It really doesn't matter what the reason was (though I did sorta mention the hating moon dealie), it's not carved in stone, and it's not enforced, which is my point. It's the decisive indecisiveness that gets me. "YES we will be indecisive about this issue, put that indecisiveness into LAW! And make the penalty we won’t be enforcing death!”

Okay.. you're going to have to show me where this is. I just recall it being a more spoken rule than written down.

Okay. I admittedly skipped about two pages of this because it got repetitive, but I'd like to address this point.

Viravain was very admittedly a decently large part of getting Narsrim into Glomdoring, but she was not all of it. There was a group of people forming - that I helped form - that acted to let him in. Yes, Viravain's feelings on the point helped form that group. But it was player-driven as well.

There is considerably more depth to 'Viravain's' influence in Glomdoring if you actually know what's going on.

I'm glad that the actions of a Divine make sense to the followers of that Divine, at least. To outsiders, however, it just looks like the followers are puppets without much free will.

I'm tired and not making much sense. Post gone.

That is they way it is supposed to be.

My own worst experience with this was during the Stagar debacle, when he stole the 500 K I had out to buy Rhosyn's family clan for her. Purportedly, such thievery should have been blatantly against the laws of Magnagora, but also purportedly one of the gods... Fain, if I recall right... specifically ordered that the law not be applied to Stagar in this instance. Why? I never heard any theory, so all I have to go on is the assumption that he doesn't like me personally. Which it seems is reason enough for him to act that way, as my issue was summarily dismissed.

I don't care for most of your points, but I've gotta agree with the conclusion.

That's right. They're distrustful of us for some reason contradictory to the histories as we know them which we still can't figure out, but they're still "good guys" because they're descendants of the members of an untainted Commune who we were on good terms with.

In spite of that, defending them would be ridiculously impractical since not only are they a lowbie bashing ground, but Avechna actively gets in our way. Also they don't trust us and aren't doing us any favours, so we have no obligation to do anything for them except that mark of respect - not killing them for no good reason.

No idea what Wesmin's talking about.

Could you please explain why you are supposed to appear as a mindless puppet then? I must be missing a large part of what roleplaying really means if I don't understand this fundamental concept. Personally, I don't want to ever lose my sense of self to the willfulness of a Divine (or anyone).

(Please don't take this to mean that I feel the Divine are running organizations, though I do feel They take it a touch too far from time to time.)

Because you should really only join a Divine whose ideals you agree with. Thus, when they hand out commands, you go and do them, because you agree with what they've commanded.

I'm going to have to hunt for the "don't hunt them" post aren't I? The Serenwilde newsboards are a nightmare.

I'll do it tomorrow.

You may agree with their ideals, but you're not supposed to be clones of them. I might make a character that agrees with, say Charune's ideals, but that doesn't mean I have to share all the same opinions. Depending on my character's personality, I might do them even if I disagree, I might tell myself I agree, or I might refuse and argue with the god, which would probably get me 'd or worse, but that might not stop me.

Well obviously. They were asking why they APPEAR to be puppets. I was explaining why they can APPEAR to be.

Yes, the point is that followers of a god should APPEAR to be puppets. It gives strength to the order, and gives a unified front. It also enhances the appearance of the divine's powers.

I didn't say order member should be puppets, I said that from the outside, the enemies should think they are.

I think this is a very big case of wanting your pudding before you eat your meat.

You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat.

So kwitcherbitchin.



Translation: If the Gods took a step back and were less heavyhanded or involved. The same people would be here bitching about something else in regards to them. Most likely how they never do anything or affect/promote RP in the game world.

Yes you can. Beef n Yorkshires. I usually eat me Yorkshires first.

Wait, so is it Gods = Pudding or Gods = Meat? Mesa confused.

They're the plate.