QUOTE(Catarin @ Apr 4 2007, 06:21 PM) 395564
Except Celest has actually gotten to test out the angel aura and see exactly what it did and the rest is just pure speculation.
Honestly you're just ...spouting here. You don't seem to have a solid idea of how nexus battles work, what the Celest special construct even does, what Celest is willing to risk or not risk.
No one is making Magnagora build their crypt. If it is not that great, then don't build it. If you don't want it torn down, don't build it or figure out how to defend it better. Celest is not making you put it up over and over again and acting like it's somehow Celest's fault that you're using up all this power is asinine.
Honestly you're just ...spouting here. You don't seem to have a solid idea of how nexus battles work, what the Celest special construct even does, what Celest is willing to risk or not risk.
No one is making Magnagora build their crypt. If it is not that great, then don't build it. If you don't want it torn down, don't build it or figure out how to defend it better. Celest is not making you put it up over and over again and acting like it's somehow Celest's fault that you're using up all this power is asinine.
No, no one is making us, and did I say it was a horrible construct? No. I am saying that you should have to pay to play, and I am not talking about making the construct that fluxes water or celestia for free. If you have those, well then you should only be able to attack the things you have copies of. How are we supposed to retaliate an attack with nothing of value to destroy. Tit for tat baby, tit for tat.
QUOTE(Nico @ Apr 4 2007, 06:26 PM) 395568
For chrissakes Ildaudid, you have things completely wrong.
For one, it WAS built. Ayridion allowed us to build it temporarily for testing purposes without costs. It was removed as soon as we finished the testing. So we DO have concrete testing on it whereas the rest of the basin does not, and thus, while the rest of you may theorize away at how amazing it is, we already know its limitations.
Must be nice, I wonder what other org get test models of their constructs to see if they are acceptable to the org. Has Glomdoring been able to "test drive" the egg? Doubt it.
Secondly, we DO have a construct, just not that one.
Yeah, like I said above, tit for tat, attack our earth/nil/collosi but some how you just go for the version you won't build yourself.
Thirdly, you have the mechanics of the prayers wrong even when we have been stating time and time again that it's not how you think it is. Yes, it runs on a separate balance, but that doesn't negate the fact that it still requires equilibrium and balance to use. As well, the separate balance limits these abilities to once every 6 seconds, so instead of what you claim is a 2 second shield, it's more like a 6 second shield because you cannot pray for shield again as soon as you regain normal equilibrium. This removes the whore-ability of these prayers. The only way to whore shield like this is to prayer shield, then normal shield, then normal shield, then pray shield. This ability is only marginally better than just shield whoring. The healing ability is in NO WAY like an extra healing scroll.
I say once again, this was how is was explained, 2 sec inital eq loss per prayer. You cannot do another prayer for 6 seconds after you make the first prayer? If it has been lessened or changed, would be nice to actually have it updated. Since that is what the announce or thread stated by Estarra.
Fourthly, the reason why crow users would use the egg? 2 xp-loss free resurrections before vitae hits.
Free xp loss rezzes if they die in an area where they have buried an egg or brought it with them? Also no eq/bal on death. So why would they use that instead of their Dark Rebirth which works on all of prime? Wanna know why? Because Dark Rebirth is much better than this egg.
And why would night users want to come back off eq/balance without a suspect? Well, just exactly what did you lose in that first death??? No experience loss is great, and you can still try to escape without having to vitae. Don't get me wrong, it's not a replacement for vitae, it's an added layer of protection that, with preparation, you can choose where to rebirth at.
Honestly if you cannot kill a person who just comes back from lich, you need work. They are at their weakest, sitting in your midsts. Now with this egg, the egg users do not even get the benefit of being able to try to move away, unless this egg rolls, but how far in all honesty can an egg roll away from a group of people?
Lastly, concerning how you say the Crypt isn't overpowered.
(Disciples of Klangratch) Xanon says, "I love lich."
(Disciples of Klangratch) Xanon says, "I abuse it."
Umm we are talking about Xanon right? One person, who uses lich like that because you may not have competent Sacraments users around. If a Celestine cannot be found to strip lich by the time Xanon liches 5 times in a row, I call that a lack of coordination and skill on the part of your org.
Oh wait, one more thing. Enough
about Forren being a noob with an overpowered boomstick. He was a very good combatant long before he ever reached titan/demi. He is a smart fighter who realizes that telekinesis doesn't offer him nearly what it used to. Therefore, he uses his other abilities that are now much stronger. It's called adapting to change.
Forren used to actually use skills, he has now slowly proven that the race Imperial Merian with the combination of demi/avatar does not require skill to kill anyone, it requires the casting of phantoms, and point a staff or hailstorming. Yes he is a smart fighter who realizes that demesnes are not needed for a mage to hit extremely hard with damage, they are helpful but definately not needed. He basically proves how imbalanced mages are to druids on a daily basis. You can call it adapting to change, but since he was on the forefront of the nerf warriors and their prenerf weapons because they hit him too hard. Well he should expect that when he can kill 90% of the playerbase within 4 hits that something may be a little OP about the combination of race/archetype/champ. But from what I can understand by what yer saying is that is it fine, and that all aquamancers should only get up to phantoms in illusions, staff and hailstorm in aquamancy, and that is all they need to kill 90% of the playerbase? Yeah adapting to change, heh my arse. Even Ixion would raid Water solo and not call for backup when people came, but he calls you in to prone for him and Malicia in to web for him so all he has to do is damage kill anything that comes into the room. Yeah sounds like a real fun battle. If you are a metagamer and you don't enjoy a good fight keep playing that way, if you enjoy raids and actual fights, you would evolve not adapt to such simpleton attacks.
EDIT: I do want to clarify on yet another thing. I am not trying to say that Glomdoring's construct is justly powerful, etc. I just thought it's a neat idea that, to me, sounds promising. I stated earlier that I do not have firsthand knowledge of the construct and it's abilities, and thus cannot speak with any certainty on it. I am by no means an expert on the Glom construct. If they don't like it, they don't have to build it, and I could really care less. However, when you, Ildaudid, bitch that Celest isn't building their construct because it's so obviously good for them when you have 0 first hand knowledge on it....That's just absurd.
Pardon me, when I see the only construct Celest comes to attack ever is a crypt that has no equivalent in Celest, it becomes a tad irritating, especially when all they do is sit in pentagrams or web so Forren can just hailstorm everyone. It becomes something that is irritating, and not fun. I guess you consider it a fun time, I for one enjoy raids, etc that I know we are going to lose, just because it was fun doing them. I don't enjoy being instantly obliterated over and over with 2 hailstorms while being permawebbed and hit in the legs over and over. I call that boring and metagaming just to win. Try to enjoy a fight, win or lose sometime and you may get more out of Lusternia.
For one, it WAS built. Ayridion allowed us to build it temporarily for testing purposes without costs. It was removed as soon as we finished the testing. So we DO have concrete testing on it whereas the rest of the basin does not, and thus, while the rest of you may theorize away at how amazing it is, we already know its limitations.
Must be nice, I wonder what other org get test models of their constructs to see if they are acceptable to the org. Has Glomdoring been able to "test drive" the egg? Doubt it.
Secondly, we DO have a construct, just not that one.
Yeah, like I said above, tit for tat, attack our earth/nil/collosi but some how you just go for the version you won't build yourself.
Thirdly, you have the mechanics of the prayers wrong even when we have been stating time and time again that it's not how you think it is. Yes, it runs on a separate balance, but that doesn't negate the fact that it still requires equilibrium and balance to use. As well, the separate balance limits these abilities to once every 6 seconds, so instead of what you claim is a 2 second shield, it's more like a 6 second shield because you cannot pray for shield again as soon as you regain normal equilibrium. This removes the whore-ability of these prayers. The only way to whore shield like this is to prayer shield, then normal shield, then normal shield, then pray shield. This ability is only marginally better than just shield whoring. The healing ability is in NO WAY like an extra healing scroll.
I say once again, this was how is was explained, 2 sec inital eq loss per prayer. You cannot do another prayer for 6 seconds after you make the first prayer? If it has been lessened or changed, would be nice to actually have it updated. Since that is what the announce or thread stated by Estarra.
Fourthly, the reason why crow users would use the egg? 2 xp-loss free resurrections before vitae hits.
Free xp loss rezzes if they die in an area where they have buried an egg or brought it with them? Also no eq/bal on death. So why would they use that instead of their Dark Rebirth which works on all of prime? Wanna know why? Because Dark Rebirth is much better than this egg.
And why would night users want to come back off eq/balance without a suspect? Well, just exactly what did you lose in that first death??? No experience loss is great, and you can still try to escape without having to vitae. Don't get me wrong, it's not a replacement for vitae, it's an added layer of protection that, with preparation, you can choose where to rebirth at.
Honestly if you cannot kill a person who just comes back from lich, you need work. They are at their weakest, sitting in your midsts. Now with this egg, the egg users do not even get the benefit of being able to try to move away, unless this egg rolls, but how far in all honesty can an egg roll away from a group of people?
Lastly, concerning how you say the Crypt isn't overpowered.
(Disciples of Klangratch) Xanon says, "I love lich."
(Disciples of Klangratch) Xanon says, "I abuse it."
Umm we are talking about Xanon right? One person, who uses lich like that because you may not have competent Sacraments users around. If a Celestine cannot be found to strip lich by the time Xanon liches 5 times in a row, I call that a lack of coordination and skill on the part of your org.
Oh wait, one more thing. Enough
about Forren being a noob with an overpowered boomstick. He was a very good combatant long before he ever reached titan/demi. He is a smart fighter who realizes that telekinesis doesn't offer him nearly what it used to. Therefore, he uses his other abilities that are now much stronger. It's called adapting to change.Forren used to actually use skills, he has now slowly proven that the race Imperial Merian with the combination of demi/avatar does not require skill to kill anyone, it requires the casting of phantoms, and point a staff or hailstorming. Yes he is a smart fighter who realizes that demesnes are not needed for a mage to hit extremely hard with damage, they are helpful but definately not needed. He basically proves how imbalanced mages are to druids on a daily basis. You can call it adapting to change, but since he was on the forefront of the nerf warriors and their prenerf weapons because they hit him too hard. Well he should expect that when he can kill 90% of the playerbase within 4 hits that something may be a little OP about the combination of race/archetype/champ. But from what I can understand by what yer saying is that is it fine, and that all aquamancers should only get up to phantoms in illusions, staff and hailstorm in aquamancy, and that is all they need to kill 90% of the playerbase? Yeah adapting to change, heh my arse. Even Ixion would raid Water solo and not call for backup when people came, but he calls you in to prone for him and Malicia in to web for him so all he has to do is damage kill anything that comes into the room. Yeah sounds like a real fun battle. If you are a metagamer and you don't enjoy a good fight keep playing that way, if you enjoy raids and actual fights, you would evolve not adapt to such simpleton attacks.
