Vaerhon2007-04-03 09:21:04
The art of the drawcut.
As proposed, this would be an ability in knighthood, near master, requiring empty hands and sheathed weapon(s).
It could have a use timer, like vitality, so it couldn't be spammed. 30 seconds is a tentative figure, though the set up requirements might be enough to deter spamming.
It would require 1-2 seconds of equilibrium to enter the proper meditative state before it could be executed, and would be targeted at a person at this stage. Selection of weapons and methods of attack could occur here also.
Additionally, there would be a delay while the warrior focuses themselves to full effectiveness after entering the proper mindset - tentatively fixed at around 4 seconds, with the length influenced by discipline. Moving or using balance or equilibrium would exit from the meditative state.
When unleashed, it would draw the specified weapon or weapons and deliver a slashing attack somewhere in strength between a normal strike and an assault/pulp/lunge/sweep (two, for dual-wielders) on the target, ignoring stancing, rebounding, parry, etc.
The attack's actual strength would vary depending on whether the buildup was complete. Additionally, for warrior on warrior combat, executing an iaijutsu on a foe who has primed one against you would trigger their iaijutsu simultaneously, giving an edge to warriors who complete their focusing faster. This might or might not be extended to trigger at full strength,even with buildup incomplete, on any non-iaijutsu warrior attack that hits after priming is complete, depending on balance considerations.
The choice of attack has two effects. First, it governs what general area the attack executes upon - you can't guarantee where, precisely, but you can pick with the same sort of generality as when slashing. Second, when iaijutsu meets iaijutsu, it alters the effects in a manner similar to debating. If high, medium, low were the choices, then high might crush medium and be crushed by low, for example, so that the warrior executing a high iaijutsu does an additional x% and parries the one doing a medium iaijutsu. Given that there are up to 8 swings, depending on how you count, there could be many choices.
As an alternative to a rock-paper-scissors 3 option system, a five option one might be interesting: slice, swipe, slash, hack up and hack down would be the five. Each would be crushing against one, strong against another, weak to a third, and crushed by fourth, with slice, swipe, and slash being randomly to the left or to the right.
At the coder's option, the infliction/affliction of a iaijutsu strike might be slightly delayed to better imitate those duels where two foes pause, both frozen after the unthinkably fast exchange, and then one or both falls.
I do not intend to disturb overall balance in the least with this. I do hope that it would offer a mechanic for a brief pause before warrior duels, enough to speak a few words, as well as providing a dramatic and strategic way to open a fight. Indeed, on certain stylized occasions, one might fight an entire duel as a succession of iaijutsu passes, uttering an epigram at each pass. Or howl of bloodthirsty rage, depending.
Ideas? Comments?
As proposed, this would be an ability in knighthood, near master, requiring empty hands and sheathed weapon(s).
It could have a use timer, like vitality, so it couldn't be spammed. 30 seconds is a tentative figure, though the set up requirements might be enough to deter spamming.
It would require 1-2 seconds of equilibrium to enter the proper meditative state before it could be executed, and would be targeted at a person at this stage. Selection of weapons and methods of attack could occur here also.
Additionally, there would be a delay while the warrior focuses themselves to full effectiveness after entering the proper mindset - tentatively fixed at around 4 seconds, with the length influenced by discipline. Moving or using balance or equilibrium would exit from the meditative state.
When unleashed, it would draw the specified weapon or weapons and deliver a slashing attack somewhere in strength between a normal strike and an assault/pulp/lunge/sweep (two, for dual-wielders) on the target, ignoring stancing, rebounding, parry, etc.
The attack's actual strength would vary depending on whether the buildup was complete. Additionally, for warrior on warrior combat, executing an iaijutsu on a foe who has primed one against you would trigger their iaijutsu simultaneously, giving an edge to warriors who complete their focusing faster. This might or might not be extended to trigger at full strength,even with buildup incomplete, on any non-iaijutsu warrior attack that hits after priming is complete, depending on balance considerations.
The choice of attack has two effects. First, it governs what general area the attack executes upon - you can't guarantee where, precisely, but you can pick with the same sort of generality as when slashing. Second, when iaijutsu meets iaijutsu, it alters the effects in a manner similar to debating. If high, medium, low were the choices, then high might crush medium and be crushed by low, for example, so that the warrior executing a high iaijutsu does an additional x% and parries the one doing a medium iaijutsu. Given that there are up to 8 swings, depending on how you count, there could be many choices.
