Trakis2007-03-21 19:08:38
Stat runes:
I've been thinking about buying artifacts again. Good for IRE, bad for my wallet. I know.
But looking over the artifacts that are for sale, I can't shake the feeling that when it comes to maximizing your archetype's effectiveness, warriors definitely have it the worst. As things stand, warriors are very expensive to play. We are very dependent on our equipment, whether that be armour or weapons.
With mages or druids, each character has the same amount of staff damage that is based on their character's intelligence, their skill level of their specialization, and they have capabilities to deal afflictions through other channels, whether that be dreamweaving, psionics, or their demesne.
With guardians, each guardian has a thrall that deals afflictions at the same rate. Amaru's archangel was exactly the same as my archangel, when I was a Celestine.
Better yet, each of the other archetypes is not as reliant as warriors are on our weapons for their offense. As a warrior, my offense comes only through my weapons, and my weapons are used in every offensive routine (save perhaps dazzle, and inquisition) that I use.
I feel that the weapon runing system could use an overhaul. Right now, I have a scimitar with 80+/237/178 stats, which took me roughly 300-400 tries to forge (Don't know the numbers off the top of my head). I did the math a while back, and in order to rune it, I would need to shave off 37 stat points. This means that unless I put +15 stat runes on it, I will be losing out on overall stats. It's true that the stat runes allow me to move stat points around, so that I can have higher precision and speed, but we're still looking at a significant loss in order to, in the end, result in a weapon roughly only as good as the one that I forged in the first place. It would be akin to paying 900 credits for an aggregate stat gain of 8 points, which can easily be made up with something like a weapon aura, or forging runes.
If I leave my weapons unruned, they will eventually need to be reforged (got about 59 days left on each), or someone could steal them, which is much worse than an Aqua losing his staff, or a Celestine losing his symbol (these are much easier replaced).
For someone who spent either a great deal of time making that weapon, or paid someone a lot of money for a well made weapon, runing a weapon so that it does not decay seems almost necessary. Some weapons lose less from the tempering process than others, such as wounding scimitars (33/210/220 still lies within 463), or broadswords, since speed and precision are all that matter, but when runing scimitars, or weapons that do both damage and wounding, the weapon loses a lot more.
In the case of scimitars like mine, it makes little sense to rune it for 150 credits, when doing so would make it a worse weapon overall.
I was talking to a guildmate today, and he says he plans to fully upgrade his weapons - spending roughly 2.5k credits on each weapon. Since each knight has numerous sets of weapons, even if you don't spend that many credits on your weapons, it can still get very costly.
My point is, right now Knights need some help. I think the following changes would make the archetype a lot better:
1. Remove the tempering requirement for runes, remove stat runes, and instead, have a 300 credit "rune of permanence", which preserves the weapon with whatever stats it was made with. This will reward people who chose forging as their tradeskill, because those rare weapons that take hundreds of attempts to make will actually be worth the amount of time it takes to make them. I think the number of people who buy credits to switch to forging, and the number of people who buy hammers of forging will make up for the loss of credit purchases for 900 cr stat runes. Also, I think people will be more willing to rune their weapons with this new rune. The other runes are fine, and not quite as necessary as the stat rune.
- OR -
2. Reprice the weapon runes to be more in line with the effect they have. Right now 5000 credits in artifacts spent on a guardian is much better spent than 5000 credits in knight artifacts.
I've been thinking about buying artifacts again. Good for IRE, bad for my wallet. I know.
But looking over the artifacts that are for sale, I can't shake the feeling that when it comes to maximizing your archetype's effectiveness, warriors definitely have it the worst. As things stand, warriors are very expensive to play. We are very dependent on our equipment, whether that be armour or weapons.
With mages or druids, each character has the same amount of staff damage that is based on their character's intelligence, their skill level of their specialization, and they have capabilities to deal afflictions through other channels, whether that be dreamweaving, psionics, or their demesne.
With guardians, each guardian has a thrall that deals afflictions at the same rate. Amaru's archangel was exactly the same as my archangel, when I was a Celestine.
Better yet, each of the other archetypes is not as reliant as warriors are on our weapons for their offense. As a warrior, my offense comes only through my weapons, and my weapons are used in every offensive routine (save perhaps dazzle, and inquisition) that I use.