EDIT: I do want to clarify on yet another thing. I am not trying to say that Glomdoring's construct is justly powerful, etc. I just thought it's a neat idea that, to me, sounds promising. I stated earlier that I do not have firsthand knowledge of the construct and it's abilities, and thus cannot speak with any certainty on it. I am by no means an expert on the Glom construct. If they don't like it, they don't have to build it, and I could really care less. However, when you, Ildaudid, bitch that Celest isn't building their construct because it's so obviously good for them when you have 0 first hand knowledge on it....That's just absurd.
Pardon me, when I see the only construct Celest comes to attack ever is a crypt that has no equivalent in Celest, it becomes a tad irritating, especially when all they do is sit in pentagrams or web so Forren can just hailstorm everyone. It becomes something that is irritating, and not fun. I guess you consider it a fun time, I for one enjoy raids, etc that I know we are going to lose, just because it was fun doing them. I don't enjoy being instantly obliterated over and over with 2 hailstorms while being permawebbed and hit in the legs over and over. I call that boring and metagaming just to win. Try to enjoy a fight, win or lose sometime and you may get more out of Lusternia.
At most others: Mreow
At Krellan: Pfh, you just want Titan to be able to grief better, so just let Sham want his ability to not have to pray while raiding.
At Krellan: Pfh, you just want Titan to be able to grief better, so just let Sham want his ability to not have to pray while raiding.
Ok, I did not want to pull out all the stops but the level of idiocy in your replies is really getting to me.
Must be nice, I wonder what other org get test models of their constructs to see if they are acceptable to the org. Has Glomdoring been able to "test drive" the egg? Doubt it.First off, the only reason we 'test drove' the construct is because the skills, as explained by the announce, the construct description, and Estarra's post were vague and hard to understand exactly what these prayers meant, hence why so many people have misinterpreted what they really are. It was important to test because the construct, as you know, costs a buttload.
Yeah, like I said above, tit for tat, attack our earth/nil/collosi but some how you just go for the version you won't build yourself.
Oh, so first it was "You can only attack our constructs if you have your own". Now it's "You can only attack constructs that you have an equal variant of your own". I'm sorry, but what -ing world do you live in?? Obviously not one where people are allowed to have views differing from yours.
I say once again, this was how is was explained, 2 sec inital eq loss per prayer. You cannot do another prayer for 6 seconds after you make the first prayer? If it has been lessened or changed, would be nice to actually have it updated. Since that is what the announce or thread stated by Estarra.As well, you heard me explain what our data results were from DIRECT TESTING of the construct and it's abilities. The ONLY thing you are basing your assumptions off of is Estarra's post/announce, which wasn't very clear in how it worked, and shouldn't have been anyways. How are your opinions more qualified than our own? You have no idea what you're talking about!!
Free xp loss rezzes if they die in an area where they have buried an egg or brought it with them? Also no eq/bal on death. So why would they use that instead of their Dark Rebirth which works on all of prime? Wanna know why? Because Dark Rebirth is much better than this egg.
From what I understand, they stack. So, first death, resurrect from egg in local area. Second death, dark rebirth. If the egg is not in the local area, it simply goes straight to dark rebirth. Glom, correct me if I'm wrong.
Honestly if you cannot kill a person who just comes back from lich, you need work. They are at their weakest, sitting in your midsts. Now with this egg, the egg users do not even get the benefit of being able to try to move away, unless this egg rolls, but how far in all honesty can an egg roll away from a group of people?Yeah but guess what? Liches can run away while in soul form! The blindness is a bug that hopefully will be fixed, so using a bug as an excuse as to why the skill sucks is poor form. Also, even a lich reforming in the middle of a group is not sure death. It's dangerous, yes, but it's not an automatic death.
Lastly, the egg has the added option of being able to specify where you come back from. You could respawn on the entire opposite side of the local area if you wanted to.
Umm we are talking about Xanon right? One person, who uses lich like that because you may not have competent Sacraments users around. If a Celestine cannot be found to strip lich by the time Xanon liches 5 times in a row, I call that a lack of coordination and skill on the part of your org.
Oh right. Cause once again, Inquisition should be used unilaterally against every person we fight and they're not allowed to run when we try it! And we're the ones lacking skill and coordination? Oh, that's interesting! I don't think many people agree that Celest is incompetent in terms of fighting.
Forren used to actually use skills, he has now slowly proven that the race Imperial Merian with the combination of demi/avatar does not require skill to kill anyone, it requires the casting of phantoms, and point a staff or hailstorming. Yes he is a smart fighter who realizes that demesnes are not needed for a mage to hit extremely hard with damage, they are helpful but definately not needed. He basically proves how imbalanced mages are to druids on a daily basis. You can call it adapting to change, but since he was on the forefront of the nerf warriors and their prenerf weapons because they hit him too hard. Well he should expect that when he can kill 90% of the playerbase within 4 hits that something may be a little OP about the combination of race/archetype/champ. But from what I can understand by what yer saying is that is it fine, and that all aquamancers should only get up to phantoms in illusions, staff and hailstorm in aquamancy, and that is all they need to kill 90% of the playerbase? Yeah adapting to change, heh my arse. Even Ixion would raid Water solo and not call for backup when people came, but he calls you in to prone for him and Malicia in to web for him so all he has to do is damage kill anything that comes into the room. Yeah sounds like a real fun battle. If you are a metagamer and you don't enjoy a good fight keep playing that way, if you enjoy raids and actual fights, you would evolve not adapt to such simpleton attacks.Yes. Forren's race/class/demi/champ combo is overpowered. Just like it was with Ixion a while ago. Interesting how suddenly you're screaming for nerfs now, and never then.
Also: You are so right! When fighting with Forren at my side, all I EVER do is web and knockdown!! That's it!! And Malicia just webs! OMG how silly of me to forget! I mean, zomg, the entire group, our only job is to make sure Forren gets kills! Cause that's the way awesome combat teams work, right?!? Forget that Talkan and Triden, or Talkan and Neraka, try to work together for absolve kills! Forget that I'm working to drop mages real quick so our demense stays active, or theirs dies. Or that I try to soft lock with windpipe against tough targets to help damage them out faster. Or that the rest of the group tries to shift their attention to main targets called by Malicia. I use knockdowns cause it stuns and helps keep my target from running, and I can bypass parry to hit head. What, I'm not allowed to fight like any competent BC now?
Get a clue.
Pardon me, when I see the only construct Celest comes to attack ever is a crypt that has no equivalent in Celest, it becomes a tad irritating, especially when all they do is sit in pentagrams or web so Forren can just hailstorm everyone. It becomes something that is irritating, and not fun. I guess you consider it a fun time, I for one enjoy raids, etc that I know we are going to lose, just because it was fun doing them. I don't enjoy being instantly obliterated over and over with 2 hailstorms while being permawebbed and hit in the legs over and over. I call that boring and metagaming just to win. Try to enjoy a fight, win or lose sometime and you may get more out of Lusternia.
I do enjoy fights. Why else would I spend 20 minutes running around the Catacombs, being chased by, on two separate occasions, Daevos and Morik, and then Ethelon and Aiakon, trying to kill them all by myself? The first time, I killed Morik before leaving. The second time, I died when I ran out of cleanse enchants. Both times were a lot of fun.
To me it just sounds that you're bitter now that the tides have turned. Before, Celest used to have to fight against 3 titans at once when we had none. We got obliterated. Swings of power happen in lusternia, and now you're getting beat on. Tough it out.
QUOTE
Must be nice, I wonder what other org get test models of their constructs to see if they are acceptable to the org. Has Glomdoring been able to "test drive" the egg? Doubt it.
QUOTE
Yeah, like I said above, tit for tat, attack our earth/nil/collosi but some how you just go for the version you won't build yourself.
Oh, so first it was "You can only attack our constructs if you have your own". Now it's "You can only attack constructs that you have an equal variant of your own". I'm sorry, but what
-ing world do you live in?? Obviously not one where people are allowed to have views differing from yours.QUOTE
I say once again, this was how is was explained, 2 sec inital eq loss per prayer. You cannot do another prayer for 6 seconds after you make the first prayer? If it has been lessened or changed, would be nice to actually have it updated. Since that is what the announce or thread stated by Estarra.
QUOTE
Free xp loss rezzes if they die in an area where they have buried an egg or brought it with them? Also no eq/bal on death. So why would they use that instead of their Dark Rebirth which works on all of prime? Wanna know why? Because Dark Rebirth is much better than this egg.
From what I understand, they stack. So, first death, resurrect from egg in local area. Second death, dark rebirth. If the egg is not in the local area, it simply goes straight to dark rebirth. Glom, correct me if I'm wrong.
QUOTE
Honestly if you cannot kill a person who just comes back from lich, you need work. They are at their weakest, sitting in your midsts. Now with this egg, the egg users do not even get the benefit of being able to try to move away, unless this egg rolls, but how far in all honesty can an egg roll away from a group of people?
Lastly, the egg has the added option of being able to specify where you come back from. You could respawn on the entire opposite side of the local area if you wanted to.
QUOTE
Umm we are talking about Xanon right? One person, who uses lich like that because you may not have competent Sacraments users around. If a Celestine cannot be found to strip lich by the time Xanon liches 5 times in a row, I call that a lack of coordination and skill on the part of your org.
Oh right. Cause once again, Inquisition should be used unilaterally against every person we fight and they're not allowed to run when we try it! And we're the ones lacking skill and coordination? Oh, that's interesting! I don't think many people agree that Celest is incompetent in terms of fighting.
QUOTE
Forren used to actually use skills, he has now slowly proven that the race Imperial Merian with the combination of demi/avatar does not require skill to kill anyone, it requires the casting of phantoms, and point a staff or hailstorming. Yes he is a smart fighter who realizes that demesnes are not needed for a mage to hit extremely hard with damage, they are helpful but definately not needed. He basically proves how imbalanced mages are to druids on a daily basis. You can call it adapting to change, but since he was on the forefront of the nerf warriors and their prenerf weapons because they hit him too hard. Well he should expect that when he can kill 90% of the playerbase within 4 hits that something may be a little OP about the combination of race/archetype/champ. But from what I can understand by what yer saying is that is it fine, and that all aquamancers should only get up to phantoms in illusions, staff and hailstorm in aquamancy, and that is all they need to kill 90% of the playerbase? Yeah adapting to change, heh my arse. Even Ixion would raid Water solo and not call for backup when people came, but he calls you in to prone for him and Malicia in to web for him so all he has to do is damage kill anything that comes into the room. Yeah sounds like a real fun battle. If you are a metagamer and you don't enjoy a good fight keep playing that way, if you enjoy raids and actual fights, you would evolve not adapt to such simpleton attacks.
Also: You are so right! When fighting with Forren at my side, all I EVER do is web and knockdown!! That's it!! And Malicia just webs! OMG how silly of me to forget! I mean, zomg, the entire group, our only job is to make sure Forren gets kills! Cause that's the way awesome combat teams work, right?!? Forget that Talkan and Triden, or Talkan and Neraka, try to work together for absolve kills! Forget that I'm working to drop mages real quick so our demense stays active, or theirs dies. Or that I try to soft lock with windpipe against tough targets to help damage them out faster. Or that the rest of the group tries to shift their attention to main targets called by Malicia. I use knockdowns cause it stuns and helps keep my target from running, and I can bypass parry to hit head. What, I'm not allowed to fight like any competent BC now?