As an alternative to a rock-paper-scissors 3 option system, a five option one might be interesting: slice, swipe, slash, hack up and hack down would be the five. Each would be crushing against one, strong against another, weak to a third, and crushed by fourth, with slice, swipe, and slash being randomly to the left or to the right.
At the coder's option, the infliction/affliction of a iaijutsu strike might be slightly delayed to better imitate those duels where two foes pause, both frozen after the unthinkably fast exchange, and then one or both falls.
I do not intend to disturb overall balance in the least with this. I do hope that it would offer a mechanic for a brief pause before warrior duels, enough to speak a few words, as well as providing a dramatic and strategic way to open a fight. Indeed, on certain stylized occasions, one might fight an entire duel as a succession of iaijutsu passes, uttering an epigram at each pass. Or howl of bloodthirsty rage, depending.
Ideas? Comments?
Unknown2007-04-03 10:07:08
Well-written, but doesn't stick lore-wise. Not at all.
Vaerhon2007-04-03 10:21:35
QUOTE(Cuber @ Apr 3 2007, 10:07 AM) 395140
Well-written, but doesn't stick lore-wise. Not at all.
Can you elaborate?
If it's the oriental name, that's not something that's really important to it. It was just the most concise way of expressing the concept, as that's how it's often named in other game systems.
Unknown2007-04-03 10:25:23
I studied Iaijustsu for a number of years and I'd like to see nothing better than a good rendering of it in a game like this. (A good rendering, that is), but, as much as I'd like the idea, I'm not sure it fits in Lusternia.
Unknown2007-04-03 10:26:47
Kind of off-topic, well, totally off-topic, but why do sad smilie faces have bad hats?
Unknown2007-04-03 10:27:41
Bah! Crazy double posting Kaiboche!
Diamondais2007-04-03 11:19:15
QUOTE(Kaiboche @ Apr 3 2007, 06:26 AM) 395144
Kind of off-topic, well, totally off-topic, but why do sad smilie faces have bad hats?
Most of them do, we don't really understand it. We just kinda ignore the hat, supply our own or just turn them off when we post.
Vaerhon2007-04-03 11:54:58
QUOTE(Kaiboche @ Apr 3 2007, 10:25 AM) 395143
I studied Iaijustsu for a number of years and I'd like to see nothing better than a good rendering of it in a game like this. (A good rendering, that is), but, as much as I'd like the idea, I'm not sure it fits in Lusternia.
By all means, please give your thoughts on what would make it a good rendering.
And I hear that at least two people don't see this as quite fitting. But, if we have katanas, how much of a further stretch is it to have something like this?
Unknown2007-04-03 23:19:04
Well, to me Iaijustsu (portrayed the way I want ) wouldn't be just a skill that was tacked on to Knighthood or some such, it would be an part of a skillset, possibly Bujutsu, and the entire skillset would encompass bows and certain points of unarmed combat. It would end being a whole class of it's own. I'm pretty new to Lusternia itself but I'm just not seeing a whole bunch of Samurai running around here. Maybe it could work, I don't know, I haven't really been around long enough to absorb the history of the place to give an authoritative answer on that one. But yeah.... I'd love to sit down one day and work out a whole Bujutsu skillset. That would be sweet.
Vaerhon2007-04-04 00:11:09
New skillsets would certainly be nice, they do come occasionally, and the Divine have certainly mentioned that more acrobatic warriors are somewhere on the list of things intended to do somewhere. Go ahead and write it up - I'd love to see it. Even if it doesn't yield an implemented skillset soon, you could well come up with some new wounding afflictions which could be put in much sooner.
For my own part, adding a skill seemed like something that was small enough to imagine happening, if unlikely, and adding a new skillset seemed like too much to ask. I'd obviously hoped that this would draw more comments on the mechanics, balance, and rp beyond 'the rp doesn't feel quite right', but most ideas don't go anywhere, and still fewer do so immediately.
Also - does bowing need to be in the skillset? I'm all for the rp of it, but I really can't see the mechanics that would make bowing useful skill.
