I find dual wielding kind of dumb. People running around with swords and maces over their head, screaming like crazy while they hack over and over at poor innocent people.

Think about it.

We need some type of skill or coding implementation that will give people who want to hold both a sword and a shield in a battle a better chance.


1. Have a skill in Combat or Knighthood (probably knighthood due to the shield-wielding mages) that will increase your shield blocking rate, or possibly increase your armor rating when you hold a shield. This would also make the Bonecrusher's shield breaking ability a bit more useful in battle than just a grief tactic.

2. Code arm proficiency, so that you have a main hand and an offhand. The offhand weapon would have reduced damage and precision.

3. Have a Guardian specialization for Knighthood that incorporates shield attack skills and single-handed weapon skills.

4. Have 'reflective' shields, that can be enchanted to drain a warrior's power reserves into a partial absorption or reflection magic.


All these could help bring shield-bearing warriors into Lusternia, and balance a defensive combat style with an offensive combat style. While there would still be place in Lusternia for the dual-wield fanatics, combat with shields would find a new nook in the wonderful combat of the Iron Realms MUDs.

Speaking from the standpoint of a knight, this would be a difficult change in a couple of ways.

One, all the weapons are the same, varying in stats depending on the quality of the forging job, and the skillrank of the forger. There would have to be some major tweaking to stats for shieldwielders... this is usually achieved by just making one race able to gain a specialization stat change, but the fact that one sword one shield is weak enough already, not many people would want to be limited to only one race to be 'good'. If there wasn't a stat change, there would have to be a weapon change, making only certain weapons usable by shieldbearers, which is undesirable as it limits the customized look of the weapon, and adds to the already large hulk of weapon types.

Being a Bonecrusher, I wish that shieldbash was more effective and useful, and as much as I want something to be able to use it on frequently, I understand that there isn't a good possibility that a fair shieldbearing skill could be added.

I would LOVE to see your idea go into effect, if only it was easy to create. If they find a way, then hell yeah!

1. How would increasing the likelihood of shieldparries occurring, or making shields increase your "armor rating", make ShieldSmash any less of a "grief tactic"?

2. Why? Existing warriors don't need to be nerfed anymore.

3. A "Guardian" specialization for Knighthood would be pointless and/or overpowered. Attacking with a shield would be just like attacking with another weapon, which would defeat the idea behind the skillset. Defending others with your shield would be too good, because said others can already protect themselves with their shields.

4. Um...No, thanks.



The two-hander specializations (arguably) still need work. You do know about Axelords and Pureblades, right? Not everyone is a "dual-wield fanatic". Also, let's not forget that this has probably been suggested numerous times, in the past.

duh. shields give you an AC bonus. /hijack

Shields can be really good if you use them properly.

One example i can think of right away is to blow power on your crush/lunge @target head, then switch to shield and shieldstun/smitedown. I used to get kills like that all the time, it's a nice way to kill someone in 4 combos.


As for suggestions i would like to have a shieldbash style attack added into knighthood. It would basically annoy a mob so much that the mob would exclusivley attack you for maybe the next 3 attacks. Would bring a bit more strategy into fighting supernals instead of just one big zerg.

Maybe give it a "daze" effect too so it would make players walk slower in and out of rooms (for chasing purposes) and perhaps couple it in with making all mana abilities costing double.

EDIT: If it's going to be a shieldblock ability, then it should be a 5 power buff, and allows you a 20% chance to block ANY incoming damage (put the shield in the way of an incoming staffpoint/magic attack) for 5 charges.

Very much liked. It's always bothered me that a staffblast can't be blocked by thick metal. Perhaps other than blocking ALL DAMAGE as suggested wielding a shield could offer a % reduction instead. Put a defense in Combat that lets you focus on blocking incoming attacks with your shield, like you said, and perhaps give it "focus charges" in a manner similar to the Fool tarot, in that it only lasts for so many hits.


This makes sense in that it's very difficult to concentrate on blocking when under assault by many people (i.e. group combat) so the defense would fall faster, but is still very appropriate for 1v2 or 1v1 combat. Then the only question is how long it should last.


Alternatively (but not my preferred method) is that it could be time-based duration, similar to numen, but probably not as extreme. Something along the lines of "You imbue your shield with power to enhance its blocking capabilities."

Won't someone think of the Pureblades?

And the Axelords?

The pulp/lunge / shieldstun hack/smite down technique sounds quite interesting.

Well, then let the pureblades and axelords be able to wield ONE sword in one hand, except it will drain endurance/lower the stats/both. Then you can wield your shield until they yield in the battlefield.

