cherubs die in one or two hits...so no

(also to note, a cherub would only be a pet like the ones we can buy anyway, as only celestines can have pledges to give them powers)

You'd give people the ability to make one pledge with the skill, I'd imagine. I think that'd be awesome. Passive afflicting power with built in synergy options that your opponents can deal with.

Zacc,

If you do not fight, do not give your advice on balancing the game. Because, you will be wrong.

And don't make assumptions about what lusternia is *supposed* to be, or not *supposed* to be, because at a glance it looks like you are wrong. To take full advantage of herbs, you don't have to subject yourself to participation in combat, but you do have to risk participation.... Slightly differnt, but you assume neither.

thank you

You're just as bad as the other two. Shh. On topic.

never said I was better... and on topic? Give the Moonchilde aura a weaponaura so I can switch to stag Serenguard with Swiftstripes and reap the rewards of weaponaura

There is no choice in the matter.. there is no assumption. It's a 100% participation "at a glance".

Don't believe me? Watch deathsight for the next hour. I bet I die more than three times to Krellan and group while harvesting on Astral. Oh look.. he used Haiden this time! And you know what's absolutely hilarious about all of this, I don't fight back.. so it's clearly harassment now, seeing as how I haven't done anything in the slightest to provoke them. Whee.

<3 Lusternia's allowance of pointless, mindless PK. Woot! It's another Achaea. Joy.

That's one thread down. This is Angelfont.

ANGELFONT!

It's kind of funny how you mention the word trueheal and people come out of the wordwork to announce the end of the world.

For sacrament users it is indeed a get out of death free card given the 0 power cost. For others, it is a possible get out of death free card if they have the power during the fight. However, it was usable once and then had to be replenished at the font during which time you didn't get any of the other benefits of the aura.

So for sacraments users, it still cost 10 power to use trueheal, just not at the time of using it that one time. For everyone else it cost 20 power every time they wanted to use trueheal. Adds up if you don't use it sparingly. You can dismiss the power costs but you really shouldn't.

Is it a bit much? Yeah, probably. Is Lich for every Magnagoran a bit much? Yeah, probably. You can argue it's not all you want and say how much lich sucks but given how many sacrament users think trueheal sucks I don't really think we want to go that route. It is a given that when the crypt is up, more Magnagorans are willing to put themselves at risk. A group of geomancers raiding a village? Yeah, that's normal heh. And if lich sucked so much, why would the black crypt not only be built but then rebuilt after being torn down? Must not be all that bad.

Given the existence of the black crypt the question has to be: Given that Celest's primary enemy is this city, what can Celest have that is on par with a skill that prevents the whole of that city from experiencing no experience loss when they die?

Ablution and lustration are useless skills. Considering them in any sort of construct really isn't that helpful. Cherubs for all? Er, no thanks. To be honest, I'm not really confident that the playerbase can actually come up with anything all that useful for Celest given the general outcry about everything related to Celest being overpowered. Claiming the administration is biased and makes snap decisions? Honestly, you just shouldn't be posting.

We've been trying to come up with ideas for weeks now without much success but good luck!

For the record I'm perfectly okay with all these constructs going away and having nothing but small constructs with nice little benefits but nothing as potentially unbalancing as we've been seeing. It certainly inspires us to want to participate but I found the brainstorming sessions almost depressing. Some very cool ideas were shot down by players as not being strong enough in comparison to the crypt and they were right. I just wish there was some way to do this without the overpoweredness of it all.

Eep. Alright! Cherubs for all!

It's late.. I just found out what the Angelfont did.. I have only one thing to say:

Trueheal should die. Just curl up in a ball and die.

Thank you and good night.

I am just glad the admin realized how bad the Trueheal idea is, and how much of an outcry they saw from it. Thank god for that, but also we all know Lich isn't as powerful as TH in PvP, which is what you are trying to get at. But, I could agree to the constructs not giving either, and making them normal silly skills, much like raisedead. In constructs there needs to be balance, or people will find, that many will leave, or that the people with the most outrageous constructs will have them permanently destroyed by the whole of the basin. Which is worse than having a non insane construct.

I am glad it has fell into the more capable hands of the envoys working with the admins now, rather than celest. You will get neutral opinions from many in that group. Which is what was needed from the start.

Wow, just reading this thread has substantially lowered my opinion of the collective Lusternia playerbase. Of course, it was never very high to begin with...but now I actually feel dirty, and substantially less intelligent, for even being associable with the lot of you.

But anyways, I find it absurd that individuals whom I see have very little combat/skills knowledge are posting 'fixes' to the situation without knowing what they're actually saying. As well, players who have maybe just once in their entire lifetime faced an opponent who had truehealed are commenting about how ludicrous it is. Others who likely have never seen an opponent trueheal are doing the same.

Every non-Celestian on these boards loathes trueheal. However, -most- of their opinion on this matter is purely theoretical. They don't know what it's like and how viable a trueheal in the midst of combat really is. I can say with absolute certainty that ever since my return to Lusternia, maybe a month or two back, I have truehealed exactly 4 times, and 3 of those were all against the same person (two different characters of his). And even then, it was back when I was updating my curing to catch up on everything I missed while away. So, in 2 RL months, I've truehealed 4 times, three of which in the arena. The fourth time I truehealed while being chased around the catacombs and I still died. How many times do Magnagorans use lich?

The Crypt construct was grossly imbalancing to combat in an indirect manner, since it allowed the entirety of Magnagora to have virtually no risk involved as long as they were smart in their combat maneuvers. In a single raid instance, people like Xanon would die many times over, up to 5 times I think he said once, without losing a single jot of experience. Because of this, Celest was afforded an opportunity to offer ideas to balance the playing field. Note that this trueheal option was not the first, second, or even third thing we suggested. In fact, it was one of the last. However, every other idea we had was deemed unacceptable, and these other ideas were far less "OP" as these boards would think.