I feel that the weapon runing system could use an overhaul. Right now, I have a scimitar with 80+/237/178 stats, which took me roughly 300-400 tries to forge (Don't know the numbers off the top of my head). I did the math a while back, and in order to rune it, I would need to shave off 37 stat points. This means that unless I put +15 stat runes on it, I will be losing out on overall stats. It's true that the stat runes allow me to move stat points around, so that I can have higher precision and speed, but we're still looking at a significant loss in order to, in the end, result in a weapon roughly only as good as the one that I forged in the first place. It would be akin to paying 900 credits for an aggregate stat gain of 8 points, which can easily be made up with something like a weapon aura, or forging runes.
If I leave my weapons unruned, they will eventually need to be reforged (got about 59 days left on each), or someone could steal them, which is much worse than an Aqua losing his staff, or a Celestine losing his symbol (these are much easier replaced).
For someone who spent either a great deal of time making that weapon, or paid someone a lot of money for a well made weapon, runing a weapon so that it does not decay seems almost necessary. Some weapons lose less from the tempering process than others, such as wounding scimitars (33/210/220 still lies within 463), or broadswords, since speed and precision are all that matter, but when runing scimitars, or weapons that do both damage and wounding, the weapon loses a lot more.
In the case of scimitars like mine, it makes little sense to rune it for 150 credits, when doing so would make it a worse weapon overall.
I was talking to a guildmate today, and he says he plans to fully upgrade his weapons - spending roughly 2.5k credits on each weapon. Since each knight has numerous sets of weapons, even if you don't spend that many credits on your weapons, it can still get very costly.
My point is, right now Knights need some help. I think the following changes would make the archetype a lot better:
1. Remove the tempering requirement for runes, remove stat runes, and instead, have a 300 credit "rune of permanence", which preserves the weapon with whatever stats it was made with. This will reward people who chose forging as their tradeskill, because those rare weapons that take hundreds of attempts to make will actually be worth the amount of time it takes to make them. I think the number of people who buy credits to switch to forging, and the number of people who buy hammers of forging will make up for the loss of credit purchases for 900 cr stat runes. Also, I think people will be more willing to rune their weapons with this new rune. The other runes are fine, and not quite as necessary as the stat rune.
- OR -
2. Reprice the weapon runes to be more in line with the effect they have. Right now 5000 credits in artifacts spent on a guardian is much better spent than 5000 credits in knight artifacts.
Theomar2007-03-21 19:43:46
A) You put this in the wrong thread.
B) Erm, how is making a 300cr rune of permanence, while getting rid of the stat runes, better? It's backwards, because most people won't want to keep their weapons at forging-levels. I'd rather gimp my weapon's damage for two Vernal Knights and two Cosmic Champions (and possibly fire/electricity damage), then spend 300cr on it and keep it at what it is.
What would be better, is to offer a rune of permanance that is 100cr, that does not take into account weapon stats. It'd be non-refundable, but you could take it off. I think a lot of people would buy that, because not all of us can afford to spend 2k+ credits to get our weapon runed out and resetting/non-decay. I could spend 100 and get the stats frozen, and have the weapon reset to me.
B) Erm, how is making a 300cr rune of permanence, while getting rid of the stat runes, better? It's backwards, because most people won't want to keep their weapons at forging-levels. I'd rather gimp my weapon's damage for two Vernal Knights and two Cosmic Champions (and possibly fire/electricity damage), then spend 300cr on it and keep it at what it is.
What would be better, is to offer a rune of permanance that is 100cr, that does not take into account weapon stats. It'd be non-refundable, but you could take it off. I think a lot of people would buy that, because not all of us can afford to spend 2k+ credits to get our weapon runed out and resetting/non-decay. I could spend 100 and get the stats frozen, and have the weapon reset to me.
Tervic2007-03-21 19:50:43
QUOTE(Theomar @ Mar 21 2007, 12:43 PM) 392213
A) You put this in the wrong thread.
