I've recently come over from Achaea to see how the other IRE MUD's compare, and quite frankly, for a change. I've created 3 characters in the past that have died off due to the pull of Achaea and letting them slip into inactivity.

I've recently come back and created an Ebongaurd. So far, in 10hrs online time I've only seen one person online the same time as me. Admittedly, she was very helpful and sorted me out with a few weapons, but it was only my IRE experience that allowed me to muddle through the GHELP files and get myself to a point where I could bash.

I don't wish to get into a comparison with Achaea, that isn't my point in this thread, but I am wondering whether guild (in)activity is generally a problem within Lusternia? Even though I'm willing to give it a good crack, being the only person in the guild is not very appealing.

Edit - I forgot to mention, those 10hrs were split over 4 days, and were between 8-11pm GMT.

Some guilds have this problem, especially at non peak times. Some.. even at peak only have 1 or 2.

It depends on the guild entirely. And it can change at any time, some days the regulars wont be able to come around.

Yes, right now it is a problem in Glomdoring. Please grab anyone you see in the commune if you need help. Most of us are more than willing to help where we can.

I know that Glomdoring guilds usually have very little people during the 2-8pm GMT +8 period. Heck, even the entire Basin can be very empty at those times, but like Dylara said, it's not really that fixed.

Glomdoring is tiny. Sometimes I'm the only Glom on Prime.

I'm not sure if it's only Glomdoring. If I compare Serenwilde from the time that I joined (roughly 4 rl months ago?) to now, I notice that during peak and off peak time the people online are fewer. The Moondancers get about a third of the novices per rl day than we used to back then (Used to get like 10-15 per rl day, now it's on average 2-5+). Maybe it's just because other guilds are more interesting now, or because most people have to work / go to school or college again..?

You're so spoiled if you think that's low.

This is exactly the type of situation of why we are considering consolidating novices into one city/commune wide program. Really, I understand why guilds are concerned that their sovereignty and importance would diminish or that RP would suffer (neither of which I think will happen), but there is an issue with how to better handle our novices that simply needs to be addressed. The answer isn't having GNT heard across planes--the problem arises exactly because of what this poster has expereinced: low activity in certain guilds. This is a real issue.

Ebonguard does indeed have a poor population. I always try to help novices when I can, but I'm only around so much.

I wonder how many people are off on other planes though. I once thought I was the only person, then I went to my manse and I saw 5 ebonguard in there.

Actually, I was trying to point out that over roughly 4 rl months two thirds seemed to have poofed.. that's what bothers me.

And, in reply to Estarra: GNT across planes might not entirely solve the problem but it would sure help a lot whenever people are around (same for newbie working without planar restrictions btw). Right now, if no one is around no one can help, but even when people are around the might not be able to help if off plane because they can't hear the novice.

The answer also is not a combined GNT-- guilds that have low activity are also in organizations with low activity. For example, Glomdoring's prime-time numbers last evening were seven people on Prime. Myself and Kundu were the "older" members of Glomdoring on Prime (Lisarel had logged off to attend classes). There were two Ebonguard novices on, and two young Blacktalon.

At the exact moment I logged on, there were 3 Ebonguard novices who all needed to be taught. Lisarel was finishing up with one. We got the other two helped after that. However, if Lisarel had not been on Prime-- she would not have known they were in need of help, not being able to hear them. One person not being on Prime is a very likely scenario-- there are the Aetherways, Ethereal, Astral, Elemental Planes (and sometimes even a brief foray to the Cosmic, though Communefolk tend not to stick there long). Expecting Kundu to take over and teach three new Ebonguard in that case would be... mmm... rather difficult. Nothing against Kundu at all, but teaching three novices at once is a rather difficult task for someone who knows what the guild's teaching drill is. Doing it while trying to read various scrolls at the same time would be quite nasty.

It's very unfortunate that Glomdoring's numbers have plummeted so drastically, but... I have to ask, do you really think that combining GNT into one channel will actually fix this? It's now seeming a lot more like a band-aid solution that won't really have a whole lot of impact, in Glomdoring's case at least.

Yes, I really do think it will help. I think it will also have the benefit of building community within Glomdoring (or any city or commune). In other words, novices being combined together, learning to work together, working with other members outside of their guild is a good thing. Again, I understand why some may want a "guild first" introduction to new players but ultimately I think that works against bringing them into a community. To me, a band-aid solution is having GNT heard across planes. THAT, I don't think will have a whole lot of impact.

But I'm also willing to hear other solutions rather than commiserating that we have low numbers but we shouldn't do more than put band-aids on the situation.

Technically there is still the newbie channel. Why aren't newbies being told to use that channel and use it to interact with other newbies that way? I understand that in Achaea the newbie channel was not to be used as a chatting line, but that is because there were usually 10-15 newbies on at once and if one started chatting, they all began to chat, and then Romeo/Juliet would lose some of the questions. I don't see that as a would-be problem in Lusternia, though.