So we came up with the idea of a celest wide trueheal with the 0p cost for sac users, and it actually stuck. Yes, it has the potential to be very strong, even overpowered in combat. But many people simply saw two things - 0p and Trueheal. They 'forgot' that it costs 10p to put up the aura. They 'forgot' that you can only do it once mid-combat/raid. But, rather than step back, analyze the skill a bit, and perhaps even see it in actual use first, they plunged ahead with the universal cry of "ZOMG CELEST NEEEERRRRF".

Catarin and I agreed on this: it's not worth putting up a construct given the costs and the involvement necessary in defending the construct without it being overpowered to some degree. I sure as heck won't give a damn if a construct that boosts ablution/lustration is put into effect. Forget it, we'll just spend our time in the nexus world openings destroying yours.

Honestly, I don't understand the vehement anti-Celest trend out there. I noticed it before I left, and it was part of the reason I stopped playing, but to see it still is disheartening. Sure, we may deserve some of the anger due to our wars, but seriously. It's as if you people want to bathe in our blood by the gallons. Seeing how people view myself and my city makes me care less and less about treating the rest of you with any ounce of respect or IC honour.

But fine. Take the trueheal. We suggested a damage reduction aura that had passive effects on undead in the room. Shot down. We suggested a darkrebirth-like skill that, when you died on prime, instantly teleported your soul to Celestia where you would be raised anew. Shot down. We suggested a phoenix-like defender of Celestia. Shot down. We suggested possible 'pets' that functioned similarly to cherubs, or could boost the user with some passive affects. Shot down. We suggested that the heretic line allowed boosted damage/wounds. Shot down. We suggested a possible situational buff that would affect each of the guilds in Celest differently (Bards increased song time, warriors 25% damage is counted as fire damage, celestines can put up wrath on Celestia for 0p, aquamancers have reduced meld time/melding randomly melds an adjacent room) We suggested a million and one different ideas that, in the end, were either not acceptable to Estarra, or not acceptable to us in terms of utility.

Estarra was trying to figure out a construct that wouldn't be too overpowered, still be worth the cost of upkeep/defending, and not piss of the rest of the playerbase. It's a tough development that I don't think ever will be totally acceptable to all involved parties.

But be my guest. Try to think of something that will be even remotely acceptable to the Celest playerbase, the administration, and the rest of the playerbase. I think this idea would be fine if instead of the 0p, the power was simply reduced to 5p. But wait. It's still an improved trueheal! :censor:.

I'm sorry, but if you think the envoys are unbiased and truly neutral you are horribly, horribly mistaken. There are only a scant few envoys that I trust to be as impartial as possible when dealing with balance. Diamante comes to mind, but sadly he's not around as much anymore.

Oh, as a side note, whoever mentioned the upgrade to Dazzle? Christ. Dazzle is 100% worthless now against anyone with a correctly setup sixthsense defense. You -cannot- dazzle someone even when chasing equilibrium. The herb balance is simply too fast. That upgrade should not be construct related in any sense, it should simply be a fix that stems from envoy reports. But oh wait. We're screwed again there.

As individuals they could be quite biased but as a varied group they're likely to come to a fairly balanced middle-ground.

Not if they're influenced by the general anti-Celest trend, which a good number of them are. From my experience, both from being in the envoys and from the outside, way too much time and effort is spent on nerfing skills/abilities than is spent on fixing skillsets that desperately need it. Riding comes to mind. So does discernment (Weathersight for christ's sake). How about healing? Astrology?

I have nothing to say here that other people with more combat experience haven't stated already, but I think Nico deserves flaming.


I can assure you, Nico, that the feeling is thoroughly reciprocal.
Because you are both the only fighter in the game, and know the details of everyone else's combat experience. Okay.

Nobody gives a rat's arse about your crusade to make people lose experience when you kill them. Sorry.

I'm afraid I don't exactly put you in the "part of the solution" field, bud.


Translation: "I was nerfed once, so the envoys suck. Celest should be able to decide its own superpowers without external input."

I've had some people trueheal against me multiple times.

Your entire idea is predicated on the concept that experience is of some sort of value. For example, I lose 5% to pray. That's about 15 minutes of work. At level 83. Your conclusions as to the value of lich are flawed because they're based on an erroneous assumption (experience has worth).



I've heard a few of the ideas kicked around, and I rather liked Estarra's original, unique idea. The reason we were left with the abomination that is citywide trueheal/0p trueheal is because Estarra wants something that you people will actually use. The fact taht you're picky seems to have been one of the biggest obstacles

0p trueheal delves hundreds of miles beyond the realm fo "potential" to be overpowered.



10 power is utterly irrelevant. For example, I've burned through something like 500 power today, much of that purposefully consumed just so I can continue bashing. 10 power loses meaning when you look at the actual numbers we're dealing with.

Once is more than plenty. Furthermore, some changes are so glaringly overpowered that you don't need to "see" it to know that it's broken. What if we got a citywide 4 second instakill? Would you want that nerfed, or should we wait to "see it in action".



Precisely, the reason we're in this situation is because you folks refuse to participate unless it's overpowered. Reread this quote a few times and see if you can understand what the problem is.

It's this kind of silliness that has us exactly where we are. Celest is the only organisation to get any input on their construct. It's not about what's "acceptable to us", and I'm really disheartened to see that Estarra has broken her usually stubborn outlook to capitulate to the demands of Celest.



Yes, and I entirely hold her responsible for her decision to focus on making sure Celest will play ball instead of being stubborn and pissy and crying because it's "not acceptable to us in terms of utility".

Doublepost