Erm, how is making a 300cr rune of permanence, while getting rid of the stat runes, better? It's backwards, because most people won't want to keep their weapons at forging-levels. I'd rather gimp my weapon's damage for two Vernal Knights and two Cosmic Champions (and possibly fire/electricity damage), then spend 300cr on it and keep it at what it is.
What would be better, is to offer a rune of permanance that is 100cr, that does not take into account weapon stats. It'd be non-refundable, but you could take it off. I think a lot of people would buy that, because not all of us can afford to spend 2k+ credits to get our weapon runed out and resetting/non-decay. I could spend 100 and get the stats frozen, and have the weapon reset to me.
Erm, how is making a 300cr rune of permanence, while getting rid of the stat runes, better? It's backwards, because most people won't want to keep their weapons at forging-levels. I'd rather gimp my weapon's damage for two Vernal Knights and two Cosmic Champions (and possibly fire/electricity damage), then spend 300cr on it and keep it at what it is.What would be better, is to offer a rune of permanance that is 100cr, that does not take into account weapon stats. It'd be non-refundable, but you could take it off. I think a lot of people would buy that, because not all of us can afford to spend 2k+ credits to get our weapon runed out and resetting/non-decay. I could spend 100 and get the stats frozen, and have the weapon reset to me.
I like that idea. A lot.
Ashteru2007-03-21 19:52:19
Me too.
VERY much.
VERY much.
Unknown2007-03-21 21:48:00
What about those who already spent a small fortune in credits to buy runes for their weapons? Do you give them a partial refund? Increase the stats on their weapons?
I agree that it takes a lot more gold/credits to bring a warrior up to the same power as other archetypes, but what change could be made that is balanced and fair for both past and future buyers?
I agree that it takes a lot more gold/credits to bring a warrior up to the same power as other archetypes, but what change could be made that is balanced and fair for both past and future buyers?
Daganev2007-03-21 23:29:04
The whole point of the runes having a max cap, is to not have outlandish overpowerd weapons in the game forever.
I don't know why anybody in their right mind would be upset with a 43/242/183 weapon, over a 80/237/178. And that is just with a +5 rune. That is just INSANE
I don't know why anybody in their right mind would be upset with a 43/242/183 weapon, over a 80/237/178. And that is just with a +5 rune. That is just INSANE
Ildaudid2007-03-22 04:48:37
Ok just so you know, because it is not really clear in help offensive artifacts
The stat runes, bleeding runes, and wounding runes have been changed for BM's and AL's
Roark made a post about the stat rune change, I dont remember exactly what the update is but something like this:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr stat (lvl 3) will be +15 +15 +15 while on a two handed weapon it will be +15 +17? +8 so to get +15 (actually now +16) on the speed you will need to buy 2 lvl 3 stat runes.
On the wounding runes:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr wounding (lvl3) will be +15% wounding, while on a two handed weapon it will be +8% wounding, and if you spend 1800cr for 2 lvl 3 woundings you will end up with a total of +16% wounding.
On bleeding runes:
On a one handed weapon you get max bleeding from one rune, you will need 2 runes on a two handed weapon to max the bleeding capability (which is fine)
Before it was a total +30 speed and +30% wounding for spending 1800cr on 2 lvl3 wounding or stat runes. Now the change is fine, I understand why it was done, but just so people are aware before they purchase one they do not get +30 to speed or +30% wounding any more.
I think that spending 150cr or so on a rune that won't cause decay would be nice, but make it so that NO OTHER runes can be attached to that weapon, so that people cannot try to stack runes to a weapon that doesnt have 463 or less total. But do not get rid of stat runes for it.
And yes, I agree that by far warriors have to spend the most in this game to even try to compete with classes that need to spend nothing on their archetype save for skills. Int blessings, etc give magic based attacks so much more damage than a warrior could ever dream of. And for now the game is very unbalanced in the respect of warrior based combat. But, I am still under the impression that Roark is slowly trying to make warriors much much better and an archetype people will want to play, instead of them seeing how insane it is and saying like Clise has said she has heard " Why should I have to work so hard for my kills, when every other archetype has them handed to them"
If that has changed though (Roark not working on warriors anymore) I hope we are informed at some point.