For my own part, adding a skill seemed like something that was small enough to imagine happening, if unlikely, and adding a new skillset seemed like too much to ask. I'd obviously hoped that this would draw more comments on the mechanics, balance, and rp beyond 'the rp doesn't feel quite right', but most ideas don't go anywhere, and still fewer do so immediately.
Also - does bowing need to be in the skillset? I'm all for the rp of it, but I really can't see the mechanics that would make bowing useful skill.
Unknown2007-04-04 00:23:48
I'm seeing this as a former student as much as a gamer. Bow was a necessary part of warriors education. Do we not have archery in Lusternia? I haven't come across it yet. I've used it (and had it used against me) in "another" IRE game and found it to be a useful little skill. Good for assassination and useful in raids IIRC.
Vaerhon2007-04-04 00:35:22
No archery in Lusternia.
Check back again later.
I understand the point about bows being part of the etiquette, and character being part of the education... I just don't see a way to integrate character and mechanics, generally.
Check back again later.
I understand the point about bows being part of the etiquette, and character being part of the education... I just don't see a way to integrate character and mechanics, generally.
Unknown2007-04-04 00:42:58
Hrrmm..... I can. It could be quite a tasty little skill. But your right, entire classes don't pop up everyday so I guess this is just a moot point. You've almost got me wanting to create a Bujutsu skillset just for the heck of it.
ETA: I was referring to bow being a nice skill, btw
ETA: I was referring to bow being a nice skill, btw
Unknown2007-04-04 09:13:00
My problem is that this method of fighting, as far as I know, was not used anywhere in the world outside of Japan. As such, if it was implemented, Samurai-related connotations would be obvious. And there aren't, and shouldn't be, any Japanese-themed things in Lusternia (because, frankly, it's very fanboyish).
Also, I do not see this happening for bonecrusher/axelord specialisations. Pureblade and Blademaster, yes. But how can you deliver a iaijutsu attack with a mace? This escapes me.
EDIT: Yes, I am aware that we have katanas. But having one weapon type is one thing, and having a skill which, if implemented, would become the standard opening for warrior combat (because it's powerful - not overpowered, but powerful enough), is another.
Also, I do not see this happening for bonecrusher/axelord specialisations. Pureblade and Blademaster, yes. But how can you deliver a iaijutsu attack with a mace? This escapes me.
EDIT: Yes, I am aware that we have katanas. But having one weapon type is one thing, and having a skill which, if implemented, would become the standard opening for warrior combat (because it's powerful - not overpowered, but powerful enough), is another.
Unknown2007-04-04 09:13:20
Doublepost.
Rybosh2007-04-11 12:09:24
QUOTE(Vaerhon @ Apr 3 2007, 07:21 PM) 395136
It would require 1-2 seconds of equilibrium to enter the proper meditative state before it could be executed, and would be targeted at a person at this stage. Selection of weapons and methods of attack could occur here also.
Additionally, there would be a delay while the warrior focuses themselves to full effectiveness after entering the proper mindset - tentatively fixed at around 4 seconds, with the length influenced by discipline. Moving or using balance or equilibrium would exit from the meditative state.
When unleashed, it would draw the specified weapon or weapons and deliver a slashing attack somewhere in strength between a normal strike and an assault/pulp/lunge/sweep (two, for dual-wielders) on the target, ignoring stancing, rebounding, parry, etc.
Additionally, there would be a delay while the warrior focuses themselves to full effectiveness after entering the proper mindset - tentatively fixed at around 4 seconds, with the length influenced by discipline. Moving or using balance or equilibrium would exit from the meditative state.
When unleashed, it would draw the specified weapon or weapons and deliver a slashing attack somewhere in strength between a normal strike and an assault/pulp/lunge/sweep (two, for dual-wielders) on the target, ignoring stancing, rebounding, parry, etc.
I don't think I'd ever use the skill given the required setup, cooldown times and standard damage. With so many drawbacks I fail to see the point.
Vaerhon2007-04-11 13:02:24
It's unlikely to be implemented, but...
