Anyone have figures on these or an opinion on how useful they are?

Not worth the cost.

I like the bleeding runes. Least expensive way to turn a weapon into an artifact, and the extra damage helps in some situations. I imagine that the increased bleeding of a blade is quite nasty, but having a blunt weapon that deals extra damage is good, too.

Incorrect. They are 200cr, L1 wounding or stat runes are 150cr. The benefit of +5 stats and +5% wounding is greater than the very trivial bonus to bleeding. Also note that the bleeding does not work on every attack.

I think with 2 bleeding runes (400cr) it made Geb get like an extra 150-200 bleeding on an amputate. Not positive, and not sure if you would consider it worth it, but for a PB, they need all the extra damage/bleeding they can get, since of course people cannot die to wounds alone.

That's a solid point. On a BM, however, it most certainly is not worth it. It doesn't work on a BM's best bleeding skills.

You're correct that it's not the cheapest way to turn a weapon into an artifact. I forgot about the L1 wounding and stat runes because I haven't considered L1 or L2 runes myself, since only one of each type works at a time. For me, it was a cheaper way to get the weapons to stay while I saved up for the L3 runes of other types.

Lvl 3's wounding at least are not worth it, IMO for a 2 handed weapon user at least. After they changed it to 7.5% per 900 cr rune to give 2 handed weapon users a total of 15% for 2 900cr runes ( and actually they get I think a total of 16% more wound, I think it is 8% per rune, if Xenthos gave me the math right). Well that equals 1800cr for 16% more wounding (which of course cannot kill people). Now if you bought 2 lvl 2 runes at 400cr each, you spend 800cr total for 10% more total wounding (5% per when attached to a 2 handed weapon). I just can't see spending 1000 more credits for 6% more wounding.

Now on the stat modifiers yea, I can understand that because it increases speed (not as much anymore), damage and precision (more than before since they changed it)... so 1800 credits for +30 damage +44precision(i think) and +16 speed is a much better buy than something that cannot even kill people.

Until wounding can actually kill people (not just make people apply health instead of sipping, I mean actually cause real blood loss from so much deep wounds), I wouldn't consider invest in a lvl 3 wounding rune.


But I still want 2 lvl 3 stat runes, they are great. Add that to drawdown and nightkiss, you got yerself a purty weapon.

I'm not sure how you can say that +15 speed isn't worth it.

I'm really out of the loop, but I think someone told me that amputating a limb caused 2k bleeding or something, is that true? Seems like wounds could kill in such a case. Plus if someone applies health and then dies to damage that kind of counts as the wounds killing them doesn't it?

The runes only give +3/+5/+8 speed each now for the +5/10/15 runes for 2 handers. The change was made by envoys to address a possible imbalance to 2 handers from artifact runes.



Amputating a limb does around 300 bleeding which rapidly escalates to around 750 per limb or so from previous tests with Daevos. It takes two limbs amputated to acquire above 1000 bleeding.

Warrior combat is nice in that it does damage, woundings, afflictions based on the woundings and afflictions from applied poisons. Efforts have been made to reduce the randomness of warrior combat with maneuvers. However they are still hampered greatly to the fact that :
1) They can miss and will miss.
2) Parries block attacks
3) Stancing dodges attacks.
4) Afflictions based on wounding is random.
5) Poisons afflicts randomly
6) Even if poison afflicts, there a chance for resilience to resist it.
7) Factor in trueheal which cures all deepwounds, bard's innate dodging which is as good as stancing and stacks too.

The only factor that affects all other combatants that are not warriors is 7.
Also redcaps can do more bleeding than a warrior in a short time.

Warriors usually gets in kills by
1) Target's inability to run - usually on people who over estimated their abilities to stay alive / don't know the area well enough / or don't know to run at all.
2) Low hp targets who gets flattened in 1/2 hits even with sipping/sparkles/scrolls
3) Failure to take into account woundings and getting beheaded or similar.
4) Getting slitlocked without cleanse/green/gedulah or similar.
5) In a group and ganking.