The stat runes, bleeding runes, and wounding runes have been changed for BM's and AL's
Roark made a post about the stat rune change, I dont remember exactly what the update is but something like this:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr stat (lvl 3) will be +15 +15 +15 while on a two handed weapon it will be +15 +17? +8 so to get +15 (actually now +16) on the speed you will need to buy 2 lvl 3 stat runes.
On the wounding runes:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr wounding (lvl3) will be +15% wounding, while on a two handed weapon it will be +8% wounding, and if you spend 1800cr for 2 lvl 3 woundings you will end up with a total of +16% wounding.
On bleeding runes:
On a one handed weapon you get max bleeding from one rune, you will need 2 runes on a two handed weapon to max the bleeding capability (which is fine)
Before it was a total +30 speed and +30% wounding for spending 1800cr on 2 lvl3 wounding or stat runes. Now the change is fine, I understand why it was done, but just so people are aware before they purchase one they do not get +30 to speed or +30% wounding any more.
I think that spending 150cr or so on a rune that won't cause decay would be nice, but make it so that NO OTHER runes can be attached to that weapon, so that people cannot try to stack runes to a weapon that doesnt have 463 or less total. But do not get rid of stat runes for it.
And yes, I agree that by far warriors have to spend the most in this game to even try to compete with classes that need to spend nothing on their archetype save for skills. Int blessings, etc give magic based attacks so much more damage than a warrior could ever dream of. And for now the game is very unbalanced in the respect of warrior based combat. But, I am still under the impression that Roark is slowly trying to make warriors much much better and an archetype people will want to play, instead of them seeing how insane it is and saying like Clise has said she has heard " Why should I have to work so hard for my kills, when every other archetype has them handed to them"
If that has changed though (Roark not working on warriors anymore) I hope we are informed at some point.
Unknown2007-03-22 05:22:50
If a weapon can be made within the games mechanics I don't understand why it can't be runed to be permanent without losing some of the stat points.
Ixion2007-03-22 06:00:43
QUOTE(Trakis @ Mar 21 2007, 02:08 PM) 392208
For someone who spent either a great deal of time making that weapon, or paid someone a lot of money for a well made weapon, runing a weapon so that it does not decay seems almost necessary. Some weapons lose less from the tempering process than others, such as wounding scimitars (33/210/220 still lies within 463), or broadswords, since speed and precision are all that matter, but when runing scimitars, or weapons that do both damage and wounding, the weapon loses a lot more.
Interesting post, but to clarify, 33/210/220 is not a valid scimitar possible forge. I think you mean rapier/hammer.
Nico2007-03-22 06:24:56
QUOTE(daganev @ Mar 21 2007, 07:29 PM) 392264
The whole point of the runes having a max cap, is to not have outlandish overpowerd weapons in the game forever.
I don't know why anybody in their right mind would be upset with a 43/242/183 weapon, over a 80/237/178. And that is just with a +5 rune. That is just INSANE
I don't know why anybody in their right mind would be upset with a 43/242/183 weapon, over a 80/237/178. And that is just with a +5 rune. That is just INSANE
I would be.
Even considering using the 15 stat runes, making that same weapon 53/252/193, it's still not very attractive to me. Yes, you'll have incredible precision and good speed, but trust me, you still want that damage. The only way I would ever buy runes for my weapons would be if I were a trans forger with drawdown, making those same weapons 73/272/213. That is the only way I feel the 900 credit runes would be worthwhile, since I'd still have reasonable damage to offset wound curing.
Honestly, knocking off 40 points from damage is a pretty big chunk. Comparing my hammer (52 damage) to my morningstar (92 damage), I lose about 200 damage against 113 blunt protection plate and trans resilience. 400 damage less per combo is -huge-. That 400 damage per combo is often the key factor in forcing someone to sip health rather than sparkle/scroll and use health to cure wounds.
Does that make me not in my right mind? But I must be doing -something- right, no?
ferlas2007-03-22 16:07:15
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Mar 22 2007, 04:48 AM) 392327
On a one handed weapon a 900cr stat (lvl 3) will be +15 +15 +15 while on a two handed weapon it will be +15 +17? +8 so to get +15 (actually now +16) on the speed you will need to buy 2 lvl 3 stat runes.
