One might argue that inquisition is very similar to toadcurse.
Inquisition is a time based set up requiring full power at the beginning with high enough discipline to regen power in time to pull it off alone, strips all defense save a few and stuns.
Toadcurse is a half mana set up that strips all defense save a few, turn the target into a toad which is aeoned, and has an option of an instakill.

According to this log, cleave does the same health damage as his jabs do. So what is the disadvantage to using cleave then? Less wounding, more balance loss?

Longer balance loss.

Cleave is basically a strike and double raze in one action. You also lose balance for that duration too. Its actually faster to raze a rebounding and then strike if you are concerned about recovery time. Though its worth it to cleave if the target has rebounding and puts up a shield. (But then most warriors are lazy and just cleave )

Two hits, last I checked. I've been toaded and survived the first stomp. This was as a lvl 78ish human warrior, if that makes any difference, and then managed to hop away long enough for it to wear off and get the heck out of there.

It was a duel of course I wasnt running at all, not gonna happen unless arena or an actual fight.



Yeah, I had Baal and Nifily for me own, so you wouldnt have been able to pact with them



Now, if you notice in that fight, there was no hound, I had spent the last 15 mins to find that damn thing and it was sitting on Nil the whole time, pissed me off and I wasn't really paying much attention to the fight as much as I was to where the hell my hound was, I wish we could just order the hound to void home or some (Like Drizzt can his astral panther) so as I can find the dumb son of a bitch when I want him.

Anyways that said, I could have shielded, but was off eq some of the times, Ciaran's system even tells you when to shield, and all that. But 2 angels hitting you with afflictions all the time is not always fun either, especially when my skillset requires either I. prepping, or II. Having my hound with me alot of the times as backup.

But I coulda paid more attention too... Either way it was a good fight. And we will do it again soon, with my hound.

One more thing, the damage that was done to him is in no way reflective of the average PB damage seen, that sword is 395 damage and artied, so PB's and other warriors do not think you will hit a cloth wearer that hard for damage with a regular weapon. Just so you know.

I am glad you posted it though, I wanted to see how much it hit you for, and remember Talkan you came back to Nil a few times, some of them undeffed but the first time or two I hope you were deffed when we fought


And oh yeah, cleave takes about 5 sec's on avg to recoup from, I am lazy and don't always raze/strike instead of cleave, A strike for me is on avg 3.5 seconds.

Damn I didn't keep a log of my side of the battle, will keep one next time

All in all it was fun, cept my damn hound was MIA, stupid friggin hound.

I hear you on the hound. BOND HEARTSTOP should just kill the darn thing so we can get another.

I was gonna bring up the same point clise did. Inquisition is better than toadcurse in my opinion.

well first i had a question about focus spirit cause I always try to use it when people start with infidel or heretic whichever is first and nothing happens..or nothing I notice anyways. Could someone explain when it could be used or what exactly it does cause it doesn't seem to cure the heretic or infidel brand to me. And if it does cure using focus spirit drains a fourth of the mana, meaning you only need another four to wrack or the other one.

anyways about inquisition/toadcurse. Inquistion strips all defs like toadcurse. It's not an instant kill it's a two stomp kill with high chances of dodging. Inquisition has a stun effect while a toad is free to hop away after you've lost equilibrium from the toadcurse. Toads can be cured through kissing. Really I've actually escaped more times as a toad then I've been squished. way more. toad in a pit can't be stomped on either unless your clever. but i guess that doesn't relate to one on one battles.

Focus spirit has a fail chance.
Focus spirit stops the glowing, not the actual "affliction" of the heretic/infidel branding.
Glowing lets the sacrament user know when the target is ready for the next stage. HOWEVER, the glowing is NOT needed to continue to inquisition. A simple timer/echo can let you know when you should do it.

In other words, FS= waste of mana and not a good idea in this case. Some find it appealingto compare toadcurse with inquisition. Toadcurse is like absolve and inquisition rolled into one, and worse than both.

i'd have to disagree with toadcurse being worse than both...wait nevermind! I for somereason thought worse meant it was better than both combined...not sure how. yes toadcurse is worse than both. plus they have absolve, plus they have judgement. wiccans get...toadcurse...and more toadcurse...and oh wait toadcurse...plus if you just shield after the first hex thrown you've more than likely ruined the offense because then more have to be drawn unlike tarot where they can just keep flinging cards as they have them..