There might be other ways, but warrior combat can be defined by this quote I heard.. "Why should I have to work for my kills when it can be handed to me? *joins other classes*"

I didn't mean I thought +15 speed is totally not worth it even though now it is +16 speed for 1800cr instead of +30 speed total

I meant that 15% wounding increase is not worth the extra 1000cr vs 10% wounding increase which is only 800cr for a 2 handed weapon



Amputating a limb causes no where near 2k in bleeding, wounds have to be critical which is 4000 wound at least (if I remember right, it is so hard for an amputate to hit off I don't remember if it is heavy or crit but most likely crit)

Now when you get to critical wounds, you have a chance (roll of the die) to hit with amputate, if you have a manuever for it, you still have the same chance to hit with amputate, the only difference is if you miss the chance to amputate you get no other affliction, you decide on amputate or nothing.

You can put someone to 50k wounds on every limb of their body and that does not mean they will stop sipping and start applying, most systems will prioritize it. But they can still just walk out of the room with all those wounds, the aren't in any shape like being mangled, their limbs still work fine and they can still cast spells/use weapons/etc. The only thing that would cause them to die or have to cure a body part really is if you get an affliction from the high wounds, such as amputate, sever tendon, server nerve, etc. So while it is "possible" to kill someone by wearing down their system to stop sipping and start applying, no one rarely ever dies from wounds alone. Unless you get that one in 500,000 chance of a behead and that is if it hits the head with a hack down. Now of course you can try for slitthroats and windpipes, which if the player is actually dumb enough to run out of power and still be sitting there, of course they deserve to die.

But wounds will not kill people, and amputate if I remember right does maybe 400 bleeding to the chopped off leg, which is a great increase to like the 50 bleeding it used to do. Hell not until too long ago people could walk out of the room with no problem missing a leg. Now at least they have to apply regen to it one time to walk out. But nah, wounding does not kill people much, damage will, or of course 3 pinlegging BM's will, they will bleed you out and keep you prone the whole time, but 1 vs 1 wounds will not kill many people (most will run if they get to the point where a wound will kill them), which is an unfortunate by product of here. Lusternia combat is by far the most in depth, fun concept of combat in all of IRE. It just needs some more warrior tweaks. Warriors 1 vs 1 were supposed to dominate here against non warriors, but while that seems to be the case in low end levels, at the high end, Mages by far are the tankiest, most vicious damage killers in the basin, (especially when they get karma/god/shrine buffs). While they should be feared, they should never stand a chance against a warrior 1 vs 1, especially when not using a demesne. I mean they even have this Rune of Absorption here that does nothing to non physical attacks (aka Non Warrior) but totally hinders warrior damage (yes wounding goes through, but that leads us full circle that wounding isn't anything to worry about at higher levels and decent systems)

Maybe if warriors had a much higher percentage of instakills, or something if wounds were over 10k on certain bodyparts, kind of like how easy it is for a cosmic to mana kill, all they need is to drop yer mana to 1/2 and yer dead. Warriors still rely too much on luck based rolls.

But like Roark has said, it is very delicate to fine tune warriors, if he does something it could make things swing way too far in favour of warriors and then they are insta OP. So, I hope he is still fine tuning them delicately like he has said he had to do. So we will have to wait and hope, that warrior combat becomes what it is meant to be here, making the warrior archetype an archetype that people will see as a viable choice over classes that can PK with ease, and never miss when bashing.

I've noticed that if I miss with a two handed axe I lose less balance time than if I connect, which is nice. But I can't comment on these huge posts otherwise besides to say thanks for the input

And yeah, I threw a hissy fit the last time I stopped playing Lusternia because I was chopping off people's legs and they were hopping away from me montey python style. Unless they made it harder to do now I was having no problem legging people, but then again that was probably due at least in part to that they had no reason to try and defend their legs.

EDIT: Shield of absorption is the best artifact by far in Imperian and was last time I was playing achaea. I'm kind of disappointed they put it in here when the only physical damage class is considered to be the one with the most issues.

Which is so sad, and hopefully is being fixed, making warriors more viable and people will want to play warriors. I would never want my kills handed to me, but to work so hard for them especially when your opponent can kill you so easily is not fun. I just wish they could slowly work warriors up to be on par with the other classes.



