Isn't specific since the cauldron can be used for other skills, and also it can be placed well in advance so that the choke can be done instantly. I was speaking more of something like a delayed skill, with a visible start as well as finish, similar to Fury/Maelstrom/timed instantkills ect. But that would definitely limit it in a one-on-one, hmm.

I basically go with the squint method with that, If the room seems to have a cauldron, or any shadows in the room, I automatically assume it is choke. It may not be. But it is better to be safe then sorry....

Now when someone drops choke, you see them drop a cauldron, and the some other line. If I see a cauldron being dropped, either I make a pit, or I get out of the room. Normally the latter.

Hailstorm and Boulderblast give no such notice, and basically if you havent shielded and you are hit by a group of mages (3+) you end up toast. That and getting someone to drop a shield so that mages can hit them is one of the easiest things to do in the game.

On the Mage-only topic. I could venture a guess to say that group combat was believed to be 1 mage on each side, with lots of warriors and guardians, from the city point of view at least. However, since then, the game has evolved, and mages have increased in versatility outside of their demense so that they are as good, or better (group attack) then other classes in group situations. My guess might be wrong, but it's just a possibility.

If limited group attacks were added to other classes to give them all similar impact in group situations, then I would also see group combat reduced to warriors hitting their group attack, guardians hitting theirs, ect. We run into the same-is-boring problem, also nothing would be fixed, we would have just spread the problem around, and perhaps diluted it as well if they were all limited in their damage scaling.

I'm not saying that group attacks shouldn't be seriously looked at, perhaps even taking up slots in the next BIG envoy report, but those are just my thoughts.

Edit:The reduction in the size of demenses is another point, whereas before one mage was all a side needed, now they are required to have multiple demenses, just to cover the area.

I just had a thought actually that’s relevant; what if there were no such thing as full group attacks?

In Lusternia, where clashes of armies on a consistent basis are far more common than any other IRE game wouldn’t it be more interesting if more realism was realized in the conflicts. I speak specifically of combat at the group level, and on the skills that have the most effect in such situations. Because from my point of view, it just boggles the mind to think that a storm of hail raining down on an area will hit exactly who the mage wishes it to hit 100% of the time. When both Hailstorm and Boulderblast hit everyone, there were more tactics involved in their use, akin to real life engagements where a soldier can not just unload his machine gun indiscriminately in a wide circle and hope to hit only enemies. Now I’m not aware of any limitations on the code that would prevent damage attacks that hit everyone from fully being under declare’s control, but I would really like to see an attempt made. There are others skills that I think should hit everyone as well.

But also limited group attacks should be utilized more, like with ecto, and others skills that currently hit full groups. The reason for that would be to again add more dynamics to combat and allow luck to play more of a factor, as it plays in real life, which will hopefully make group combat as well as conflict itself more enjoyable.

A fight well fought is far more enjoyable than a quick win or defeat.

To Wesmin,

I don’t think more group attacks of any kind should be made, think there are far too many as is, and the introduction of bards just made it worst. I think a balance should be made between group attacks and singular target attacks. Meaning that there should be more costs or limitations involved in the use of skills that target groups.

Boulderblast and Hailstorm should hit everyone in the room as Daevos mentioned. This would balance and make more sense.

I also liked the idea of Choke being delayed and a message of it's coming.

That's how it was originally but was changed because it circumvented the declaration system. Though I suppose we could have it work only offprime, there would have to be some sort of reasoning that a skill would be negated from working on prime.

Oh psh... only whiners have PK ON... I have PK OFF because I like realism

Avechna causes the spell to fail because of its unwieldy nature cannot be controlled by the mage and is a danger to innocents.

So, it could work in village revolts and off-prime.

The sheer elemental force inherent in the abilities can't gather itself properly on the Prime, maybe? Like why you don't see Water Lords down at the seaside (unless I've been missing something). Could have cute little fizzle messages for them, too.

The Avechna suggestion also works. He done got fed up with all the rampant magically-induced bad weather that made his bookkeeping go spare.

I'd go for linking it to the elemental planes - it just won't work more than one plane away. Make the attacks stronger on Earth/Water as appropriate, normal on Ethereal, Cosmic, and the other Elemental, and fizzle on Prime.

Astral, although two planes away, is rich in power of its own... and a good place to add some appropriately insane variations on the attack messages. (Eyeball-blast? Wormstorm?)

Choke is delayed. You first have to drop cauldron, then release shadows, then you get to shadowdance choke.

I believe they say choke is instant because you can have shadows up in preparation and waiting. So someone walked into a room with hexes up and shadows active, gets hit by one, double whammied, choke. It all goes down hill for that person from that time on.

choke can be seen when it's dropped. What they like to do is drop the cauldron in the trees though or drop choke from the trees. You only see it when it's done in the same elevation.

Druids should get a group attack too if the hailstorm/boulderblast are gonna get kept. I mean if you were gonna compare City Vs Commune like the recentish Seren vs Celest then all the mages would have a huge advantage. I also like hailstorm/boulderblast hitting everyone.

Trample is also one of those group attack skills.

It should be visible in any elevation in which it has effect. Nothing else makes sense.