Are you still trying to convince us how good this thing is and how worthwhile it is for us to have it? Just stop, really...

I seem to recall you/visaeris arguing that the Lich construct wasn't useful for high leveled necromancers anyways. Well, apply your argument to that, except include the fact that lich for a mage is far better than the milieu of abilities this gives our lowbies. Especially concerning that every single one of those abilities is a variant of a low lesson skill. This brings up the issue of how fair the Crypt is comparatively, since it has the same costs yet yields a much better bonus to many Mags.

Basically, you can't make those criticisms on our evaluation of the font when you guys' yourselves have used the same defense in saying how the crypt isn't that good.

And just as a side note, I personally like the font.

No, this is stemming off of Anisu saying it was there only so your other constructs are not attacked (and now, that I noticed it that she and many of celest think angelfount sucks), but even from your quote (the bolded section) proves even more that this font does not suck. And if you are referring to Arch Lich, then yes, this may be better than Arch Lich. Archlich give passive freezing at a giant mana drain, and as a plus side it gives no stat penalty for being a lich during daytime hours. (Which the stat penatly removal is actually nice, passive chills may be nice for aquamancy but not necromancy, where it is a passive lich touch, and like lich touch it is not masked, and easily cured.) Now lets look at this from a different perspective:

To gain these 2 benifits ( I will humor you and say arch lich is the best thing evah) you would have to be trans necromancy to begin with.

Now if you are not trans necromancy, you will end up being able to lich, without having trans necromancy. (Which again is nice, trust me I won't lie. I liked being an Undead Human Tracker, but mainly for bashing purposes and for just the cool race Undead Tracker)

This equals 1 thing for non trans necromancy users.

Now, before anyone starts off misinterpreting this post, I am not saying the construct sucks at all. Now it can be said it may not be that useful for HIGH LEVEL necromancers, but actually what was (at least I) meant so long ago at least was it was not terribly useful for TRANS necromancers.

Now again, I was not even wanting to beat this dead horse again, but I do not want to be misinterpreted again.

AngelFount:

1. Allows praying for health
2. Allows praying for ego
3. Allows praying for mana
4. Allows praying for affliction removal
5. Allows praying for shield
6. Gives an angelic? aura (and I guess Forren states it is a 5% damage reduction)

1 - 6 Is for everyone sacraments and non sacraments alike correct?

7. Eliminates a power cost for resurrect
8. Eliminates a power cost for sacrifice
9. Eliminates a power cost for benediction

7 - 9 Are for sacraments users on top of the whole of celest correct?

Now, 6 things that can potentially help all of celest, but moreso lower level celestians is nice. Also 3 things that can help sacrements users, and if I remember right Sacrifice, Ressurect nor Benediction are the trans skill in Sacraments, Trueheal is. So these sacrements users get the benefits of these added font powers without having to be trans Sacraments.

So I think when it is shone in this light, the actual amount of things AngelFont can do compared to the Black Crypt can is where people seem to differ on what is considered good or not.

You all think Lich alone is the best thing, we think that a total of 9 different capabilities is better than 3 varients on one ability.

When it comes down to it, I could probably conceed that Lich is better for bashing (I wouldn't go so far as saying it is in PvP especially with that horrid ghost change that basically makes Liches stuck in place in any type of water/deluged environment). But will anyone from Celest even concede to agreeing (besides you Nico) that 6 powers (9) if you are a sacraments user does not suck? Especially not for the lower level members of celest?

Is it not worth the cost if it benefits people other than the upper tier circles/combatants of celest? I say the crypt is worth the cost, but not after it being destroyed 2 maybe 3 times. That's when most constructs would lose their cost-benefits, not while it is still the very first time it was raised.

Anyways counselor, are we ever come to an agreement, agreeing to disagree if possible?

You know what....I was going to post a lengthy dissection of your post but I realized it's fruitless to argue with someone who is spending more time trying to come up with preposturous reasonings to back up his arguments than actually taking the time to interpret what is being said.

I'll say a few things though.

1 Trans skill > multitude of minor skills (some mirror skills as low as novice skills, others are weak variants of higher skills, i.e. gedulah). If you strictly compare lesson costs for each, the Crypt gives you a free 1715 lesson cost skill, whereas the font gives us a bunch of minor benefits on skills whose -total- lesson cost is about 1000. That includes Gedulah, even though the gedulah-like affliction cure prayer only cures 1 as opposed to the 2 cured by gedulah, so I'm not sure if the lesson cost is equatable.

I never said the font sucked. However, I am not agreeing with you in any sense of the word 'agreeing'. I said I liked the font because of certain abilities that are situationally useful. However it is in no way comparable to the crypt in power, even though it has the same costs.


My previous post was merely pointing out the error in your argument, that being that you're being hypocritical in criticizing our evaluation of the font and not criticizing your own/fellow citizens'.

Y'know, whenever I find myself thinking another organization's construct is so much more better than mine...

I usually try to destroy it so that I won't have to deal with it being so much more better than mine. It usually solves the problem.

That's odd.

Serenwilde hasn't tried to destroy any construct better than its own, yet!