Instant draw + throw hexes for slightly longer balance time? I would -love- it. And wiccan really do need love.. :/

Two of my best memories from Lusternia involve toadcurse. First is when Narsrim and Tuek attacked me on astral by the goats, and they toadcursed me, and I managed to get away from both of them. Then I came back and transvered down to cosmic from capricon, and Tuek was so mad he transversed into Nil's guards after me. Second time is when I was fighting three random Serens (think Nejii was in there) and got toadcursed, and hopped away. One of them said, "Why did you do that, he always gets away when toaded"

No, they really don't :/

SD's don't.

EDIT: What I mean is that if you have someone with high health + high mana, there is abolutely nothing I can do. I can't toadcurse, and moonburst damagekill.. we had that topic. I'd just like for us to actually get some more options for killing. Celestines have so many in comparison it makes me green with envy.

MDs don't either.

And Celestines don't have nearly as many options as you think, it basically boils down to absolve (usually impractical) or inqui/soulless.

Or judgement (Fun in group spam). If those aren't options for Celestines then I'd like wiccans to have these non-options too.

EDIT: And I got quite a few people with absolve. I've always prefered it over souless..

I don't really remember you getting competent fighters with absolve. The most I remember about your celestine days was you inquisitioning a person and then trying to cosmic fire him to death.

Actually I think I remember that second time...it would have been me that toadcursed, then everyone else forgot how to stomp, and Zenji would have been the person who spoke up.

Although I think that's happened more than once, so it might not have been us that time...

Anyway, toadcurse got changed to not give the toad a GOoJF card, they're now aeoned and actually visible, so toadcurse isn't quite so crap as it used to be.

Constant shielding won't stop an inquisiton against someone who knows what they are doing, I don't find inquisition on its own overpowered it is only when combined with a soulless that it becomes to powerful and too easy to kill someone. The long stun/downtime time on inquisition could be removed and the skill tweaked in someway. The stun time combined with carcer makes the soulless almost totally unavoidable except with massive ammounts of luck.

If it was given a double damage aspect like omen, still strips all defences and the long stun time removed you would still be left with a very useful, powerful and versitile skill while also removing the easy combo of a soulless.



Two quite good methods to kill, absolve, soulless,inquisition, with plus a number of other ways that can be used situationally such as soulless on its own/blackout etc, judge, damage, compare that to lets say moondancers who get one quite good method to kill, toadcurse, plus one other way which isn't that good but can be used situationally, damage. Celestines have good options open to them.

Celestines could be a much more interesting class, their other instakills changed or altered to be more interactive and enjoyable but you have to face the facts that celestines are not going to get any upgrades as long as the charge soulless then repeat inquisition method is still in place as its a very good way to kill.

You'd have to downgrade the easy of its use if you want significant changes to make the celestine class more interesting.


NB:Also nerf the fricking champion pets and other artifacts already, the handmaiden and the helms are silly.

@Ferlas: Moondancers rarely kill with damage against a competant fighter one-on-one. Moonburst may have been tweaked slightly for the better, and Shine is a nice boost. But I can really only think of Moonburst killing someone only in a group. Toadcurse is really our only viable main way of killing someone, and MD's could use some love in some aspects.

As for Inquis, I've never been hit by it.. I've only been Heretic'd once, and I rolled away from it.. and that was during the War.

Currently, Celestines have the easiest ways of killing someone. I'd be more than happy to trade Toadcurse for Absolve. I could really careless about an instakill that has a chance of not working and that strips defs, my job is to kill you.. not grief you ( though I suppose that is the goal of some people ).

To be truthful, and this is just a polite observation, Celestines are given the best in terms of instant kills. As Aesyra said above, I'm always seeing Judgement deaths on Deathsight when Celest and Mag are having their raids.

As for the pets and helms, don't nerf them. I may be alone on this, but after playing most IRE games.. The Champ Artifacts are by far the most innovative thing. Plus I would think it would be an incentive for most to get Champion, and it's also a boost to the Champs that don't have every other artie.