On the wounding runes:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr wounding (lvl3) will be +15% wounding, while on a two handed weapon it will be +8% wounding, and if you spend 1800cr for 2 lvl 3 woundings you will end up with a total of +16% wounding.
On bleeding runes:
On the wounding runes:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr wounding (lvl3) will be +15% wounding, while on a two handed weapon it will be +8% wounding, and if you spend 1800cr for 2 lvl 3 woundings you will end up with a total of +16% wounding.
On bleeding runes:
So two handers are still better off with runes than one handers?
With fully runed up a one hander is getting
+30/+30/+15 effectivly and 15% increase in wounding
Two handers are getting
+30/+34/+16 effectivly and a 16% increase in wounding
And actually now that I work it out with just +10 stat runes on my weapons I'm worse off than I would have been just to leave my scimitars unruned. Lost a good 40 damage on both weapons with only a small boost to wounding and speed. So basically runes suck unless your near maxing out.
ferlas2007-03-22 16:07:52
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Mar 22 2007, 04:48 AM) 392327
On a one handed weapon a 900cr stat (lvl 3) will be +15 +15 +15 while on a two handed weapon it will be +15 +17? +8 so to get +15 (actually now +16) on the speed you will need to buy 2 lvl 3 stat runes.
On the wounding runes:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr wounding (lvl3) will be +15% wounding, while on a two handed weapon it will be +8% wounding, and if you spend 1800cr for 2 lvl 3 woundings you will end up with a total of +16% wounding.
On bleeding runes:
On the wounding runes:
On a one handed weapon a 900cr wounding (lvl3) will be +15% wounding, while on a two handed weapon it will be +8% wounding, and if you spend 1800cr for 2 lvl 3 woundings you will end up with a total of +16% wounding.
On bleeding runes:
So two handers are still better off with runes than one handers?
With fully runed up a one hander is getting
+30/+30/+15 effectivly and 15% increase in wounding
Two handers are getting
+30/+34/+16 effectivly and a 16% increase in wounding
And actually now that I work it out with just +10 stat runes on my weapons I'm worse off than I would have been just to leave my scimitars unruned. Lost a good 40 damage on both weapons with only a small boost to wounding and speed. So basically runes suck unless your near maxing out.
Trakis2007-03-22 16:08:11
Some clarifications:
Scimitars cannot have a damage stat less than 66. This means that with a scimitar of 66 damage, and max precision (Let's say it's 235), you can only have a speed of 162. This means that just about everyone who runes a scimitar is going to rune a 66/230/160 scimitar.
Right now, even if you spend the amount of time to forge a really nice weapon, you are inevitably going to want to rune it. Runing it with the way runing works now means you're going to:
a. Lose a bunch of stats, and
b. End up with a weapon that didn't take quite as much effort to make.
Some people spend hours at the forge (Admittedly, I used to be one of them), but I feel like the reward for spending that amount of time at the forge is taken away when you want to rune your weapon.
Regardless, my concerns really only touch upon the bigger issues that:
-warriors have a hard time doing damage to other warriors, which makes it hard to stack wounds on another warrior unless you rune your weapons, or have a champ helm
-the warrior archetype is disproportionately expensive to play. (Better ratio of credits spent:direct increase in offensive power). Just an example: The rune that allows for 20% more magical damage costs 1800 credits, but two wounding runes that give you a 15% increase in wounding costs the same amount in credits.
Not only are the two runes less of an increase in overall offense, but they also come at the cost of requiring your weapon to be tempered down to the 463 stat total as well - a difference you may need to make up for with additional stat runes. Furthermore, these runes are only for one set of weapons, and most warriors carry two or three sets of weapons around.
Scimitars cannot have a damage stat less than 66. This means that with a scimitar of 66 damage, and max precision (Let's say it's 235), you can only have a speed of 162. This means that just about everyone who runes a scimitar is going to rune a 66/230/160 scimitar.
Right now, even if you spend the amount of time to forge a really nice weapon, you are inevitably going to want to rune it. Runing it with the way runing works now means you're going to:
a. Lose a bunch of stats, and
b. End up with a weapon that didn't take quite as much effort to make.