I guess we will never agree 1 Trans skill is not any better than 9 different skills. But it is obvious that the admin seem to agree or you wouldn't get 9 as you say "some mirror skills as low as novice skills, others are weak variants of higher skills, i.e. gedulah" skills.

I guess we are all lucky you didn't end up with Glom's construct.

Anyways, it's a good construct for low level celestians, my aqua likes it. Sorry so many high level celestians think it sucks, but I guess when someone is handed 2 diamonds and then one is taken away, they will always think it sucks. No matter how nice the diamond that remains is.

@nico

Chin up soldier, it's decent and celest already has the most powerful fighting force at the moment. Life's not that bad, harden up and find something better to cry about.

@ildaudid - laetitia + puella + shield = novice skills. Under ~30 lessons to obtain.

@murphy

If you didn't notice I'm not crying over it. I like the font, a lot. The shield is great for guardians against aeon throws, and the affliction heal works while prone (can get lucky cure out of permalocks). I'm merely pointing out to Ildaudid that his argument is flawed and he should just stop trying to convince us how good the font is, and how the Crypt is really not good at all.

Ildaudid you are truly arrogant if you think you know better why the font was placed then the person that placed it. I let you in on a secret, it is currently proposed to the council to just let the angelfont die off and be done with it, it's not worth our time and effort, I prefer to get the harmony spire up instead, 25% extra xp for visiting my bashing and influencing places and free immolation for all.

It is the rp sense of having the aura and the fareness to magnagora so they can get their power reward in the next weakening that is preventing me from just proposing to deconstruct it.

justice altar > angelfont
purepearl > angelfont
harmony spire > angelfont


@Nico: I assume you mean when you are out of power for the elohora pray because in all other cases gedulah will be a lot more usefull. And in most cases when I get curelocked by people I tend to be entangled too, which disables the ability to use praying.

And now to clarify for those people that seem to be unable to grasp that this construct should be compared to the others, while some of the things surely are usefull, one must consider the cost of the construct and the annoyance of defending the construct, and when you then see Serenwilde gets a plane wide sacrifice and Magnagora gets lich for all while you get 5 slightly better novice skills, a bad gedulah, an aura that doesn't reduce much damage and some power saving skills (which they are not really since you are paying 60k power for it in the first place) then yes our construct sucks, Glomdoring's construct sucks too, mainly because administration didn't know what to give us.

I remember someone saying in this topic that maybe it should wings, well if it gave flying then it might actually be worth it's cost.

More so when I'm prone, slitlocked, with a mending/regen cure necessary leg. It's nice then. Also, it can cure tendon's instantly, similar to allheale, which is nice. But like I said, if often cures love first

yes when you don't have power for gedulah which can also be used prone

In addition to "don't have power," there's "don't want to use power I could spend on other things."

In all honesty I really like the font. Despite what others say about the the benefits not being worth it. For one it's attracting quite a number of young ones, and having these prayers are a great deal of help to them. However I wish the mana cost for acquiring the aura would be decreased so that those fresh from the portal could use it. They of all people could use it. I love the way the aura grants more interaction between guilds, Celestines and Sacrament paladins get to benedict Bards other paladins aquamancers or other younger ones. Though one could consider these little acts insignificant, these acts are the small steps leading into decent interactions within the city. Call me melodramatic or whatever, but I believe the Angel Font should be for the younger ones, and not those who are better off in terms of Circles. I know the Celestian government is upset with the font due to it's lack of direct benefit for them. They are quite annoyed to be defending something of is comparatively unbeneficial to them. I just wish that Celest would view the Angel Font differently.

depends how you look at it. it has great utility. overall I'd have to say yes it's great for everyone else. from the perspective of wanting better damage or something cool for combat like the freeze aura it's terrible. serens' pretty passive as it stands so no one wants to raid anyways which means no one's gonna die to need a soul rezz...
on the plus side I get to kill Kalodan!

Psh. I recently got sacced for, and I got to say....yours is absurdly OP. It's like sacrifice, but far better because you conglutinate when dieing for it, and you don't need to move to the circle. If I had that thing, I'd raid without any worries, EVER.

Honestly Alodia, you are right. It just is sad that when anyone who doesn't play a main celestian alt says that it is good for the younger members of the city, it turns into the whole crypt is better than fount bullshite argument again.

@Anisu: You want people to believe that the fount was made by you (and approved by a select few) as a diversionary construct? Now who is the one claiming arrogance?

Can't gedulah with broken limbs.

Or severed tendons.
EDIT: Was a bit biased, the rest.

Ildaudid, just stop. We understand. You think the Font is great. We think it's ok. You think the Crypt sucks. We think it's absurdly OP. Seems your posts are less concerned with convincing -us- of your viewpoint than it is with convincing people who aren't involved in either org and thus rely on the forums for opinion forming information.


Argument over, mm'kay?

Please Nico, take Murphy's advice and harden up and stop whining. Alodia said everything I said last night, and you try to attack me about it AGAIN. No matter how much you wanna try and turn this into some retarded argument let it go. AngelFont is not great but neither is Crypt, both are fine.... now the argument has ended. Thanks for coming out.