Get a clue.
QUOTE
Pardon me, when I see the only construct Celest comes to attack ever is a crypt that has no equivalent in Celest, it becomes a tad irritating, especially when all they do is sit in pentagrams or web so Forren can just hailstorm everyone. It becomes something that is irritating, and not fun. I guess you consider it a fun time, I for one enjoy raids, etc that I know we are going to lose, just because it was fun doing them. I don't enjoy being instantly obliterated over and over with 2 hailstorms while being permawebbed and hit in the legs over and over. I call that boring and metagaming just to win. Try to enjoy a fight, win or lose sometime and you may get more out of Lusternia.
I do enjoy fights. Why else would I spend 20 minutes running around the Catacombs, being chased by, on two separate occasions, Daevos and Morik, and then Ethelon and Aiakon, trying to kill them all by myself? The first time, I killed Morik before leaving. The second time, I died when I ran out of cleanse enchants. Both times were a lot of fun.
To me it just sounds that you're bitter now that the tides have turned. Before, Celest used to have to fight against 3 titans at once when we had none. We got obliterated. Swings of power happen in lusternia, and now you're getting beat on. Tough it out.
QUOTE(Nico @ Apr 4 2007, 08:26 PM) 395614
Ok, I did not want to pull out all the stops but the level of idiocy in your replies is really getting to me.
Lets see what all the stops could be, shall we? Remember I don't hate you in the slightest, I think you have more skill than you actually use. And am sad to see you try to take the easy route.
First off, the only reason we 'test drove' the construct is because the skills, as explained by the announce, the construct description, and Estarra's post were vague and hard to understand exactly what these prayers meant, hence why so many people have misinterpreted what they really are. It was important to test because the construct, as you know, costs a buttload.
Yes, like I said it must be nice to get a free "test drive". People may not understand how shitty the Glom construct is, but are they getting a free "test drive" to see if they would like to purchase it? No. Why? Hell if I know?
Oh, so first it was "You can only attack our constructs if you have your own". Now it's "You can only attack constructs that you have an equal variant of your own". I'm sorry, but what -ing world do you live in?? Obviously not one where people are allowed to have views differing from yours.
No, I have always agreed with Vis on this, I don't think you should be allowed to play in a tournie that you don't have something that matters up on the table to gamble with. Sorry, that I think that. But put it this way. Say you had your all powerful TH construct that you would have built. And we decided not to build the crypt, yet came every time to destroy your TH construct. All you could do was destroy our earth table or nil fountain thing? Would you find that a comparable kill to you losing this TH construct every other time that there is a nexus battle? Step back and think about it before you answer.
As well, you heard me explain what our data results were from DIRECT TESTING of the construct and it's abilities. The ONLY thing you are basing your assumptions off of is Estarra's post/announce, which wasn't very clear in how it worked, and shouldn't have been anyways. How are your opinions more qualified than our own? You have no idea what you're talking about!!
From what I understand, they stack. So, first death, resurrect from egg in local area. Second death, dark rebirth. If the egg is not in the local area, it simply goes straight to dark rebirth. Glom, correct me if I'm wrong.
Seeing how Estarra helped create the construct, I would have to assume she knew what she was talking about. Sorry, I guess I have more faith in her than you did.
Yeah but guess what? Liches can run away while in soul form! The blindness is a bug that hopefully will be fixed, so using a bug as an excuse as to why the skill sucks is poor form. Also, even a lich reforming in the middle of a group is not sure death. It's dangerous, yes, but it's not an automatic death.
Oh yeah, a bug that you all still abuse? Ok, so should we be issuing you for using niricol on liches now? (an honestly it would be too much to ask for that, but I remember when bards had pit problems and was asked not to use pits on bards. Which basically meant I could not enemy any bards since I can't guarantee they wouldn't hit the pits. But, did I unenemy all the bards I had enemied, yea actually I did... because the last thing I want to hear is all I do is abuse bugs) And yes they can run away in soul form, which is a hell of a lot better than the Glom egg, but I have no clue what you are smoking when you see a lich reform in front of your group with no eq/bal, no power and no defs up. I am sure you don't give them a button and usher them to the nearest exit.
Lastly, the egg has the added option of being able to specify where you come back from. You could respawn on the entire opposite side of the local area if you wanted to.
If you happen to bury it at the complete opposite side of the local area where you die. You could also have wasted 10p for nothing and not be in the area you buryed it. Nico you are not going to make me see that the Glom construct is a good as you think it is. I mean you aren't doing a good job of even convincing Xenthos and other Glomdorings of that. So I think you arguing for it is kind of moot. Besides why do you care so much about it? I think it sucks, you think it is fine. Either way, we don't make the decision to raise it or not, so our opinions on it don't matter to Glomdoring
Oh right. Cause once again, Inquisition should be used unilaterally against every person we fight and they're not allowed to run when we try it! And we're the ones lacking skill and coordination? Oh, that's interesting! I don't think many people agree that Celest is incompetent in terms of fighting.
No, but if they let Xanon get away with lich 5 times, there are some problems of competency in the crew that has been trying to stop him. Think about it, don't you think by the 3rd time that someone would have been able to stop that?
Yes. Forren's race/class/demi/champ combo is overpowered. Just like it was with Ixion a while ago. Interesting how suddenly you're screaming for nerfs now, and never then.
Ixion's swords were OP, but nothing anywhere near the damage that Forren can accomplish with one staff point nor anywhere near a hailstorm. Ixion could hit me for maybe 1500 total in 2 swings if that. Forren does far worse than that and remember he is not a warrior he will NEVER miss. When I see that at least 50% of the player base can be destroyed in 2 staffs or hailstorms by him, yes I would say it is too much. If you ever saw a geomancer do that much damage (which you probably never will) you would say the same thing. Hell if Forren was a Geomancer I would say the same thing, if he was a BlackTalon I would say the same thing (but hehe BT's and the HS's cant even hit for 500 damage per attack, so that is moot too). Sorry but when I see a mage who is the city equiv to a druid, that can do what no commune druid could ever dream of doing (fight and win without using a demesne) I kind of find that a bit biased towards the cities in general, and I think that is. I think druids should be just as feasable to kill outside of a demesne as a mage is. Or that mages need to be toned down as much as poor druids are. Sorry bub, its not always about Celest. Reiha and I actually argue about this alot, because I vote to nerf mages across the board.
Also: You are so right! When fighting with Forren at my side, all I EVER do is web and knockdown!! That's it!! And Malicia just webs! OMG how silly of me to forget! I mean, zomg, the entire group, our only job is to make sure Forren gets kills! Cause that's the way awesome combat teams work, right?!? Forget that Talkan and Triden, or Talkan and Neraka, try to work together for absolve kills! Forget that I'm working to drop mages real quick so our demense stays active, or theirs dies. Or that I try to soft lock with windpipe against tough targets to help damage them out faster. Or that the rest of the group tries to shift their attention to main targets called by Malicia. I use knockdowns cause it stuns and helps keep my target from running, and I can bypass parry to hit head. What, I'm not allowed to fight like any competent BC now?
Yes I know, all you do is whore web/hit legs for prone. Which is what I told everyone that fights Forren to do now, as to keep him from trying to run away and stop his damn damage. Wanna know whats interesting though, when we whore web on him, guess what happens? Ummm Divine Fire and logoff, then around the time DF can be used again guess who appears. OH MY WHO COULD IT BE?? Forren. Yay! (No offense Forren, it could just be you happened to have to leave at those times, but it is just what I saw. Not going to call you and ask "Hey, why did you log?")
I know that Talkan and Neraka have there timing down almost to perfection for their kills (which is why I dont understand how the hell anyone could not strip Xanon's lich??) And your demense? Hell you don't need one, you have Forren. Also, explain this, why do you all suddenly quit raiding when he leaves? Have no spine do you? Getting too used to just proning or webbing people that you don't have to earn your kills anymore? Why does Forren call for help when he is at Earth Lords, when he is much stronger than Ixion ever was? Does he actually need you all to help him now? And if so, is it because he is "adapting" as you say?
I do enjoy fights. Why else would I spend 20 minutes running around the Catacombs, being chased by, on two separate occasions, Daevos and Morik, and then Ethelon and Aiakon, trying to kill them all by myself? The first time, I killed Morik before leaving. The second time, I died when I ran out of cleanse enchants. Both times were a lot of fun.
Nico, I have respect for that. You and I normally have a great time in the Catacombs when it is one on one, or 2 on 2. So why are you sitting and joining up with Team Whore? When you know that the victory is not anywhere near as enjoyable as the thrill of one on one? Do you remember on Earth? You were almost out of power and Malicia was almost out of health, that is when the fight becomes thrilling, not when you all join together use enchants and have Forren make the kills for you.
To me it just sounds that you're bitter now that the tides have turned. Before, Celest used to have to fight against 3 titans at once when we had none. We got obliterated. Swings of power happen in lusternia, and now you're getting beat on. Tough it out.
I could care less about the power shift. I don't mind being the underdog again. It's not about who is on the losing side. Remember I am not Turgeis. Its about playing a game that is fun, not utterly miserable, knowing that when you go to defend or go to raid, that all that is going to happen is that you are going to be webbed while Hailstormed to death, well what type of fight is that? It isn't interesting? It is repetitive. It would be like using smite down and pulp head and only trying for bash brains in every fight. Wouldn't that bore the hell out of you?
Lets see what all the stops could be, shall we? Remember I don't hate you in the slightest, I think you have more skill than you actually use. And am sad to see you try to take the easy route.
First off, the only reason we 'test drove' the construct is because the skills, as explained by the announce, the construct description, and Estarra's post were vague and hard to understand exactly what these prayers meant, hence why so many people have misinterpreted what they really are. It was important to test because the construct, as you know, costs a buttload.
Yes, like I said it must be nice to get a free "test drive". People may not understand how shitty the Glom construct is, but are they getting a free "test drive" to see if they would like to purchase it? No. Why? Hell if I know?
Oh, so first it was "You can only attack our constructs if you have your own". Now it's "You can only attack constructs that you have an equal variant of your own". I'm sorry, but what
-ing world do you live in?? Obviously not one where people are allowed to have views differing from yours.No, I have always agreed with Vis on this, I don't think you should be allowed to play in a tournie that you don't have something that matters up on the table to gamble with. Sorry, that I think that. But put it this way. Say you had your all powerful TH construct that you would have built. And we decided not to build the crypt, yet came every time to destroy your TH construct. All you could do was destroy our earth table or nil fountain thing? Would you find that a comparable kill to you losing this TH construct every other time that there is a nexus battle? Step back and think about it before you answer.
As well, you heard me explain what our data results were from DIRECT TESTING of the construct and it's abilities. The ONLY thing you are basing your assumptions off of is Estarra's post/announce, which wasn't very clear in how it worked, and shouldn't have been anyways. How are your opinions more qualified than our own? You have no idea what you're talking about!!