Yeah, that is one good thing, it is the same for 2 handers and 1 handers, if you miss the bal recovery time is half of if you hit. But you still can miss. And when you sit and watch say Athana bash with you, she will never miss, and to top it off 1 of her WSC hits will do way more damage than 1 of yours (due to the fact her damage is based of INT and yours is based off the damage on yer weapon, and to top it off she can get INT buffs AND Damage buffs, while you can only get a Damage buff to increase your damage)


It is a great artie, it just needs to be reworked a little bit, to absorb 50% of ALL types of damage 15% of the time, instead of 100% of PHYSICAL ONLY damage 15% of the time. And the only people who are opposed to this are the ones who would not want to have their magical damage reduced in anyway. Hell I would be happy if it did 50% of ALL damage AND 30% of wounding damage 15% of the time, if people would just agree to a fair change in that rune. By far it is great for bashing, but only for physical attack only mobs right now. And of course it is the best Warrior nerfing artie especially for a mere 500cr. But it would with this change make it nice for all classes and even better for bashing, but like I said, those opposed to changing it like that are the same who do not do physical damage.

The artifact has a 15% chance of stopping cutting and blunt damage no matter the source. So the artifact also stops 50% of boulderblast and hailstorm, a percentage of the staff attacks, etc. The artifact does not just help reduce warrior damage, it helps against every class damage ability that possess the components of blunt and cutting.

Weapon damage plays a significant role in bashing damage? I was under the (mistaken, apparently) impression that bashing damage was mostly strength, with weapon speed being important due the chance for criticals, and weapon damage having a real but negligible effect. Or else why do people have max-speed hunting weapons, with little apparent attention to damage on them?

And the war blessing works for bashing?

Does precision do something for bashing as well?

15% to stop 100% of the damage from warriors (but not wounds, whoopdeedoo) or 15% to stop 50% (or less, usually less) in the case of non warriors. Also, last I checked cosmicfire was 50/50 magic/fire with no cutting or blunt, and bard songs were 100% magic, unless that got changed. Therefore the only classes that the rune has ANY effect on would be mage/druid and warrior. However, it is only about half as effective, if that, against mages as it is against warriors.

I feel that the inequality is reasonably clear.

Geb was just reminding that it effects more than warriors. However, generalizing about "every class" is pretty worthless. Even against mages, the damage reduction when the RoA procs is quite insignificant.

Indeed it is, and that was my point.

Bleh, I hate sleeplessness mixed with stress about classes.... it makes me incoherent. Thank god for people who can reiterate my words in a sensical manner.

War blessing helps with damage, and with bashing. And yes your bashing is based on the amount of damage your weapon has when you hit each time, So if you bashed with say a 180 broadsword, each hit would hit for more damge to the mob, but you cannot hit as often, thusly reducing criticals, which give an increased damage.

That is why people go with high speed, with as high as they can get damage weapons. That way they get more criticals in a shorter amount of attacks/time. This gives a better advantage of killing quicker. since say with a rapier max speed you would get like 2 hits every 2-3 seconds, and with a broadsword it may increase to 2 hits every 4-5 seconds (not sure about the amount of time difference, that is just a guesstimate). So it would be like close to double the chance to get crit hits, and the more crit hits the more damage. When you get 2 WSC hit with 180 damage broads, yes that will cause alot more damage to the mob than 2 WSC hits with a 45 damage rapier, but you may get 4 WSC hits with a rapier to every 2 with a broadsword. (Yes I am tired and am now confusing myself) But that is why people go with high speed for bashing.

Precision does nothing (noticeable, as far as I know) to bashing.




And Geb, yes you are right it stops 50% of Hail and BBlast, but that really isn't much compared to what it does to warriors, and of course pure magical attacks. I wish it was changed to not be such a warrior nerfing rune, and an much better asset to all classes for bashing, especially on astral where most mobs don't do physical only attacks. And I don't see why the few who don't agree (mainly people with magic based attacks) would care much. It is a small nerf, with yet a great buff to it.