Some people spend hours at the forge (Admittedly, I used to be one of them), but I feel like the reward for spending that amount of time at the forge is taken away when you want to rune your weapon.
Regardless, my concerns really only touch upon the bigger issues that:
-warriors have a hard time doing damage to other warriors, which makes it hard to stack wounds on another warrior unless you rune your weapons, or have a champ helm
-the warrior archetype is disproportionately expensive to play. (Better ratio of credits spent:direct increase in offensive power). Just an example: The rune that allows for 20% more magical damage costs 1800 credits, but two wounding runes that give you a 15% increase in wounding costs the same amount in credits.
Not only are the two runes less of an increase in overall offense, but they also come at the cost of requiring your weapon to be tempered down to the 463 stat total as well - a difference you may need to make up for with additional stat runes. Furthermore, these runes are only for one set of weapons, and most warriors carry two or three sets of weapons around.
Ildaudid2007-03-22 16:28:08
QUOTE(ferlas @ Mar 22 2007, 12:07 PM) 392454
So two handers are still better off with runes than one handers?
With fully runed up a one hander is getting
+30/+30/+15 effectivly and 15% increase in wounding
Two handers are getting
+30/+34/+16 effectivly and a 16% increase in wounding
And actually now that I work it out with just +10 stat runes on my weapons I'm worse off than I would have been just to leave my scimitars unruned. Lost a good 40 damage on both weapons with only a small boost to wounding and speed. So basically runes suck unless your near maxing out.
With fully runed up a one hander is getting
+30/+30/+15 effectivly and 15% increase in wounding
Two handers are getting
+30/+34/+16 effectivly and a 16% increase in wounding
And actually now that I work it out with just +10 stat runes on my weapons I'm worse off than I would have been just to leave my scimitars unruned. Lost a good 40 damage on both weapons with only a small boost to wounding and speed. So basically runes suck unless your near maxing out.
Oh I agree, never said it was worse off. I do think the lvl3 wounding is a waste though 6% increase for 1000 more credits is not worth it. I would rather spend 800 credits on 2 lvl 2 wounding (giving me a total of 10% increase) then 900 credits on one lvl 3 wounding (giving me 8% increase) or 1800 credits on two level 3 wounding (giving me 16% increase)
Now I would definately buy level 3 stat mods though, if needed. But yea they aren't bad at all, and they are now coded within specs. I just think people need to know what they are getting into when you buy them. If you read help offensive artifacts the only explanation is about elemental runes that cause 1/6 per on a 2 handed weapon. Nothing about how the stats are halved on a two handed weapon. So my post was more for clarity.
QUOTE(Trakis @ Mar 22 2007, 12:08 PM) 392455
Some clarifications:
Scimitars cannot have a damage stat less than 66. This means that with a scimitar of 66 damage, and max precision (Let's say it's 235), you can only have a speed of 162. This means that just about everyone who runes a scimitar is going to rune a 66/230/160 scimitar.
a. Lose a bunch of stats, and
b. End up with a weapon that didn't take quite as much effort to make.
Some people spend hours at the forge (Admittedly, I used to be one of them), but I feel like the reward for spending that amount of time at the forge is taken away when you want to rune your weapon.
Scimitars cannot have a damage stat less than 66. This means that with a scimitar of 66 damage, and max precision (Let's say it's 235), you can only have a speed of 162. This means that just about everyone who runes a scimitar is going to rune a 66/230/160 scimitar.
a. Lose a bunch of stats, and
b. End up with a weapon that didn't take quite as much effort to make.
Some people spend hours at the forge (Admittedly, I used to be one of them), but I feel like the reward for spending that amount of time at the forge is taken away when you want to rune your weapon.
Make that days and days and days.
QUOTE
Regardless, my concerns really only touch upon the bigger issues that:
-warriors have a hard time doing damage to other warriors, which makes it hard to stack wounds on another warrior unless you rune your weapons, or have a champ helm
-the warrior archetype is disproportionately expensive to play. (Better ratio of credits spent:direct increase in offensive power). Just an example: The rune that allows for 20% more magical damage costs 1800 credits, but two wounding runes that give you a 15% increase in wounding costs the same amount in credits.