From what I understand, they stack. So, first death, resurrect from egg in local area. Second death, dark rebirth. If the egg is not in the local area, it simply goes straight to dark rebirth. Glom, correct me if I'm wrong.
Seeing how Estarra helped create the construct, I would have to assume she knew what she was talking about. Sorry, I guess I have more faith in her than you did.
Yeah but guess what? Liches can run away while in soul form! The blindness is a bug that hopefully will be fixed, so using a bug as an excuse as to why the skill sucks is poor form. Also, even a lich reforming in the middle of a group is not sure death. It's dangerous, yes, but it's not an automatic death.
Oh yeah, a bug that you all still abuse? Ok, so should we be issuing you for using niricol on liches now? (an honestly it would be too much to ask for that, but I remember when bards had pit problems and was asked not to use pits on bards. Which basically meant I could not enemy any bards since I can't guarantee they wouldn't hit the pits. But, did I unenemy all the bards I had enemied, yea actually I did... because the last thing I want to hear is all I do is abuse bugs) And yes they can run away in soul form, which is a hell of a lot better than the Glom egg, but I have no clue what you are smoking when you see a lich reform in front of your group with no eq/bal, no power and no defs up. I am sure you don't give them a button and usher them to the nearest exit.
Lastly, the egg has the added option of being able to specify where you come back from. You could respawn on the entire opposite side of the local area if you wanted to.
If you happen to bury it at the complete opposite side of the local area where you die. You could also have wasted 10p for nothing and not be in the area you buryed it. Nico you are not going to make me see that the Glom construct is a good as you think it is. I mean you aren't doing a good job of even convincing Xenthos and other Glomdorings of that. So I think you arguing for it is kind of moot. Besides why do you care so much about it? I think it sucks, you think it is fine. Either way, we don't make the decision to raise it or not, so our opinions on it don't matter to Glomdoring
Oh right. Cause once again, Inquisition should be used unilaterally against every person we fight and they're not allowed to run when we try it! And we're the ones lacking skill and coordination? Oh, that's interesting! I don't think many people agree that Celest is incompetent in terms of fighting.
No, but if they let Xanon get away with lich 5 times, there are some problems of competency in the crew that has been trying to stop him. Think about it, don't you think by the 3rd time that someone would have been able to stop that?
Yes. Forren's race/class/demi/champ combo is overpowered. Just like it was with Ixion a while ago. Interesting how suddenly you're screaming for nerfs now, and never then.
Ixion's swords were OP, but nothing anywhere near the damage that Forren can accomplish with one staff point nor anywhere near a hailstorm. Ixion could hit me for maybe 1500 total in 2 swings if that. Forren does far worse than that and remember he is not a warrior he will NEVER miss. When I see that at least 50% of the player base can be destroyed in 2 staffs or hailstorms by him, yes I would say it is too much. If you ever saw a geomancer do that much damage (which you probably never will) you would say the same thing. Hell if Forren was a Geomancer I would say the same thing, if he was a BlackTalon I would say the same thing (but hehe BT's and the HS's cant even hit for 500 damage per attack, so that is moot too). Sorry but when I see a mage who is the city equiv to a druid, that can do what no commune druid could ever dream of doing (fight and win without using a demesne) I kind of find that a bit biased towards the cities in general, and I think that is
. I think druids should be just as feasable to kill outside of a demesne as a mage is. Or that mages need to be toned down as much as poor druids are. Sorry bub, its not always about Celest. Reiha and I actually argue about this alot, because I vote to nerf mages across the board. Also: You are so right! When fighting with Forren at my side, all I EVER do is web and knockdown!! That's it!! And Malicia just webs! OMG how silly of me to forget! I mean, zomg, the entire group, our only job is to make sure Forren gets kills! Cause that's the way awesome combat teams work, right?!? Forget that Talkan and Triden, or Talkan and Neraka, try to work together for absolve kills! Forget that I'm working to drop mages real quick so our demense stays active, or theirs dies. Or that I try to soft lock with windpipe against tough targets to help damage them out faster. Or that the rest of the group tries to shift their attention to main targets called by Malicia. I use knockdowns cause it stuns and helps keep my target from running, and I can bypass parry to hit head. What, I'm not allowed to fight like any competent BC now?
Yes I know, all you do is whore web/hit legs for prone. Which is what I told everyone that fights Forren to do now, as to keep him from trying to run away and stop his damn damage. Wanna know whats interesting though, when we whore web on him, guess what happens? Ummm Divine Fire and logoff, then around the time DF can be used again guess who appears. OH MY WHO COULD IT BE?? Forren. Yay! (No offense Forren, it could just be you happened to have to leave at those times, but it is just what I saw. Not going to call you and ask "Hey, why did you log?")
I know that Talkan and Neraka have there timing down almost to perfection for their kills (which is why I dont understand how the hell anyone could not strip Xanon's lich??) And your demense? Hell you don't need one, you have Forren. Also, explain this, why do you all suddenly quit raiding when he leaves? Have no spine do you? Getting too used to just proning or webbing people that you don't have to earn your kills anymore? Why does Forren call for help when he is at Earth Lords, when he is much stronger than Ixion ever was? Does he actually need you all to help him now? And if so, is it because he is "adapting" as you say?
I do enjoy fights. Why else would I spend 20 minutes running around the Catacombs, being chased by, on two separate occasions, Daevos and Morik, and then Ethelon and Aiakon, trying to kill them all by myself? The first time, I killed Morik before leaving. The second time, I died when I ran out of cleanse enchants. Both times were a lot of fun.
Nico, I have respect for that. You and I normally have a great time in the Catacombs when it is one on one, or 2 on 2. So why are you sitting and joining up with Team Whore? When you know that the victory is not anywhere near as enjoyable as the thrill of one on one? Do you remember on Earth? You were almost out of power and Malicia was almost out of health, that is when the fight becomes thrilling, not when you all join together use enchants and have Forren make the kills for you.
To me it just sounds that you're bitter now that the tides have turned. Before, Celest used to have to fight against 3 titans at once when we had none. We got obliterated. Swings of power happen in lusternia, and now you're getting beat on. Tough it out.
I could care less about the power shift. I don't mind being the underdog again. It's not about who is on the losing side. Remember I am not Turgeis. Its about playing a game that is fun, not utterly miserable, knowing that when you go to defend or go to raid, that all that is going to happen is that you are going to be webbed while Hailstormed to death, well what type of fight is that? It isn't interesting? It is repetitive. It would be like using smite down and pulp head and only trying for bash brains in every fight. Wouldn't that bore the hell out of you?
QUOTE(Ashteru @ Apr 4 2007, 06:47 PM) 395592
At most others: Mreow
At Krellan: Pfh, you just want Titan to be able to grief better, so just let Sham want his ability to not have to pray while raiding.
At Krellan: Pfh, you just want Titan to be able to grief better, so just let Sham want his ability to not have to pray while raiding.
hahah you're just jealous I passed you. I'm in my prime hunting and with the less frequent wildnodes/village revolts/glom raids there's really nothing left for me to do but hunt since I suck one on one.
No, I have always agreed with Vis on this, I don't think you should be allowed to play in a tournie that you don't have something that matters up on the table to gamble with. Sorry, that I think that. But put it this way. Say you had your all powerful TH construct that you would have built. And we decided not to build the crypt, yet came every time to destroy your TH construct. All you could do was destroy our earth table or nil fountain thing? Would you find that a comparable kill to you losing this TH construct every other time that there is a nexus battle? Step back and think about it before you answer.
In raising the construct, you are enterring a pact that you think it is worth keeping and thus, worth defending. You automatically assume all risks inherent in defending and making sure that construct stays up. It has nothing to do with another organization. If we were to raise that TH construct, we would be willing to defend it. If we lost it, we'd decide whether or not to try again. We wouldn't point fingers at the opposition and say it's unfair that they do not have an equally valuable construct. That is why we're not raising our angelfont. We don't find it worthwhile to upkeep, defend, and risk losing, simply because the benefits do not justify it in our opinion.
Seeing how Estarra helped create the construct, I would have to assume she knew what she was talking about. Sorry, I guess I have more faith in her than you did.
Not once did I even imply that Estarra didn't know what she was doing, or how the construct worked. What I had said was that the general populace did not understand the construct's abilities based off of Estarra's post, which was vague. She left it intentionally vague because all organizations should be able to handle their own information as they see fit and not have it displayed on the message boards for all to see. I find it humorous that you accuse me of having no faith in Estarra. Granted, I've disagreed with the admin on numerous occasions, but I do not go so far as to disrespect them on the message boards. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few posts from you concerning your apparent lack of faith in the admin, especially concerning warriors.
Oh yeah, a bug that you all still abuse? Ok, so should we be issuing you for using niricol on liches now? (an honestly it would be too much to ask for that, but I remember when bards had pit problems and was asked not to use pits on bards. Which basically meant I could not enemy any bards since I can't guarantee they wouldn't hit the pits. But, did I unenemy all the bards I had enemied, yea actually I did... because the last thing I want to hear is all I do is abuse bugs) And yes they can run away in soul form, which is a hell of a lot better than the Glom egg, but I have no clue what you are smoking when you see a lich reform in front of your group with no eq/bal, no power and no defs up. I am sure you don't give them a button and usher them to the nearest exit.
I'm sorry, but blindness as a soul is not restricted to liches only. I've been blind as a soul before when I needed to get back to Celest for a sacrifice. It's likely it is not even niricol that causes you to be blind as a soul in most occasions, but rather the sixthsense defense. When you die with sixthsense up, you are left blind. Feel free to fight without sixthsense, but then you'd be vulnerable to dazzle. Oh but wait, then you'd issue us for abusing dazzle because you can't use sixthsense because it leaves you blind as a lich!!
And of course we try to kill reforming liches. However, a good number of them do escape.
If you happen to bury it at the complete opposite side of the local area where you die. You could also have wasted 10p for nothing and not be in the area you buryed it. Nico you are not going to make me see that the Glom construct is a good as you think it is. I mean you aren't doing a good job of even convincing Xenthos and other Glomdorings of that. So I think you arguing for it is kind of moot. Besides why do you care so much about it? I think it sucks, you think it is fine. Either way, we don't make the decision to raise it or not, so our opinions on it don't matter to Glomdoring
*sigh*
How many times do I have to say that I am in no way trying to convince Glomdoring that their construct is awesome and they should build it? I'm not even saying it's amazing. I have simply said that my impression is that it's neat and has potential to be useful, but that potential is limited in it's usage. I'm not even arguing for it! If it sucks, it sucks! If it doesn't, it doesn't! I don't care!
If our opinions on another organization's construct doesn't matter, why do you constantly tell us how amazing the Celest construct is, and how we're only hurting ourselves by not building it? Your stance on the Celest construct practically screams out two things. 1) You want Celest to build it so you can tear it down, and 2) You don't find it to be powerful so you're not worried about it's repercussions in combat.
