Just as a point of reference, Adodak made a thread... 2 days or so ago... about that very thing. (See the "Banned Gods" thread).

Roleplay is playing a role, yes? That role doesn't necessarily have to have a meaningful effect on the world. You seem to be suggesting that you can't RP until you've advanced enough.. but that's utterly not the case. You can immerse yourself in your role from the moment you arrive in the game - you just have to know what that role is. I love being a novice. Life is so stress free. In any case, my point is a simple one: you associate RP with game achievement.. and while you might choose to, it's not a hard and fast rule that should or even can be applied universally. In the context of this paragraph, I'm sure you can understand that I find your final sentence nonsensical. But we're off topic, in any event.

If I read you wrong, I apologize.

This is what you led with:



Emphasis mine.

From this, I got the impression that your first priority was how to kill things and level, not RP. Mostly, I got this idea because this is precisely what you said.

You seem to be wanting to flesh that out in a more holistic way now, and that's fine. I don't even have a problem with a novice whose primary concern, initially is levelling.

My entire point has nothing to do with you, your RP abilities, your desire to RP, Xavius' talent with flames, etc. You may win an Oscar for your RP, and I hope you do. All I was ever trying to say was that novices care about different things, and it's a mistake to suggest that guilds should slant heavily toward one set of priorities just because it happened to be your own set of priorities.

I don't even have a dog in this fight. I honestly could not care less if we implement a City/Commune novice channel or not. I just wanted to voice my opinion that a novice's introductory experiences should not necessarily be RP free and solely oriented around vials and herbs and such.

I'll put it simply.

Tully.

I'm just suggesting that the RP of all the guilds and communes/cities needs to be carefully and slowly fed into novices, to be accessable should they have interest, but not bombard them with loads and loads of it from the beginning. Some people seem to like to do the latter which I find problematic.


And yes, I do play a role when I play my character, a subserviant, quiet, tad bumbling and clumsy Page/Squire that only goal is to train and improve himself so that he may be worthy to serve the Light and earn the title of a Knight of the Paladins. It just so happens that my characters in game goals directly correlate to needing to do hours of mindnumbing tasks repetitively to accomplish them.


I don't get the Tully reference at all by the way. He may be a low level but he has a ridiculous level of might compared to any character I've had.

Hence: One must have worthwhile skills to provide others within the game to coincide with their RP to be of worth. And frankly, if you're not worth something to people in the game, you don't matter much to them usually.

This is a very narrow, and not all that correct, view. :/ You don't really need skills to have an impact on the game.

Just chill guys...

Serge/Critter: As a novice, I liked learning how to cure, etc. on my own by reading the help files. If I was really stumped, I'd ask a question. The first guild I joined were the Nihilsts, and there were a lot of RP intensive people there, which got me really immeresed and kept me interested, even if I kept to myself. Everyone's first time / novice experience is differnent and not everyone cares about levelling. I just spent my first hours reading the room descriptions of places, afterall.

Lusternia is my first (and only) MUD, so my memory is still fresh from a year or so ago from when I joined. For everyone, the help is appreciated is not necessarily the way you may or may have not wanted it.

As for Tully, he's not a fighter - I think he ratted his way to where he is now, and his might comes mostly from credit bought skills. But he's one of Lusty's favorite characters, without having participated in raid or such.

And to stay more on topic... NO CNT, PLEASE.

You do know that might is basically just a rating of how many credits you've put into your skills, right?

And Tully is trans arts, hence a large part of the high might, but that doesn't mean he can fight. Imagine, if you will, a dwarf going around, wielding a painting of a painting of a painting of you know the drill, with heaps of people looking up at him and asking him to help them raid whatever opposing plane is currently in fashion. It won't work.

Disclaimer: I mean no offense to Tully with these examples, it's just a very useful example.

This problem spoken of not retaining novices spans out into a more broad amount of reasons, which I believe are at the center for why not only Novices are leaving but yet also the senior players disappearing too if you haven't noticed. The atmosphere IS where the problem lies within, though not just within RP but also the mechanics of this game also being a source. To try and say if a commune or city is at war won't have an affect on available people to teach, or what they are taught is like saying that breathing in smog won't have any harmful effect on my body or lungs.

