1)Yes, death is a terrible thing, but etneral life is even worse. G-d smites people every day, there is no mood swing about it. What are you smoking? You think the religious concept is that G-d only exists when you invoke the name, and attribute the act to G-d? The whole point is that every single moment of every single day, good and bad, is a result of G-d's will. And this is something that Media personalities LOVE to use to get christains to say stupid things on the air, and then take the comments out of context, and spreading lies and fear about what Christains think. And apparently, you love to do it too with your asanine rape question.


3) Please show me ONE instance where this happened? I can show you atleast 4 instances where the scenario I presented, and the scenario usually taught and discussed did happen. You are creating fake situations which have no meaning for the sake of doing what exactly?

I'm afraid I place more value on souls than the body, thank you. If she doesn't die, she can recover.

She dies a horrible, horrible death. But she will find peace. Say she's older and has a not so clean past. I have provided her with as many chances to be saved as I could. It is her choice. I will still refuse to lie as to my belief.

Both, God hates liars and murderers.



If you ignore other people's cries for help, even your own family, then that's the sin of ignorance. What matters is this:

When you help someone, you need to give out your best, like what God does, he gives his best when he helps.

When you fail to save her, it is not your fault, for it is the men's fault that raped your daughter. (Unless in another point of view, God did allow your daughter to be raped because you sinned against him and that is his punishment to you, lose someone dear to you.)



Mark 9:36

He took a little child and had him stand among them. Taking him in his arms, he said to them, "Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcomes me but the one who has send me."

So, for your example of Christians who let horrible things happen to their children, they have done the sin of ignorance.

EDIT: Type errors

We must have a different view of smiting. My idea of smiting is when someone is killed for being outside God's narrow box. That doesn't happen so much any more. God doesn't go around and flood the earth or rain fire down on places much any more, and if he does it, its nondiscrimatory, which is a completely different story and a completely different kind of evil if its part of a plan. On the other hand, its just an unfortunate event if God isn't controlling each action. But your argument is that its a willed occurance, which yes, makes it evil. If its not evil, then I expect Jews to celebrate Hitler's birthday as if it was Christmas, because hey, he was just a very large tool in God's plan. He should be praised for his part.

But there's the problem.. you can't have Divine Will and Free Will coexisting 100%. Not everything is God's will, or else Free will doesn't exist. So, either Hitler was a tool of God, or else he was outside God's Plan. Either way, God loses a few points on that one.

And I'll show you ONE instance of my hypothetical situation if you can show me ONE instance where there is proof of the bible being sent by God and not some shmuck who wanted to control a group of people. Kay?

Actually, it doesn't tell you anything except how a person would respond to a hypothetical question that they know has no real consequence save to further their own argument.

I spent 4 years of my high school life being tested on hypothetical questions that were labeled Moral Dilemmas. It was some sort of experiment by this Harvard guy to see if could have a school create more moral people. 10 years later, I can safely say that how a person answered those questions did not correlate at all to how they view morality in the real world. In fact, they stopped doing the moral Dilemma tests at the school, save for special instances such as trying to sell the school.

Urr...

Hmm, given free will, you can choose to live life as you see fit or live on God's plan, divine will. So it is possible to coexist with ours and his will 100%. And as for Hitler, don't know but one thing for sure is that based on Jesus' warning about the coming of the end, "war and suffering must happen but the end is still to come." so we won't really now about people who made history such as Hitler on the Jews.

God loves all people, but those who sin must be punished. He allows us the choice of going to Him or not. Depending on what you believe, sins may have a ranking or they may all be the same "rank."

A Sin of Ignorance? If there is someone being murdered in front of me because I refused to lie, I think I would know about it.

Then we disagree. But the fact is, how someone answers that question says a lot about who they are. You can argue that it doesn't correlate, but it does. Someone willing to sacrifice their child is someone, I feel, means something. And I don't think you'll ever change my mind on that.

Guard?

But no. If someone dies or something bad happens, its always attributed to part of God's Plan, or that its His Will. Always. And if that's the case, then there is no Free Will.

Screw hitler, the question you pose is directly in the Bible. G-d tells Abraham that his children will be slaves in Egypt for 400 years. 2,000 years ago somebody asked the question. Why is pharoah punished for enslaving the Israelites, since it was all part of the Divine plan?