No, but if they let Xanon get away with lich 5 times, there are some problems of competency in the crew that has been trying to stop him. Think about it, don't you think by the 3rd time that someone would have been able to stop that?
Um...yeah ok. Not only does one have to keep him still long enough to inquisition, but you have to also keep him alive long enough to inquisition. He's not exactly tanky, so once he gets tied up, he's going to die relatively quickly.
Ixion's swords were OP, but nothing anywhere near the damage that Forren can accomplish with one staff point nor anywhere near a hailstorm. Ixion could hit me for maybe 1500 total in 2 swings if that.
And how many wounds? You forget that in one of Ixion's combos he can potentially do damage, wounds, 2 poison afflictions and 2 wound afflictions. Against myself, Ixion was doing 1100-1300 damage per swing. If you're judging his damage while you have putrefaction up....45% cutting resists would help, I think.
As well, during one of our fights, he pinlegged me in the first combo (Might've been second, this was months ago, but it was very very fast for damage weapons).
So, even assuming a low 1500 damage (which is absurd because right now Malicia does 900-1000 per swing against me), he's also doing at least 900-1000+ wounds, and at least 2 afflictions (given that 1 wound afflict doesn't fire and 1 poison gets shrugged/doesn't fire).
Forren does far worse than that and remember he is not a warrior he will NEVER miss. When I see that at least 50% of the player base can be destroyed in 2 staffs or hailstorms by him, yes I would say it is too much. If you ever saw a geomancer do that much damage (which you probably never will) you would say the same thing.
Remember Athana's titan faeling mindblast before it got changed? I sure do. It hurt a hell of a lot more than Forren's staff. Even now, she does more straight out damage than Forren does, because she hits health mana and ego at once. Forren does 2017 damage to me with his staff. I can scroll/sparkle/sip that away instantly. However, given merian equi, he'll outpace my curing if I just stand there and take it. I am unable to scroll/sip/sparkle Athana's mindblast away. It's slower, but it also hurt a hell of a lot more. Not to mention that her kill requirement (mindburst) is half of what Forren's is by nature. Also, she has the passive demesne damage to help her.
if he was a BlackTalon I would say the same thing (but hehe BT's and the HS's cant even hit for 500 damage per attack, so that is moot too). Sorry but when I see a mage who is the city equiv to a druid, that can do what no commune druid could ever dream of doing (fight and win without using a demesne) I kind of find that a bit biased towards the cities in general, and I think that is . I think druids should be just as feasable to kill outside of a demesne as a mage is. Or that mages need to be toned down as much as poor druids are. Sorry bub, its not always about Celest. Reiha and I actually argue about this alot, because I vote to nerf mages across the board.
Mages != Druids. I agree that druids are very vulnerable outside their demense, and this issue was brought up long ago and sparked the introduction of thornlash to help. However, the problem is that if you boost a druid's capability outside of his demense, it invariably makes him ridiculously stronger inside the demesne. Imagine a druid with a skillset as powerful as telekinesis and telepathy in addition to their saplock abilities.
Yes I know, all you do is whore web/hit legs for prone. Which is what I told everyone that fights Forren to do now, as to keep him from trying to run away and stop his damn damage. Wanna know whats interesting though, when we whore web on him, guess what happens? Ummm Divine Fire and logoff, then around the time DF can be used again guess who appears. OH MY WHO COULD IT BE?? Forren. Yay! (No offense Forren, it could just be you happened to have to leave at those times, but it is just what I saw. Not going to call you and ask "Hey, why did you log?")
Excuse me, but I think you missed my point. I was being exceedingly sarcastic when I said all I do is web and hit legs for prone. Find me a log where I even use web at all in a group fight. I have web for solo fights when I need my curing to catch up. And again, of freaking course I use knockdown in fights. It's one of my better abilities to bypass parries, so I'll be damned sure to use it. However, I don't use it to try to augment Forren's power in groups, I try to kill on my own. In fact, I get mildly perturbed when my target dies to someone other than me when I have them in brainbash range. I do use it when someone is trying to run away, because as a knight, I don't have much else to use to keep someone still.
And I don't ever see Forren leave mid-raid because he used up divine fire. That's just stupid to think he does that.
I know that Talkan and Neraka have there timing down almost to perfection for their kills (which is why I dont understand how the hell anyone could not strip Xanon's lich??) And your demense? Hell you don't need one, you have Forren.
In group combat, a friendly demesne is always better than a person, even a demigod.
Also, explain this, why do you all suddenly quit raiding when he leaves? Have no spine do you? Getting too used to just proning or webbing people that you don't have to earn your kills anymore?
Here are two reasons. 1) He has the medallion thingy that acts as a cubix, one of the few cubixes that Celest can use on a regular basis. 2) Currently, he is one of our only active combatant mages, an essential for raids.
Besides that, about a week ago, Forren was gone for a week and a half due to RL circumstances. Did Celest cease raiding? No. Did we flounder about helplessly in group combat? Again, no. We're fully capable with and without Forren there to help. He's a large factor, of course, because like I said, he's a great mage and he has the medallion. These reasons are similar to why Daevos is such a huge influence in fights. One, being that he is a great fighter and leader, and two, he had the cubix, now a medallion, of his own.
Why does Forren call for help when he is at Earth Lords, when he is much stronger than Ixion ever was? Does he actually need you all to help him now? And if so, is it because he is "adapting" as you say?
Actually, most times I see Forren just solo raiding earth, completely out of the blue. He doesn't usually ask for help. He does when there are a lot of people against just him. He could just cubix away, but he enjoys the fighting, so we come to play too.
Nico, I have respect for that. You and I normally have a great time in the Catacombs when it is one on one, or 2 on 2. So why are you sitting and joining up with Team Whore? When you know that the victory is not anywhere near as enjoyable as the thrill of one on one? Do you remember on Earth? You were almost out of power and Malicia was almost out of health, that is when the fight becomes thrilling, not when you all join together use enchants and have Forren make the kills for you.
I could care less about the power shift. I don't mind being the underdog again. It's not about who is on the losing side. Remember I am not Turgeis. Its about playing a game that is fun, not utterly miserable, knowing that when you go to defend or go to raid, that all that is going to happen is that you are going to be webbed while Hailstormed to death, well what type of fight is that? It isn't interesting? It is repetitive. It would be like using smite down and pulp head and only trying for bash brains in every fight. Wouldn't that bore the hell out of you?
You really make it sound like Celest plans its offensive attacks around Forren and his damage. That simply is not the case, as I have stated over and over again. The web whoring is typical of any group situation. I know we like to hinder Daevos because his offensive contribution to a fight can be overwhelming. As well, webbing a target makes them vulnerable to attacks from the group, as it prones the target and removes parries. When I attack a target, I am not thinking "Oh gee, I hope Forren kills him quick!". Rather, I am thinking "Dammit, gotta get head wounds up faster before he dies of damage or escapes!".
To me, the only reason you seem to think as you do is because Forren does a large amount of damage, and in group combat, targets usually die to damage before anything else. Given that, Forren's damage results in a lot more kills for him than most others.
In raising the construct, you are enterring a pact that you think it is worth keeping and thus, worth defending. You automatically assume all risks inherent in defending and making sure that construct stays up. It has nothing to do with another organization. If we were to raise that TH construct, we would be willing to defend it. If we lost it, we'd decide whether or not to try again. We wouldn't point fingers at the opposition and say it's unfair that they do not have an equally valuable construct. That is why we're not raising our angelfont. We don't find it worthwhile to upkeep, defend, and risk losing, simply because the benefits do not justify it in our opinion.
Seeing how Estarra helped create the construct, I would have to assume she knew what she was talking about. Sorry, I guess I have more faith in her than you did.
Not once did I even imply that Estarra didn't know what she was doing, or how the construct worked. What I had said was that the general populace did not understand the construct's abilities based off of Estarra's post, which was vague. She left it intentionally vague because all organizations should be able to handle their own information as they see fit and not have it displayed on the message boards for all to see. I find it humorous that you accuse me of having no faith in Estarra. Granted, I've disagreed with the admin on numerous occasions, but I do not go so far as to disrespect them on the message boards. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few posts from you concerning your apparent lack of faith in the admin, especially concerning warriors.
Oh yeah, a bug that you all still abuse? Ok, so should we be issuing you for using niricol on liches now? (an honestly it would be too much to ask for that, but I remember when bards had pit problems and was asked not to use pits on bards. Which basically meant I could not enemy any bards since I can't guarantee they wouldn't hit the pits. But, did I unenemy all the bards I had enemied, yea actually I did... because the last thing I want to hear is all I do is abuse bugs) And yes they can run away in soul form, which is a hell of a lot better than the Glom egg, but I have no clue what you are smoking when you see a lich reform in front of your group with no eq/bal, no power and no defs up. I am sure you don't give them a button and usher them to the nearest exit.
I'm sorry, but blindness as a soul is not restricted to liches only. I've been blind as a soul before when I needed to get back to Celest for a sacrifice. It's likely it is not even niricol that causes you to be blind as a soul in most occasions, but rather the sixthsense defense. When you die with sixthsense up, you are left blind. Feel free to fight without sixthsense, but then you'd be vulnerable to dazzle. Oh but wait, then you'd issue us for abusing dazzle because you can't use sixthsense because it leaves you blind as a lich!!
And of course we try to kill reforming liches. However, a good number of them do escape.
If you happen to bury it at the complete opposite side of the local area where you die. You could also have wasted 10p for nothing and not be in the area you buryed it. Nico you are not going to make me see that the Glom construct is a good as you think it is. I mean you aren't doing a good job of even convincing Xenthos and other Glomdorings of that. So I think you arguing for it is kind of moot. Besides why do you care so much about it? I think it sucks, you think it is fine. Either way, we don't make the decision to raise it or not, so our opinions on it don't matter to Glomdoring
*sigh*
How many times do I have to say that I am in no way trying to convince Glomdoring that their construct is awesome and they should build it? I'm not even saying it's amazing. I have simply said that my impression is that it's neat and has potential to be useful, but that potential is limited in it's usage. I'm not even arguing for it! If it sucks, it sucks! If it doesn't, it doesn't! I don't care!
If our opinions on another organization's construct doesn't matter, why do you constantly tell us how amazing the Celest construct is, and how we're only hurting ourselves by not building it? Your stance on the Celest construct practically screams out two things. 1) You want Celest to build it so you can tear it down, and 2) You don't find it to be powerful so you're not worried about it's repercussions in combat.
No, but if they let Xanon get away with lich 5 times, there are some problems of competency in the crew that has been trying to stop him. Think about it, don't you think by the 3rd time that someone would have been able to stop that?
Um...yeah ok. Not only does one have to keep him still long enough to inquisition, but you have to also keep him alive long enough to inquisition. He's not exactly tanky, so once he gets tied up, he's going to die relatively quickly.
Ixion's swords were OP, but nothing anywhere near the damage that Forren can accomplish with one staff point nor anywhere near a hailstorm. Ixion could hit me for maybe 1500 total in 2 swings if that.