I understand there needing to be a sense of culture and community, but when you put new players together, they will bond, and make their own RP and have their own fun. Putting in advanced players is always good for guidance, but I don't see much of advanced players really bonding with newbies (not in a discriminatory way, just a, "You have a lot of reading and a lot of work, so I'm just going to leave you alone and let you get to it."). My main curiosity is what's going on with the guides, though.

I don't believe anybody has said we shouldn't do things that are more than band-aid solutions, Estarra. We have just been disagreeing on what constitutes that type of solution. I'll agree that GNT/Newbie heard on all planes is also relatively minor, and I've never said it was the be-all and end-all solution, simply that it does need to happen (and very easily could be part of a much larger and broader solution). Similarly, combining channels is very small-- ie, a band-aid, in my opinion.

Other, more long-term solutions have been discussed. They've been turned down due to various issues-- requiring administration oversight, lack of ability to monitor/reward, etc. etc. You can find some of them in the locked GNT thread. However, I've got no other ideas at this point beyond what has already been raised / rejected. All I can say is that I believe something more effective than a small patch needs to be applied.

You've got a very small number of people in the game. Small numbers breeds small growth-- don't have the numbers to keep people active, or to catch their interest. Newbie life is hard, it's extremely difficult for a newbie to get any kind of decent abilities (which might help hook them on the game) without breaking out their wallet-- it's been suggested in other threads that number of bound credits be doubled/tripled (tripling would allow a player new to Lusternia to get one trans skill by 80 with a smattering of other stuff-- or a good selection of various guild-skills by 50). I think that would help more than it hurts, financially. Even that, though, is just a minor thing. It would need to be in addition to other stuff.

There is no single solution, imo.

That wouldn't have a great deal of impact, but it's how it should have been implemented in the first place. Personally, I think consolidating GNT will make it very difficult for guilds to cultivate their own roleplay and culture at the novice level; I like the idea of guilds in a city having different goals and motivations, and this change would make it even easier than it already is for each guild to be a cookie-cutter copy of the next, but with different skills. That's not interesting or fun.

Consolidating GNT would also be little more than a patch that wouldn't solve the underlying problem: There are not enough players. We need one less org, or we need the game to be more fun so more people stay and populate those empty orgs. That's the real problem, and making it even harder for guilds to get their novice training together won't help.

Maybe for smaller orgs you eliminate guilds altogether and have multiple classes all part of the big unit. Because it sounds like the larger organization is too small for a guild it should be subsumed until it gets big enough.

How successful were houses in Achaea. That might be the way to go. It would give players more control over politics in some sense and make things a bit more dynamic.

Maybe moving away from a fixed guild system would be the overall goal. After all, we want new archetypes and skills, I can't see that desire going away, nor do I think things should remain static--everybody likes new options and stuff like that.

Because honestly, the only other alternative is for the smaller communities to actually die. If things don't get better I can see "okay, event to destroy Glomdoring and Serenwilde (to be fair) and bring back Ackleberry for the refugees" or something like that.

Just have to throw out an idea.

Why is it fair that Serenwilde be destroyed because Glomdoring hadn't attracted the population?

Just curious, since Serenwilde is doing perfectly fine in population. I don't see the 'fairness' in it. And don't call me biased, why do you destroy something because someone else wasn't able to get the amount in comparison to that?

Whoa, calm down.

I was just saying IF an extreme measure was taken to get rid of one org, they might want to merge Serenwilde and Glomdoring into the third commune, if only to "balance" things out, since you might not let ex-glommies in, for instance, and they might want to "shake up" the org structure.

But that wasn't my point.

I like that part of it. I like what you're wanting to accomplish.

I'm wondering, though, if the collective GNT will be able to accomplish this. For example, if a novice Ebonguard appears, and the people around are not Ebonguard, we can teach him universal kinds of things, but I have no idea what an Ebonguard should learn in their -guild- skills for minimal survivability, how they use their attacks, how to find a good weapon, etc. I wonder if a new player would be more frustrated by not having any guild superiors to help them the first time around or having a few people who are, in theory, supposed to be able to help them, but actually can't.

I'm just trying to imagine what it would be like for an Ebonguard novice to go through an orientation session with me, and I'm guessing there would be a lot of, "Uh... I don't know... you'll have to ask an Ebonguard about that," even when it comes to the basic, "How do I fight things?" I certainly wouldn't be able to demonstrate their skills or tell them how to best use them. I wonder if they will perceive their time is being wasted, and what impact that will have on both their desire to return and their perception of the community.

It's a tough nut to crack. I'm also trying to think of solutions along with you, because you're right: there is a problem, and a big part of solving the problem (I believe) is for novices to feel right off the bat like they're a part of something larger than themselves. I just wonder if the communal GNT/novice training obligation might actually hurt, but in a different way. If I were a novice, and I spent half an hour with someone fumbling around and, at the end of the day, I still didn't know what I wanted to know and/or had received a lot of erroneous information, I would find that experience very frustrating.