It was, as proposed, basically a no power assault/sweep/double lunge/double pulp. The additional damage and bypassing of defenses are non-trivial advantages, and the lack of power cost is not to be despised. Note that the normal damage was only for an activation without going through the focusing process at all; the full process would have yielded an attack of assault strength, and the riposte if attacked interrupting it would have yielded an attack of assault strength. Activation partway through the focusing and riposting against another's use of the skill partway through your own focusing would yield an attack of intermediate strength.
The delay is a real and significant factor - the intention was that it be used only on those occasions when you have the time to speak to your foe briefly beforehand, and only repeated in a fight if a stylized duel required it. If the delay were too small, who would slice, or indeed assault, ever again?
Additionally, the part about it triggering if attacked is equally important. It would then act like a riposte - if ripostes did damage and inflicted wounds like an assault. This would permit a warrior to put it up, and then speak, secure in the knowledge that if blades come out he'll not be disadvantaged for typing his delicately worded threat. Again, a way to open a space to trade words before fighting without simply ceding initiative.
It was, as proposed, basically a no power assault/sweep/double lunge/double pulp. The additional damage and bypassing of defenses are non-trivial advantages, and the lack of power cost is not to be despised. Note that the normal damage was only for an activation without going through the focusing process at all; the full process would have yielded an attack of assault strength, and the riposte if attacked interrupting it would have yielded an attack of assault strength. Activation partway through the focusing and riposting against another's use of the skill partway through your own focusing would yield an attack of intermediate strength.
The delay is a real and significant factor - the intention was that it be used only on those occasions when you have the time to speak to your foe briefly beforehand, and only repeated in a fight if a stylized duel required it. If the delay were too small, who would slice, or indeed assault, ever again?
Additionally, the part about it triggering if attacked is equally important. It would then act like a riposte - if ripostes did damage and inflicted wounds like an assault. This would permit a warrior to put it up, and then speak, secure in the knowledge that if blades come out he'll not be disadvantaged for typing his delicately worded threat. Again, a way to open a space to trade words before fighting without simply ceding initiative.
Aiakon2007-04-11 13:47:46
QUOTE(Vaerhon @ Apr 11 2007, 02:02 PM) 397627
This would permit a warrior to put it up, and then speak, secure in the knowledge that if blades come out he'll not be disadvantaged for typing his delicately worded threat. Again, a way to open a space to trade words before fighting without simply ceding initiative.
I like this.
Vaerhon2007-04-12 01:34:04
That part was the core of the whole proposal - a space to talk in or before battle. Everything else was trying to find a way to make it useful, balanced, and interesting without being mandatory. Given the fact that a drawcut concept works well only for pureblades I don't see it going in.
Come to it, though, would there be the same kinds of concerns about lore and rp if the skill involved merely involved poising oneself for an attack? That is something that could be equally well done with axe, blade, or bludgeon, and the flavor text could be made to fit each specialization.
Cuber? Aiakon?
Come to it, though, would there be the same kinds of concerns about lore and rp if the skill involved merely involved poising oneself for an attack? That is something that could be equally well done with axe, blade, or bludgeon, and the flavor text could be made to fit each specialization.
Cuber? Aiakon?
Verithrax2007-04-18 06:30:40
Let me butt in.
How about this:
DrawReflex: Reflexively draw a weapon.
Usage: SET DRAW REFLEX
This would put up a defense that would trigger whenever an aggressive action is performed on the user, causing him to react with a particular manoeuvre, knighthood attack, etc. It would automatically and instantly draw the weapon in the first scabbard being worn by the character, or the first two, in case of blademasters (I strongly oppose bonecrusher and axelords ever getting any variation on this; it's just vastly too silly and implausible). Limits on which knighthood skills and manoeuvres would be allowed are left as an exercise to the reader.
How about this:
DrawReflex: Reflexively draw a weapon.
Usage: SET DRAW REFLEX
This would put up a defense that would trigger whenever an aggressive action is performed on the user, causing him to react with a particular manoeuvre, knighthood attack, etc. It would automatically and instantly draw the weapon in the first scabbard being worn by the character, or the first two, in case of blademasters (I strongly oppose bonecrusher and axelords ever getting any variation on this; it's just vastly too silly and implausible). Limits on which knighthood skills and manoeuvres would be allowed are left as an exercise to the reader.