And how many wounds? You forget that in one of Ixion's combos he can potentially do damage, wounds, 2 poison afflictions and 2 wound afflictions. Against myself, Ixion was doing 1100-1300 damage per swing. If you're judging his damage while you have putrefaction up....45% cutting resists would help, I think.
As well, during one of our fights, he pinlegged me in the first combo (Might've been second, this was months ago, but it was very very fast for damage weapons).
So, even assuming a low 1500 damage (which is absurd because right now Malicia does 900-1000 per swing against me), he's also doing at least 900-1000+ wounds, and at least 2 afflictions (given that 1 wound afflict doesn't fire and 1 poison gets shrugged/doesn't fire).
Forren does far worse than that and remember he is not a warrior he will NEVER miss. When I see that at least 50% of the player base can be destroyed in 2 staffs or hailstorms by him, yes I would say it is too much. If you ever saw a geomancer do that much damage (which you probably never will) you would say the same thing.
Remember Athana's titan faeling mindblast before it got changed? I sure do. It hurt a hell of a lot more than Forren's staff. Even now, she does more straight out damage than Forren does, because she hits health mana and ego at once. Forren does 2017 damage to me with his staff. I can scroll/sparkle/sip that away instantly. However, given merian equi, he'll outpace my curing if I just stand there and take it. I am unable to scroll/sip/sparkle Athana's mindblast away. It's slower, but it also hurt a hell of a lot more. Not to mention that her kill requirement (mindburst) is half of what Forren's is by nature. Also, she has the passive demesne damage to help her.
if he was a BlackTalon I would say the same thing (but hehe BT's and the HS's cant even hit for 500 damage per attack, so that is moot too). Sorry but when I see a mage who is the city equiv to a druid, that can do what no commune druid could ever dream of doing (fight and win without using a demesne) I kind of find that a bit biased towards the cities in general, and I think that is . I think druids should be just as feasable to kill outside of a demesne as a mage is. Or that mages need to be toned down as much as poor druids are. Sorry bub, its not always about Celest. Reiha and I actually argue about this alot, because I vote to nerf mages across the board.
Mages != Druids. I agree that druids are very vulnerable outside their demense, and this issue was brought up long ago and sparked the introduction of thornlash to help. However, the problem is that if you boost a druid's capability outside of his demense, it invariably makes him ridiculously stronger inside the demesne. Imagine a druid with a skillset as powerful as telekinesis and telepathy in addition to their saplock abilities.
Yes I know, all you do is whore web/hit legs for prone. Which is what I told everyone that fights Forren to do now, as to keep him from trying to run away and stop his damn damage. Wanna know whats interesting though, when we whore web on him, guess what happens? Ummm Divine Fire and logoff, then around the time DF can be used again guess who appears. OH MY WHO COULD IT BE?? Forren. Yay! (No offense Forren, it could just be you happened to have to leave at those times, but it is just what I saw. Not going to call you and ask "Hey, why did you log?")
Excuse me, but I think you missed my point. I was being exceedingly sarcastic when I said all I do is web and hit legs for prone. Find me a log where I even use web at all in a group fight. I have web for solo fights when I need my curing to catch up. And again, of freaking course I use knockdown in fights. It's one of my better abilities to bypass parries, so I'll be damned sure to use it. However, I don't use it to try to augment Forren's power in groups, I try to kill on my own. In fact, I get mildly perturbed when my target dies to someone other than me when I have them in brainbash range. I do use it when someone is trying to run away, because as a knight, I don't have much else to use to keep someone still.
And I don't ever see Forren leave mid-raid because he used up divine fire. That's just stupid to think he does that.
I know that Talkan and Neraka have there timing down almost to perfection for their kills (which is why I dont understand how the hell anyone could not strip Xanon's lich??) And your demense? Hell you don't need one, you have Forren.
In group combat, a friendly demesne is always better than a person, even a demigod.
Also, explain this, why do you all suddenly quit raiding when he leaves? Have no spine do you? Getting too used to just proning or webbing people that you don't have to earn your kills anymore?
Here are two reasons. 1) He has the medallion thingy that acts as a cubix, one of the few cubixes that Celest can use on a regular basis. 2) Currently, he is one of our only active combatant mages, an essential for raids.
Besides that, about a week ago, Forren was gone for a week and a half due to RL circumstances. Did Celest cease raiding? No. Did we flounder about helplessly in group combat? Again, no. We're fully capable with and without Forren there to help. He's a large factor, of course, because like I said, he's a great mage and he has the medallion. These reasons are similar to why Daevos is such a huge influence in fights. One, being that he is a great fighter and leader, and two, he had the cubix, now a medallion, of his own.
Why does Forren call for help when he is at Earth Lords, when he is much stronger than Ixion ever was? Does he actually need you all to help him now? And if so, is it because he is "adapting" as you say?
Actually, most times I see Forren just solo raiding earth, completely out of the blue. He doesn't usually ask for help. He does when there are a lot of people against just him. He could just cubix away, but he enjoys the fighting, so we come to play too.
Nico, I have respect for that. You and I normally have a great time in the Catacombs when it is one on one, or 2 on 2. So why are you sitting and joining up with Team Whore? When you know that the victory is not anywhere near as enjoyable as the thrill of one on one? Do you remember on Earth? You were almost out of power and Malicia was almost out of health, that is when the fight becomes thrilling, not when you all join together use enchants and have Forren make the kills for you.
I could care less about the power shift. I don't mind being the underdog again. It's not about who is on the losing side. Remember I am not Turgeis. Its about playing a game that is fun, not utterly miserable, knowing that when you go to defend or go to raid, that all that is going to happen is that you are going to be webbed while Hailstormed to death, well what type of fight is that? It isn't interesting? It is repetitive. It would be like using smite down and pulp head and only trying for bash brains in every fight. Wouldn't that bore the hell out of you?
You really make it sound like Celest plans its offensive attacks around Forren and his damage. That simply is not the case, as I have stated over and over again. The web whoring is typical of any group situation. I know we like to hinder Daevos because his offensive contribution to a fight can be overwhelming. As well, webbing a target makes them vulnerable to attacks from the group, as it prones the target and removes parries. When I attack a target, I am not thinking "Oh gee, I hope Forren kills him quick!". Rather, I am thinking "Dammit, gotta get head wounds up faster before he dies of damage or escapes!".
To me, the only reason you seem to think as you do is because Forren does a large amount of damage, and in group combat, targets usually die to damage before anything else. Given that, Forren's damage results in a lot more kills for him than most others.
QUOTE(Nico @ Apr 5 2007, 01:44 AM) 395696
No, I have always agreed with Vis on this, I don't think you should be allowed to play in a tournie that you don't have something that matters up on the table to gamble with. Sorry, that I think that. But put it this way. Say you had your all powerful TH construct that you would have built. And we decided not to build the crypt, yet came every time to destroy your TH construct. All you could do was destroy our earth table or nil fountain thing? Would you find that a comparable kill to you losing this TH construct every other time that there is a nexus battle? Step back and think about it before you answer.
In raising the construct, you are enterring a pact that you think it is worth keeping and thus, worth defending. You automatically assume all risks inherent in defending and making sure that construct stays up. It has nothing to do with another organization. If we were to raise that TH construct, we would be willing to defend it. If we lost it, we'd decide whether or not to try again. We wouldn't point fingers at the opposition and say it's unfair that they do not have an equally valuable construct. That is why we're not raising our angelfont. We don't find it worthwhile to upkeep, defend, and risk losing, simply because the benefits do not justify it in our opinion.
Ok, I think we can agree to disagree on this part I hope
Seeing how Estarra helped create the construct, I would have to assume she knew what she was talking about. Sorry, I guess I have more faith in her than you did.
Not once did I even imply that Estarra didn't know what she was doing, or how the construct worked. What I had said was that the general populace did not understand the construct's abilities based off of Estarra's post, which was vague. She left it intentionally vague because all organizations should be able to handle their own information as they see fit and not have it displayed on the message boards for all to see. I find it humorous that you accuse me of having no faith in Estarra. Granted, I've disagreed with the admin on numerous occasions, but I do not go so far as to disrespect them on the message boards. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few posts from you concerning your apparent lack of faith in the admin, especially concerning warriors.
Sorry, that was uncalled of for me to say, I know you didn't imply that. I just kinda felt that since she made her announcement on what it did, it would work exactly how it said it would.
Oh yeah, a bug that you all still abuse? Ok, so should we be issuing you for using niricol on liches now? (an honestly it would be too much to ask for that, but I remember when bards had pit problems and was asked not to use pits on bards. Which basically meant I could not enemy any bards since I can't guarantee they wouldn't hit the pits. But, did I unenemy all the bards I had enemied, yea actually I did... because the last thing I want to hear is all I do is abuse bugs) And yes they can run away in soul form, which is a hell of a lot better than the Glom egg, but I have no clue what you are smoking when you see a lich reform in front of your group with no eq/bal, no power and no defs up. I am sure you don't give them a button and usher them to the nearest exit.
I'm sorry, but blindness as a soul is not restricted to liches only. I've been blind as a soul before when I needed to get back to Celest for a sacrifice. It's likely it is not even niricol that causes you to be blind as a soul in most occasions, but rather the sixthsense defense. When you die with sixthsense up, you are left blind. Feel free to fight without sixthsense, but then you'd be vulnerable to dazzle. Oh but wait, then you'd issue us for abusing dazzle because you can't use sixthsense because it leaves you blind as a lich!!
And of course we try to kill reforming liches. However, a good number of them do escape.
Yea it is the sixthsense defense alot of times, and no I don't issue about simple things like that, hell I haven't ever issued anyone for doing something that could be issued silly! And yes some liches can escape, but can you admit that you do have a good chance of chasing them down?
If you happen to bury it at the complete opposite side of the local area where you die. You could also have wasted 10p for nothing and not be in the area you buryed it. Nico you are not going to make me see that the Glom construct is a good as you think it is. I mean you aren't doing a good job of even convincing Xenthos and other Glomdorings of that. So I think you arguing for it is kind of moot. Besides why do you care so much about it? I think it sucks, you think it is fine. Either way, we don't make the decision to raise it or not, so our opinions on it don't matter to Glomdoring
*sigh*
How many times do I have to say that I am in no way trying to convince Glomdoring that their construct is awesome and they should build it? I'm not even saying it's amazing. I have simply said that my impression is that it's neat and has potential to be useful, but that potential is limited in it's usage. I'm not even arguing for it! If it sucks, it sucks! If it doesn't, it doesn't! I don't care!
If our opinions on another organization's construct doesn't matter, why do you constantly tell us how amazing the Celest construct is, and how we're only hurting ourselves by not building it? Your stance on the Celest construct practically screams out two things. 1) You want Celest to build it so you can tear it down, and 2) You don't find it to be powerful so you're not worried about it's repercussions in combat.
I find it to be powerful, and you are right, I want it built so that we have something of equal value to you that we can destroy. But then again free flux is awful too
No, but if they let Xanon get away with lich 5 times, there are some problems of competency in the crew that has been trying to stop him. Think about it, don't you think by the 3rd time that someone would have been able to stop that?