Yeah, I don't get how people bitch about us, yet they have no clue, unless they played a warrior how expensive it is to even be one, and with the least return for your dollar, I am even surprised warriors still exist in Lusternia.
QUOTE
Not only are the two runes less of an increase in overall offense, but they also come at the cost of requiring your weapon to be tempered down to the 463 stat total as well - a difference you may need to make up for with additional stat runes. Furthermore, these runes are only for one set of weapons, and most warriors carry two or three sets of weapons around.
I know why the set cap stats earlier, but since warriors have been nerfed so much since then, maybe it is time to bring the stats back up some, or get to fixing warriors in general. Make anything over 3000 wounds to cause 20 bleeding a tick (increasing until they are under 3000) and when people get to 5-8000 wounds on one area (75 bleeding a tick, increasing), anything over 10,000 wounds on one area would give 100 bleeding a tick.
Or maybe wounds could actually do something such as the higher the wounds on some body parts, more internal blood loss (which we dont see as damage, but do see as fainting and blackouts?)
I don't know, but seriously this mighty mighty magic world the basin has become, which leans more to nerfing warriors than leveling the playing field, really needs to be put right again. It's been well over a year since there has been any real complaints about how warriors are too OP. (Last complaints were, and I agree with, the assault problem and people dying to 2 hit beheads with assualts, oh bugger and Ixion and his sword, which I didn't count, since Ixion's swords couldnt dish out nearly as much damage as 1 staff blast from Forren the OP Mage.)
Nico2007-03-22 16:30:29
I agree fully with Trakis' sentiments.
However, that now posits the question...how to fix the situation? The situation being that warriors do not find that the credit investment required is worth it with the current caps.
So, to fix it, there are three different ways to go about it.
1) Lower credit prices on weapon runes. However, this now presents the problem concerning past purchases of weapon runes. How is IRE as a business supposed to handle those? Refunds? Not sure if that's what they'd like to do. Anyways, lowering the prices on these weapon runes, to me, sounds like a better business model as more people will be willing to buy weapon runes in the end, rather than just the 2-3 people willing to shell out 5k.
2) Increase the weapon caps for runing. Again, this presents a different sort of problem, that with combat balance. Yes, runed weapons with a higher cap would make warriors ungodly. However, for that OOC investment, shouldn't you be given a significant advantage? That's what you paid for, isn't it?
3) Introduce the aforementioned idea of a 'rune of permanence' that will make your weapon non-decay and reset to you when dropped. This rune will not have -any- weapon cap requirements, allowing those forgers who spend ages at the forge to really find their time was worthwhile. This rune can be later traded in at the normal conversion rate for artifacts.
However, that now posits the question...how to fix the situation? The situation being that warriors do not find that the credit investment required is worth it with the current caps.
So, to fix it, there are three different ways to go about it.
1) Lower credit prices on weapon runes. However, this now presents the problem concerning past purchases of weapon runes. How is IRE as a business supposed to handle those? Refunds? Not sure if that's what they'd like to do. Anyways, lowering the prices on these weapon runes, to me, sounds like a better business model as more people will be willing to buy weapon runes in the end, rather than just the 2-3 people willing to shell out 5k.
2) Increase the weapon caps for runing. Again, this presents a different sort of problem, that with combat balance. Yes, runed weapons with a higher cap would make warriors ungodly. However, for that OOC investment, shouldn't you be given a significant advantage? That's what you paid for, isn't it?
3) Introduce the aforementioned idea of a 'rune of permanence' that will make your weapon non-decay and reset to you when dropped. This rune will not have -any- weapon cap requirements, allowing those forgers who spend ages at the forge to really find their time was worthwhile. This rune can be later traded in at the normal conversion rate for artifacts.
Ildaudid2007-03-22 16:45:11
QUOTE(Nico @ Mar 22 2007, 12:30 PM) 392464
I agree fully with Trakis' sentiments.
However, that now posits the question...how to fix the situation? The situation being that warriors do not find that the credit investment required is worth it with the current caps.
So, to fix it, there are three different ways to go about it.
