less than dirt, I see nothing wrong with that. Especially when you pay almost no penalty (as someone who's been playing IRE for years, you should especially know that).

In the end, I really have no sympathy for you. .

I think it is funny for all we talk of role play. That one of the main arguments is "Oh I just killed her, that's not that bad." Since she just congluted and so on. It makes death so pointless and so obvious that everything is about hurting XP.

It is okay to kill people in the city/commune because they don't lose much xp. Thinking that way just seems ooc to me though.

Death as a punishment for something minor just seems silly to me. If someone in your city or commune has done something so bad that they deserve death shouldn't that also be outcitizened and enemied?



Ah well.

I'm kinda annoyed that she got driven away because Aiakon couldn't even give the new player a chance. I'd say that given the situation, he shouldn't have killed her unless she was fully aware of the situation she was in, and the heirarchy and strictness thereof in Mag.
I spent a fair amount of time helping her out when she was Seren, and she's a friend from Aetolia to boot, so 1) any time spent helping her out went byebye, 2) a perfectly decent person got driven away by what I would describe as overzealousness.

Bleh.

So Aiakon, we haven't interacted much IC, but based on some of our OOC interactions, your Forums posts, and the hilarious and well-written stuff you publish, I hope you know that I have a lot of respect for you.
That being said, I think you're missing something here, so let me give you my view.

Point one: It's great that we have an organization in the game with such harsh IC standards. I would love to roleplay a part of an organization where it's obey or die (as long as the intermediate order-givers are also accountable with their lives if they abuse their rank). In fact I like it when New Celest gets more like this: yes we're good and holy and love the Light - so serve the Light (in this specific way) or be branded a heretic. So I think right up to the point where you killed Jeisha, everything's good - it's afterwards where it went off the rails....

Point two: Strangely enough, not every person in the RL world automatically knows this is the atmosphere they should expect. New players often have to be taught, and that's our job.

Point three: Ideally, when there's a conflict between two characters that the players get upset about, then the two players should contact each other and discuss it, maybe agree to disagree, but at best both end up understanding both viewpoints. So it would've been nice if Jeisha had sent you an OOC message or tell saying "What's the big idea?".

But you're the experienced player and she's the inexperienced one. So take the initiative. Kill her, then immediately send an OOC message explaining what happened, or at the very least just open the door for an OOC discussion. Most of the time you'll get an "It's cool, thanks". Sometimes, as probably would have happened here, Lusternia keeps a new player who would have left. (And new players = credits buyers = organization leaders = all that jazz.)

I don't think that's pussyfooting. I think that's how you play a game with someone else.
(Anyone reading this play Ultimate in real life? Be the SotG.)

Agree mostly with Ialie. Death has little RP meaning anymore.

Mag has the notorious reputation of being the hard-ass city that everyone has mentioned and elaborated on many times in this thread already. However, not everyone enjoys playing the role of a someone who is below dirt. While some others may find it fun and rewarding, I'd think that they're in the 'minority-ish' group. Though I'm not saying that this kind of behavior should stop necessarily, it's been built into how Mag works... but there will be consequences in terms of turning players away, no matter how it is justified, and Jeisha's case is an unfortunate example of that. Ah the double-edged sword.

I'm sorry; I can't lay this at anyone's feet other than the player in question.

Could Aiakon have sent her a little OOC message or something to make sure everything was all right? Sure. But the problem wasn't that he failed to do this.

Could Magnagora revise their RP so that more people will want to play there and have more pleasant experiences where everyone is nice and polite to each other? Sure. But Magnagora's RP wasn't the problem here, either.

The problem is that you have a player who is either a drama queen or has the world's thinnest skin. If she hadn't quit over this, it wouldn't be long before she quit over something else. She was part of at least one (and I heard two) different orgs before quitting them (and we don't know why, but she implies she had a similar experience in those other guilds) and -choosing- to play Magnagora. An unpleasant thing happened to her IC, and she shows up on the forums where she basically blames everyone but herself and quits in a firestorm of accusations and heavy-handed insults. She was like the entire history of a Bard guild compressed into 10 game hours.

And for what? Because a Magnagoran superior didn't take kindly to being told they had to be nicer by a peon, and other Magnagorans supported this position.

I'm sorry. I don't think this person was salvageable no matter what OOC measures Aiakon may have taken. She might have stayed another day, but sooner or later, someone would have RPed something consistent that she didn't like, and we would have seen this happen, anyway.

It isn't as though she was being continually griefed or harassed by anyone. This was a perfectly consistent IC thing to happen in the org in which she chose to play. There were a dozen other things she could have done (including RPed something) besides coming to the forums and making a grand announcement of how we will be deprived of her presence because Lusternia is full of thugs and bullies.

I want new players. I hope we get 'em by the dozens. I do not see this particular instance as a loss for Lusternia, and I certainly don't think Aiakon is to blame for it.

This actually reminds me (obliquely) of some complaints I've heard about Glomdoring recently, as well. It would be a shame to see the city/commune organizations become more and more diluted in their ideologies.

Thank you for this post, it basically took everything I wanted to say and said it much more eloquently.

Honestly, for someone who has played IRE for 4+ years and claims to be so knowledgable about it, I would expect you could realize that Aiakon's player != Aiakon's character, and that not everyone in Magnagora just sits around waiting for a Serf to screw up so they can kill them. In fact, this isn't a very common occurrence to be quite honest. More common than in other places, but it's not something everyone does.

Suggesting Aiakon should have messaged her OOCly and apologized or explained is utterly ridiculous, and I point back to Verithraxs's post. If there is any blame to be put here, it's that she wasn't taught about Magnagora and how it works. I know I personally tell all novices I teach that if they aren't respectful they can and WILL be punished, physically at times as well.

As an aside, how the hell is Aiakon supposed to know how much she has played? You would think that being out of novicehood she was somewhat familiar with how things work, and the fact she got there through idling and not playing is on her.

Reading some of the posts in this threads honestly made me laugh. Many of them essentially suggest that before ever interacting with ANYONE in a negative way (ie: scolding, punishing, etc.) we should first OOCly message them an explanation detailing why it's happened. What is the point of roleplaying then? Don't we all realize this is a fictional game? Please, someone enlighten me. I would be mad if he had killed a novice, but the fact remains that he didn't, and 24 (most likely 14 in this case) hours of playing time is a significant amount., more than enough for someone to learn about their surroundings.

Hmm. Why'd you question Aiakon's integrity without knowing anything about him then?