Um...yeah ok. Not only does one have to keep him still long enough to inquisition, but you have to also keep him alive long enough to inquisition. He's not exactly tanky, so once he gets tied up, he's going to die relatively quickly.
But you have to admit, if you are worried about him doing that, why bother with damage, just keep him prone until you inqui. Which yes take a little time, and no I don't expect a Paladain to do it, but a Celestine should be able to while people dazzle/trasnfix/web/rope him, then kill him. (Sorry Xanon, I may be signing yer death warrant)
Ixion's swords were OP, but nothing anywhere near the damage that Forren can accomplish with one staff point nor anywhere near a hailstorm. Ixion could hit me for maybe 1500 total in 2 swings if that.
And how many wounds? You forget that in one of Ixion's combos he can potentially do damage, wounds, 2 poison afflictions and 2 wound afflictions. Against myself, Ixion was doing 1100-1300 damage per swing. If you're judging his damage while you have putrefaction up....45% cutting resists would help, I think.
As well, during one of our fights, he pinlegged me in the first combo (Might've been second, this was months ago, but it was very very fast for damage weapons).
So, even assuming a low 1500 damage (which is absurd because right now Malicia does 900-1000 per swing against me), he's also doing at least 900-1000+ wounds, and at least 2 afflictions (given that 1 wound afflict doesn't fire and 1 poison gets shrugged/doesn't fire).
Nah his wounds were on a different weapon, so it wasn't too terrible with wounds, I can understand the poison afflict. and I have no resistances, I am a tracker, remember and we even though we deal with the natural environment, have no resistance buffs. So when he was hitting me he was hitting just my plate. Yes he could get quick pinlegs, But I dont think any quicker than you can get windpipes or other BM's can get pinlegs. But maybe my plate is just better and I got luckier I dunno, but you also have to factor in he could miss especially if you are using combatstyle defensive.
Forren does far worse than that and remember he is not a warrior he will NEVER miss. When I see that at least 50% of the player base can be destroyed in 2 staffs or hailstorms by him, yes I would say it is too much. If you ever saw a geomancer do that much damage (which you probably never will) you would say the same thing.
Remember Athana's titan faeling mindblast before it got changed? I sure do. It hurt a hell of a lot more than Forren's staff. Even now, she does more straight out damage than Forren does, because she hits health mana and ego at once. Forren does 2017 damage to me with his staff. I can scroll/sparkle/sip that away instantly. However, given merian equi, he'll outpace my curing if I just stand there and take it. I am unable to scroll/sip/sparkle Athana's mindblast away. It's slower, but it also hurt a hell of a lot more. Not to mention that her kill requirement (mindburst) is half of what Forren's is by nature. Also, she has the passive demesne damage to help her.
Yes athy's mindblast hit hard, but didn't they nerf that a while back? And Forren knows how to use telekinetics, he is very good with using burstvessles and clots. I just wish to see him use them more. Yes I know its not always feasable as compared to straight damage killing, but since he is against the OP champ arties why strictly just use them for damage? I guess since they wont change them, I can understand that he isn't going to just not use it....-shrug-
if he was a BlackTalon I would say the same thing (but hehe BT's and the HS's cant even hit for 500 damage per attack, so that is moot too). Sorry but when I see a mage who is the city equiv to a druid, that can do what no commune druid could ever dream of doing (fight and win without using a demesne) I kind of find that a bit biased towards the cities in general, and I think that is . I think druids should be just as feasable to kill outside of a demesne as a mage is. Or that mages need to be toned down as much as poor druids are. Sorry bub, its not always about Celest. Reiha and I actually argue about this alot, because I vote to nerf mages across the board.
Mages != Druids. I agree that druids are very vulnerable outside their demense, and this issue was brought up long ago and sparked the introduction of thornlash to help. However, the problem is that if you boost a druid's capability outside of his demense, it invariably makes him ridiculously stronger inside the demesne. Imagine a druid with a skillset as powerful as telekinesis and telepathy in addition to their saplock abilities.
I always thought mages were supposed to be like druids, that they were deadly in a demesne and not too terrible outside of one, but I guess I could be wrong, which would make mages the most worthwhile class all the way around, even though their fighting is pretty linear, they can work great outside a demense and even better in one
Yes I know, all you do is whore web/hit legs for prone. Which is what I told everyone that fights Forren to do now, as to keep him from trying to run away and stop his damn damage. Wanna know whats interesting though, when we whore web on him, guess what happens? Ummm Divine Fire and logoff, then around the time DF can be used again guess who appears. OH MY WHO COULD IT BE?? Forren. Yay! (No offense Forren, it could just be you happened to have to leave at those times, but it is just what I saw. Not going to call you and ask "Hey, why did you log?")
Excuse me, but I think you missed my point. I was being exceedingly sarcastic when I said all I do is web and hit legs for prone. Find me a log where I even use web at all in a group fight. I have web for solo fights when I need my curing to catch up. And again, of freaking course I use knockdown in fights. It's one of my better abilities to bypass parries, so I'll be damned sure to use it. However, I don't use it to try to augment Forren's power in groups, I try to kill on my own. In fact, I get mildly perturbed when my target dies to someone other than me when I have them in brainbash range. I do use it when someone is trying to run away, because as a knight, I don't have much else to use to keep someone still.
Ok I could be wrong, my bad
And I don't ever see Forren leave mid-raid because he used up divine fire. That's just stupid to think he does that.
I have, so that is why I said it. But like I said, it could be that something came up.
I know that Talkan and Neraka have there timing down almost to perfection for their kills (which is why I dont understand how the hell anyone could not strip Xanon's lich??) And your demense? Hell you don't need one, you have Forren.
In group combat, a friendly demesne is always better than a person, even a demigod.
Yes a friendly demesne is nice in combat, but I don't always see it being better than a person, since it is only as good as the person keeping it, and when they die it dies.
Also, explain this, why do you all suddenly quit raiding when he leaves? Have no spine do you? Getting too used to just proning or webbing people that you don't have to earn your kills anymore?
Here are two reasons. 1) He has the medallion thingy that acts as a cubix, one of the few cubixes that Celest can use on a regular basis. 2) Currently, he is one of our only active combatant mages, an essential for raids.
Thought you had more than that, and why such a lack in Aqua's?
Besides that, about a week ago, Forren was gone for a week and a half due to RL circumstances. Did Celest cease raiding? No. Did we flounder about helplessly in group combat? Again, no. We're fully capable with and without Forren there to help. He's a large factor, of course, because like I said, he's a great mage and he has the medallion. These reasons are similar to why Daevos is such a huge influence in fights. One, being that he is a great fighter and leader, and two, he had the cubix, now a medallion, of his own.
Ok I will conceed
Why does Forren call for help when he is at Earth Lords, when he is much stronger than Ixion ever was? Does he actually need you all to help him now? And if so, is it because he is "adapting" as you say?
Actually, most times I see Forren just solo raiding earth, completely out of the blue. He doesn't usually ask for help. He does when there are a lot of people against just him. He could just cubix away, but he enjoys the fighting, so we come to play too.
Nico, I have respect for that. You and I normally have a great time in the Catacombs when it is one on one, or 2 on 2. So why are you sitting and joining up with Team Whore? When you know that the victory is not anywhere near as enjoyable as the thrill of one on one? Do you remember on Earth? You were almost out of power and Malicia was almost out of health, that is when the fight becomes thrilling, not when you all join together use enchants and have Forren make the kills for you.
I could care less about the power shift. I don't mind being the underdog again. It's not about who is on the losing side. Remember I am not Turgeis. Its about playing a game that is fun, not utterly miserable, knowing that when you go to defend or go to raid, that all that is going to happen is that you are going to be webbed while Hailstormed to death, well what type of fight is that? It isn't interesting? It is repetitive. It would be like using smite down and pulp head and only trying for bash brains in every fight. Wouldn't that bore the hell out of you?
You really make it sound like Celest plans its offensive attacks around Forren and his damage. That simply is not the case, as I have stated over and over again. The web whoring is typical of any group situation. I know we like to hinder Daevos because his offensive contribution to a fight can be overwhelming. As well, webbing a target makes them vulnerable to attacks from the group, as it prones the target and removes parries. When I attack a target, I am not thinking "Oh gee, I hope Forren kills him quick!". Rather, I am thinking "Dammit, gotta get head wounds up faster before he dies of damage or escapes!".
To me, the only reason you seem to think as you do is because Forren does a large amount of damage, and in group combat, targets usually die to damage before anything else. Given that, Forren's damage results in a lot more kills for him than most others.
I agree with this, since most people don't have our health, they normally are less than 3k, so yeah seeing damage kills like hailstorm damn near wipe out a whole group can get ya thinking that.
In raising the construct, you are enterring a pact that you think it is worth keeping and thus, worth defending. You automatically assume all risks inherent in defending and making sure that construct stays up. It has nothing to do with another organization. If we were to raise that TH construct, we would be willing to defend it. If we lost it, we'd decide whether or not to try again. We wouldn't point fingers at the opposition and say it's unfair that they do not have an equally valuable construct. That is why we're not raising our angelfont. We don't find it worthwhile to upkeep, defend, and risk losing, simply because the benefits do not justify it in our opinion.
Ok, I think we can agree to disagree on this part I hope
Seeing how Estarra helped create the construct, I would have to assume she knew what she was talking about. Sorry, I guess I have more faith in her than you did.
Not once did I even imply that Estarra didn't know what she was doing, or how the construct worked. What I had said was that the general populace did not understand the construct's abilities based off of Estarra's post, which was vague. She left it intentionally vague because all organizations should be able to handle their own information as they see fit and not have it displayed on the message boards for all to see. I find it humorous that you accuse me of having no faith in Estarra. Granted, I've disagreed with the admin on numerous occasions, but I do not go so far as to disrespect them on the message boards. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few posts from you concerning your apparent lack of faith in the admin, especially concerning warriors.
Sorry, that was uncalled of for me to say, I know you didn't imply that. I just kinda felt that since she made her announcement on what it did, it would work exactly how it said it would.
Oh yeah, a bug that you all still abuse? Ok, so should we be issuing you for using niricol on liches now? (an honestly it would be too much to ask for that, but I remember when bards had pit problems and was asked not to use pits on bards. Which basically meant I could not enemy any bards since I can't guarantee they wouldn't hit the pits. But, did I unenemy all the bards I had enemied, yea actually I did... because the last thing I want to hear is all I do is abuse bugs) And yes they can run away in soul form, which is a hell of a lot better than the Glom egg, but I have no clue what you are smoking when you see a lich reform in front of your group with no eq/bal, no power and no defs up. I am sure you don't give them a button and usher them to the nearest exit.