The answer given is very simple and straight forward. Just because it is going to happen, doesn't mean you have to be the one to make it happen.

Its an old line, "Everything is determined, save your awe of G-d." Then you get 10- 20 different theories of what it means to have free will in the first place. Some people say that choosing your ice cream flavor is an example of free will, and some say it isn't

How is everything being G-d's will any different than the idea in physics that if you had a program large enough, and knew the exact location of every molecule during the bing bang, you could predict anything?

Lastly, why should someone be praised for being a tool? Tools don't get praised, the craftsman who uses the tool gets praised.

Thinking in a vacuum gets you nowhere, unless you have a standardized test you have to pass.

Every action we do is based on free will, every consequence is based on God's plan/will whether it be big or small.

Its very simple, Jigan says he would never lie. Go find a post that shows him saying something that is not 100% true. It shouldn't be that hard to do. There isn't any correlation.

I am sure you know the line about not being able to judge which sins are big and which ones are small, right?

These don't mesh, either you accept that the bible is the 'direct word of god' or you believe it's something you can interpret to whatever you want it to be. In my mind both views are equally dangerous.

This reminds me of my Nation-State, where I outlawed religion because they kept demanding that things be done. (Nationstates is written by a satirical aussie writer) Ah, I don't want to get to deep into this issue. I got burnt out debating against Amaru back in the day.

Religion is something best left alone imo, as long as the fanatics aren’t forcing their views on others it’s ok. The problem is they generally feel they must, and wrap that little bit of inhumane thinking in ‘love thy neighbor!’ Leave me alone kthx.

Seriously, why does it hurt YOU if I’M happy? My happiness doesn’t preclude yours, but your happiness precludes mine. Oh no, I can’t just not be happy for some, I need to be burning in hell for the universe to be balanced again.

To clear up some things, I think people should be concerned about what’s going on around the globe, but not because some made-up religious symbol TOLD them to. Obedience breeds a weak mind.

That is a mighty big cop-out. Sooner or later, one Pharoah would have had to enslave them. So either way, Free Will takes a hike, even if its in the bigger picture of things. It was impossible for all the Pharoahs to be good people, for it would contradict God's Plan, which is apparently impossible, according to you. If the end is pre-determined, no many how many paths are offered to reach it, it still means that, as a people, we have no free will, because sooner or later someone is destined to bend to God's Will.


I'd say you could predict anything that wasn't impacted by an organism capable of thought. If you knew the exact location of every molecule during the big bang, then yes, you could predict the movement of all planets and all asteroids and the death of all suns and everything. But does that mean that Asteroid A is going to hit the earth? No. It means its going to be aimed at the earth. But thinking organisms have the capability to divert that asteroid, which is something impossible to predict.

The Christians seem to love them some Saint action. And the Jews have a couple people they at least admire for being tools of God. So fine, don't praise Hitler, just admire him.


Technically, the idea that "if you die but believe in Jesus and God you go to heaven" is a sort of vacuum all by itself. It rids you of all outside factors. "Well, if my daughter dies, she's an innocent and will be in heaven! So let the men do with her what they will." That's a vacuum right there, because you're looking at the situation as if it won't matter on the grand scale of things.

Just because you do good things in here and believe doesn't mean that you'd have a good chance in getting into heaven. You still have to 'carry the cross and follow Jesus', spread the good news about salvation and the kingdom of heaven.



Nada, she'd mostly end up in purgatory for a long long time unless her parents or those that care for her prayed for her to lessen the time needed to get to heaven (as what I was told about that situation). She's innocent yes but did she follow a Christian life? No, so I don't know if she'll go to Heaven or Hell. I'm no judge so I can't explain it.

I never did really like that purgatory thing, whenever someone talks about it, they can't tell me where it's mentioned. I've never been able to find a place in the Bible which talks about it either. Someone point out a reference for me or three?

Sidenote, I looked in a mirror a few moments ago and two parts of my hair formed horns. Not sticking straight out, but the hair above my forehead sticking out in front of me above each eye. I think Someone is having a bit of fun with me. Nor can I flatten them out, they continue to exist.

And for my last reply for this topic today is:

I'm glad I get a chance to defend my religion, been a while I had this kind of debate since Highschool. Night guys.