When theres a constant conflict going on between people it draws resources away to teach people and for those who are around they have to explain a lot more than just a run of the mill explanation of how to do things. It puts a big stress on everyone making them not want to do it at all or just go away which is why if you haven't noticed people a reluctant to do so and your senior players aside from the eternal faithful people who have friends not wanting to leave and ones who enjoy to make all the conflict are still around.

People seem to want more emphasis on being able to fight each other than do constructive things which is a problem setup from the mechanics of the game. Think I am delusional or wrong? You should check to see how often people post here about some type of game mechanic problem with class/commune/ect. imbalances vs. things like write songs, poems, draw and ask yourself what really is the problem here and how can it be fixed rather than turn a blind eye or say its all fine.

There are plenty of things to do in Lusternia but combat is the most practical thing with the others being only second hand to becoming a god and crushing people who stand in your way. Anything else is a whisper in the wind drowned out by the sound of loud war drums playing to divide one another which is nothing wrong about that but its really deprived after a while and tears people apart.

Whats the solution? I don't really know, people will always do what they want. Theres nothing wrong with it, but maybe you could set something up so that people who don't want to deal with 24/7 constant conflicted raiding and internal wars can do something other than crawl into some quiet spot away from it all or just stop playing since an extreme emphasis was put into it. Perhaps then you won't have so many novices leave since the kindly senior players who like to help doing constructive things aren't forced out along with the novices they share that kindness with also.

P.S - I am not saying theres anything wrong with conflict, but it shouldn't be forced upon people because either a game mechanic made it that way or so and so says you have to because they think it right and people who don't agree are alienated. Also, I know there are people who do other things than just stir up trouble and fight and do other things too but they aren't a problem.

I say we get rid of conflict and get rid of RP. Those are obviously causing the problem of people leaving.

Clearly you're not understanding in the least what people are saying.


The problem if you ask me. Is the players.

Yes, if we get rid of conflict, RP, and the players, Lusternia will be a much better place.

I wonder if the the wonderfully mature nature of the game leaves us with less people with 8 hours a day to spend mudding and being around for the novices.

I know that just about every problem I see with my guild could be solved in a week if I were able to mud 8 hours a day instead of 3. All the poeple I know who do have 8 hours a day to mud, are already doing it and are busy in other guilds

You are wrooooooooong. I was a guild secretary before half the people in this thread played, and I know very well that you're horrifyingly wroooooong. Not just the quoted phrase, everything you've said. Sorry. Try again some other time.

You have no idea. Longevity doesn't make someone not a moron.


Failing to comprehend what I'm saying doesn't make me wrong. But perhaps I lack the ability to fully describe what I was trying to say.


In any case, the mechanics of the game are limiting to RP in many ways, denial of that is naive. That is not to say RP cannot exist regardless of that, nor does it mean I don't actively play a role within my character. But you can't simply decide you're going to be a strong, well-trained Knight of the Light that smites the foes of Terentia unless you take both active efforts in RP'ing to that point and also working through the mechanics of the game to achieve suitable levels to accomplish those feats for RP purposes.


What I am saying, is that without the basic knowledge of how to progress through the mechanics of the game, my character could never grow to be what I want it to be in the terms of RP. There's nothing wrong about that, it's a factual part of any game. But then, yourself, like many are more concerned about acting holier then thou, talking down to new players and telling people they're wrong then anything else.

I'd suggest you edit the personal attack.

Sorry, bub, but your personal perspectives fail to be statistically significant.

Don't bother replying to Verithrax, he doesn't even play the game anymore.

I didn't personally attack anyone.


Either way, people apparently don't care, they're too concerned with doing things their way, wether right or wrong and adverse to any change to effectively make a difference. Basically everyone that's posted on this subject seems concerned with one thing, themself and how right they think they are and it's a little sickening. Lusternia will eventually grow and more people that actually concern themselves with new players will eventually stay and rectify this problem, or it will collapse. I'm thinking the former is more likely given IRE's history of success as far as MUD's go. All I really tried to do was to give a different perspective, as someone from the outside and someone that is new and all anyones tried to do is pick it apart and throw it back at me in thinly veiled attacks at my own character and some less veiled.


You want to retain more novices, start asking them what they want from the game and what you can do to keep them coming back. Not that I think many players seem to care, because they've all dealt with many novices and are so experienced as secretaries and undersecretaries and training novices. Clearly they know better, hence how we have this problem to begin with. Right?

Some day I'm going to log back on and start roleplaying dementia, just to get back on people for those attempts to dismiss me for not playing.