1) Lower credit prices on weapon runes. However, this now presents the problem concerning past purchases of weapon runes. How is IRE as a business supposed to handle those? Refunds? Not sure if that's what they'd like to do. Anyways, lowering the prices on these weapon runes, to me, sounds like a better business model as more people will be willing to buy weapon runes in the end, rather than just the 2-3 people willing to shell out 5k.
However, that now posits the question...how to fix the situation? The situation being that warriors do not find that the credit investment required is worth it with the current caps.
So, to fix it, there are three different ways to go about it.
1) Lower credit prices on weapon runes. However, this now presents the problem concerning past purchases of weapon runes. How is IRE as a business supposed to handle those? Refunds? Not sure if that's what they'd like to do. Anyways, lowering the prices on these weapon runes, to me, sounds like a better business model as more people will be willing to buy weapon runes in the end, rather than just the 2-3 people willing to shell out 5k.
Good option but yeah Lusternia may not want to refund.
QUOTE
2) Increase the weapon caps for runing. Again, this presents a different sort of problem, that with combat balance. Yes, runed weapons with a higher cap would make warriors ungodly. However, for that OOC investment, shouldn't you be given a significant advantage? That's what you paid for, isn't it?
QUOTE
3) Introduce the aforementioned idea of a 'rune of permanence' that will make your weapon non-decay and reset to you when dropped. This rune will not have -any- weapon cap requirements, allowing those forgers who spend ages at the forge to really find their time was worthwhile. This rune can be later traded in at the normal conversion rate for artifacts.
This by far seems the best idea since it would make them money, and keep non artied weapons permanent, without being able to add different stat/wound/elemental/bleeding bonuses to them.
Trakis2007-03-22 21:15:53
I think the amount of time it takes to forge one of those "perfect" weapons is a good enough substitute for stat runes. People who took forging as a tradeskill would actually benefit from this change, as their services would actually be worth something again.
I'd really love to see stat runes removed, and have stats just stay the way they are when forged, with the option of adding current elemental, wounding, and bleeding runes.
I think the real issue is: what happens to the people who have already runed their weapons?
I'd really love to see stat runes removed, and have stats just stay the way they are when forged, with the option of adding current elemental, wounding, and bleeding runes.
I think the real issue is: what happens to the people who have already runed their weapons?
Ista2007-03-22 23:41:03
My question: Has anyone ever emailed the artifact people and seen if it was possible to do this? And if so, how much. I know that you can sometimes get things done that aren't listed.
Ildaudid2007-03-23 02:33:24
QUOTE(Ista @ Mar 22 2007, 07:41 PM) 392605
My question: Has anyone ever emailed the artifact people and seen if it was possible to do this? And if so, how much. I know that you can sometimes get things done that aren't listed.
I really doubt the artifact people, since it's not like Imperian, you would need to email support here, and that is Estarra (since she got the dirty pics of Reiha's room
) but I do not think they would bypass the cap stats here for any custom artifact. The weapons used to be higher, but they changed them to 463, and 463 it remains. So really doubt that you can get an artifact made to keep a 283 524 175 prc greatsword or an 180 180 200 broadsword for a mere 150 or so credits.Ceren2007-03-24 02:44:25
How about this. Raise the stat cap to 490, change lvl 1 stat runes to 2+ stats for 40 credits, lvl 2 stat runes to 4+ stats for 80 credits, and lvl 3 stat runes to 6+ for 160 credits. Owners of already existing stat runes would find their runes nerfed, but they would be allowed to add 30 points of stats to their weapons appropiately (as in, not violating caps). This means they lose absolutely nothing, and owners of lvl 1 and 2 stat runes would actually be gaining some stats. They probably should receive some credit compensation as well so they don't regret not waiting for the cheap runes.
Anyway, this would keep the cap for artifact weapons at 508, allow people to keep more of the stats they forged for hours/days to get, restore tempered stats more cheaply, and allow people to make their weapons non-decay for much less. However, as a non-forger I may be overestimating a forger's ability to create a 490 stat total weapon.
Anyway, this would keep the cap for artifact weapons at 508, allow people to keep more of the stats they forged for hours/days to get, restore tempered stats more cheaply, and allow people to make their weapons non-decay for much less. However, as a non-forger I may be overestimating a forger's ability to create a 490 stat total weapon.