I'm sorry, but blindness as a soul is not restricted to liches only. I've been blind as a soul before when I needed to get back to Celest for a sacrifice. It's likely it is not even niricol that causes you to be blind as a soul in most occasions, but rather the sixthsense defense. When you die with sixthsense up, you are left blind. Feel free to fight without sixthsense, but then you'd be vulnerable to dazzle. Oh but wait, then you'd issue us for abusing dazzle because you can't use sixthsense because it leaves you blind as a lich!!
And of course we try to kill reforming liches. However, a good number of them do escape.
Yea it is the sixthsense defense alot of times, and no I don't issue about simple things like that, hell I haven't ever issued anyone for doing something that could be issued silly! And yes some liches can escape, but can you admit that you do have a good chance of chasing them down?
If you happen to bury it at the complete opposite side of the local area where you die. You could also have wasted 10p for nothing and not be in the area you buryed it. Nico you are not going to make me see that the Glom construct is a good as you think it is. I mean you aren't doing a good job of even convincing Xenthos and other Glomdorings of that. So I think you arguing for it is kind of moot. Besides why do you care so much about it? I think it sucks, you think it is fine. Either way, we don't make the decision to raise it or not, so our opinions on it don't matter to Glomdoring
*sigh*
How many times do I have to say that I am in no way trying to convince Glomdoring that their construct is awesome and they should build it? I'm not even saying it's amazing. I have simply said that my impression is that it's neat and has potential to be useful, but that potential is limited in it's usage. I'm not even arguing for it! If it sucks, it sucks! If it doesn't, it doesn't! I don't care!
If our opinions on another organization's construct doesn't matter, why do you constantly tell us how amazing the Celest construct is, and how we're only hurting ourselves by not building it? Your stance on the Celest construct practically screams out two things. 1) You want Celest to build it so you can tear it down, and 2) You don't find it to be powerful so you're not worried about it's repercussions in combat.
I find it to be powerful, and you are right, I want it built so that we have something of equal value to you that we can destroy. But then again free flux is awful too
No, but if they let Xanon get away with lich 5 times, there are some problems of competency in the crew that has been trying to stop him. Think about it, don't you think by the 3rd time that someone would have been able to stop that?
Um...yeah ok. Not only does one have to keep him still long enough to inquisition, but you have to also keep him alive long enough to inquisition. He's not exactly tanky, so once he gets tied up, he's going to die relatively quickly.
But you have to admit, if you are worried about him doing that, why bother with damage, just keep him prone until you inqui. Which yes take a little time, and no I don't expect a Paladain to do it, but a Celestine should be able to while people dazzle/trasnfix/web/rope him, then kill him. (Sorry Xanon, I may be signing yer death warrant
)Ixion's swords were OP, but nothing anywhere near the damage that Forren can accomplish with one staff point nor anywhere near a hailstorm. Ixion could hit me for maybe 1500 total in 2 swings if that.
And how many wounds? You forget that in one of Ixion's combos he can potentially do damage, wounds, 2 poison afflictions and 2 wound afflictions. Against myself, Ixion was doing 1100-1300 damage per swing. If you're judging his damage while you have putrefaction up....45% cutting resists would help, I think.
As well, during one of our fights, he pinlegged me in the first combo (Might've been second, this was months ago, but it was very very fast for damage weapons).
So, even assuming a low 1500 damage (which is absurd because right now Malicia does 900-1000 per swing against me), he's also doing at least 900-1000+ wounds, and at least 2 afflictions (given that 1 wound afflict doesn't fire and 1 poison gets shrugged/doesn't fire).
Nah his wounds were on a different weapon, so it wasn't too terrible with wounds, I can understand the poison afflict. and I have no resistances, I am a tracker, remember and we even though we deal with the natural environment, have no resistance buffs. So when he was hitting me he was hitting just my plate. Yes he could get quick pinlegs, But I dont think any quicker than you can get windpipes or other BM's can get pinlegs. But maybe my plate is just better and I got luckier I dunno, but you also have to factor in he could miss especially if you are using combatstyle defensive.
Forren does far worse than that and remember he is not a warrior he will NEVER miss. When I see that at least 50% of the player base can be destroyed in 2 staffs or hailstorms by him, yes I would say it is too much. If you ever saw a geomancer do that much damage (which you probably never will) you would say the same thing.
Remember Athana's titan faeling mindblast before it got changed? I sure do. It hurt a hell of a lot more than Forren's staff. Even now, she does more straight out damage than Forren does, because she hits health mana and ego at once. Forren does 2017 damage to me with his staff. I can scroll/sparkle/sip that away instantly. However, given merian equi, he'll outpace my curing if I just stand there and take it. I am unable to scroll/sip/sparkle Athana's mindblast away. It's slower, but it also hurt a hell of a lot more. Not to mention that her kill requirement (mindburst) is half of what Forren's is by nature. Also, she has the passive demesne damage to help her.
Yes athy's mindblast hit hard, but didn't they nerf that a while back? And Forren knows how to use telekinetics, he is very good with using burstvessles and clots. I just wish to see him use them more. Yes I know its not always feasable as compared to straight damage killing, but since he is against the OP champ arties why strictly just use them for damage? I guess since they wont change them, I can understand that he isn't going to just not use it....-shrug-
if he was a BlackTalon I would say the same thing (but hehe BT's and the HS's cant even hit for 500 damage per attack, so that is moot too). Sorry but when I see a mage who is the city equiv to a druid, that can do what no commune druid could ever dream of doing (fight and win without using a demesne) I kind of find that a bit biased towards the cities in general, and I think that is . I think druids should be just as feasable to kill outside of a demesne as a mage is. Or that mages need to be toned down as much as poor druids are. Sorry bub, its not always about Celest. Reiha and I actually argue about this alot, because I vote to nerf mages across the board.
Mages != Druids. I agree that druids are very vulnerable outside their demense, and this issue was brought up long ago and sparked the introduction of thornlash to help. However, the problem is that if you boost a druid's capability outside of his demense, it invariably makes him ridiculously stronger inside the demesne. Imagine a druid with a skillset as powerful as telekinesis and telepathy in addition to their saplock abilities.
I always thought mages were supposed to be like druids, that they were deadly in a demesne and not too terrible outside of one, but I guess I could be wrong, which would make mages the most worthwhile class all the way around, even though their fighting is pretty linear, they can work great outside a demense and even better in one
Yes I know, all you do is whore web/hit legs for prone. Which is what I told everyone that fights Forren to do now, as to keep him from trying to run away and stop his damn damage. Wanna know whats interesting though, when we whore web on him, guess what happens? Ummm Divine Fire and logoff, then around the time DF can be used again guess who appears. OH MY WHO COULD IT BE?? Forren. Yay! (No offense Forren, it could just be you happened to have to leave at those times, but it is just what I saw. Not going to call you and ask "Hey, why did you log?")
Excuse me, but I think you missed my point. I was being exceedingly sarcastic when I said all I do is web and hit legs for prone. Find me a log where I even use web at all in a group fight. I have web for solo fights when I need my curing to catch up. And again, of freaking course I use knockdown in fights. It's one of my better abilities to bypass parries, so I'll be damned sure to use it. However, I don't use it to try to augment Forren's power in groups, I try to kill on my own. In fact, I get mildly perturbed when my target dies to someone other than me when I have them in brainbash range. I do use it when someone is trying to run away, because as a knight, I don't have much else to use to keep someone still.
Ok I could be wrong, my bad
And I don't ever see Forren leave mid-raid because he used up divine fire. That's just stupid to think he does that.
I have, so that is why I said it. But like I said, it could be that something came up.
I know that Talkan and Neraka have there timing down almost to perfection for their kills (which is why I dont understand how the hell anyone could not strip Xanon's lich??) And your demense? Hell you don't need one, you have Forren.
In group combat, a friendly demesne is always better than a person, even a demigod.
Yes a friendly demesne is nice in combat, but I don't always see it being better than a person, since it is only as good as the person keeping it, and when they die it dies.
Also, explain this, why do you all suddenly quit raiding when he leaves? Have no spine do you? Getting too used to just proning or webbing people that you don't have to earn your kills anymore?
Here are two reasons. 1) He has the medallion thingy that acts as a cubix, one of the few cubixes that Celest can use on a regular basis. 2) Currently, he is one of our only active combatant mages, an essential for raids.
Thought you had more than that, and why such a lack in Aqua's?
Besides that, about a week ago, Forren was gone for a week and a half due to RL circumstances. Did Celest cease raiding? No. Did we flounder about helplessly in group combat? Again, no. We're fully capable with and without Forren there to help. He's a large factor, of course, because like I said, he's a great mage and he has the medallion. These reasons are similar to why Daevos is such a huge influence in fights. One, being that he is a great fighter and leader, and two, he had the cubix, now a medallion, of his own.
Ok I will conceed
Why does Forren call for help when he is at Earth Lords, when he is much stronger than Ixion ever was? Does he actually need you all to help him now? And if so, is it because he is "adapting" as you say?
Actually, most times I see Forren just solo raiding earth, completely out of the blue. He doesn't usually ask for help. He does when there are a lot of people against just him. He could just cubix away, but he enjoys the fighting, so we come to play too.
Nico, I have respect for that. You and I normally have a great time in the Catacombs when it is one on one, or 2 on 2. So why are you sitting and joining up with Team Whore? When you know that the victory is not anywhere near as enjoyable as the thrill of one on one? Do you remember on Earth? You were almost out of power and Malicia was almost out of health, that is when the fight becomes thrilling, not when you all join together use enchants and have Forren make the kills for you.
I could care less about the power shift. I don't mind being the underdog again. It's not about who is on the losing side. Remember I am not Turgeis. Its about playing a game that is fun, not utterly miserable, knowing that when you go to defend or go to raid, that all that is going to happen is that you are going to be webbed while Hailstormed to death, well what type of fight is that? It isn't interesting? It is repetitive. It would be like using smite down and pulp head and only trying for bash brains in every fight. Wouldn't that bore the hell out of you?
You really make it sound like Celest plans its offensive attacks around Forren and his damage. That simply is not the case, as I have stated over and over again. The web whoring is typical of any group situation. I know we like to hinder Daevos because his offensive contribution to a fight can be overwhelming. As well, webbing a target makes them vulnerable to attacks from the group, as it prones the target and removes parries. When I attack a target, I am not thinking "Oh gee, I hope Forren kills him quick!". Rather, I am thinking "Dammit, gotta get head wounds up faster before he dies of damage or escapes!".
To me, the only reason you seem to think as you do is because Forren does a large amount of damage, and in group combat, targets usually die to damage before anything else. Given that, Forren's damage results in a lot more kills for him than most others.
I agree with this, since most people don't have our health, they normally are less than 3k, so yeah seeing damage kills like hailstorm damn near wipe out a whole group can get ya thinking that.
QUOTE(Krellan @ Apr 5 2007, 05:03 AM) 395682
hahah you're just jealous I passed you. I'm in my prime hunting and with the less frequent wildnodes/village revolts/glom raids there's really nothing left for me to do but hunt since I suck one on one.
Pfh, I don't have time to bash anymore, and I don't mind that.
Just sorry to think about what you are going to do to all those people who can't tank a 2000 damage or more moonburst.