I'd like to see a shield and polearm spec.

Like... at the same time or two different specs? Shield and spear at once would not really... work, right? Like Greek centurion style?

Shields and polearms do work together, and were once the style of fighting.

There's a whole thread on shield and spear, hoplite style, a week or so back. Zulu or Roman models are not, so far as I know, under discussion.

Really, the whole idea of the spear/shield spec is madness.

I can probably sig up some logs of that technique working.

You can do it dual wield too if you use knockdown smitedown instead of shieldstun smitedown, but it's more pronne to error because of stancing. If you look on this forum (if you can't find it i'll post it again) of a 4shot combo working on narsrim to perfection. I've also pulled it off on various people here and there.

Shieldstun/hit is also very useful if you have someone crucified, to prevent them getting off you shieldstun/wind until you have them winded enough to switch back to double winds to maintain balance loss then sacrifice.

EDIT: If you look at homer's works (specifically the Odyssey but also in the illiad) the prefered method of combat was sword and shield. Check out the massacre of the suitors (i'll post link if people are really interested) for a decription. For the less literary minded cast your mind back to the movie Troy (which was based loosley off the book, many discrepencacies which are artistic licence related)

This is said to have occured between 2000bc and 700bc, and while the works may well be fiction they are obviously based off Homer's perception of combat at the time, which interestingly a lot of references from gods, locations and words can be linked to achaea (the ire game, but homer also called come greeks achaeans). Even the achaean (ire game) god system is very similair to the gods in Homer's works.

But this is Lusternia, our entire combat system, code, and political system is massively advanced and technologically superior compared to boring old Achaea or Aetolia.

I wanna attach a shield rune to my 2handedweapon that will give me a reason to trans combat... >.>

Link them. Anywhere, anytime, at the slightest excuse. And following my own advice...

...just because they were within arm's reach, from the Fagles Iliad, 20:488-545.

Things to look for, from a Lusternian perspective - Apollo clearly reflecting Hector, decapitations, kneecap, furrowbrow, an example of what an overpowered demigod warrior would like, and examples of how to properly shout at one's foes.

But Hector, his helmet flashing, never flinched:
"Don't think for a moment, Achilles, son of Peleus,
you can frighten me with words like a child, a fool -
I'm an old hand myself at trading taunts and insults.
Well I know you are brave, and I am far weaker.
True - but all lies in the lap of the great gods.
Weaker I am, but I still might take your life
with one hurl of a spear - my weapon can cut too,
long before now its point has found its mark!"
Grim reminder -
he brandished the shaft and hurled with all his might
but Athena blew it back from Achilles bent on glory -
a quick light breath and the shaft flew back again
to tall Prince Hector and fell before his feet.
Achilles blazed, charging, raging to cut him down,
loosing savage cries - but Phoebus whisked him away,
easy work for a god, and wrapped him round in mist.
Three times the brilliant runner Achilles charged him,
lunged with his bronze spear, three times he slashed at cloud -
then at Achilles' fourth assault like something superhuman
his terrifying voice burst out in winging words:
"Now, again, you've escaped your death, you dog,
but a good close brush with death it was, I'd say!
Now, again, your Phoebus Apollo pulls you through
the one you pray to, wading into our storm of spears.
We'll fight again - I'll finish you off next time
if one of the gods will only urge me on as well.
But now I'll go for the others, anyone I can catch."
Whirling,
he stabbed Dryops, speared him right through the neck -
he dropped at his feet and Achilles left him dead
and smashed Demuchus' knee, Philetor's strapping son,
stopped him right in his tracks with a well-flung spear
then sprang with his great sword and ripped his life away.
Then on he rushed at the sons of Bias - Laogonus, Dardanus -
hurled them off their chariot, slammed them both to ground,
one with a spear-thrust, one chopped down with a blade.
Then Tros, Alastor's son, crawled to Achilles' knees
and clutched them, hoping he'd spare him,
let Tros off alive, no cutting him down in blood,
he'd pity Tros, a man of his own age - the young fool,
he'd no idea, thinking Achilles could be swayed!
Here was a man not sweet at heart, not kind, no,
he was raging, wild - as Tros grasped his knees,
desperate, begging, Achilles slit open his liver,
the liver spurted loose, gushing with dark blood,
drenched his lap and the night swirled down his eyes
as his life breath slipped away.
And Mulius next -
he reared and jammedhis lance through the man's ear
so the lance came jutting out through the other ear,
bronze point glinting.
Echeclus son of Agenor next -
Achilles split his head at the brow with hilted sword
so the whole blade ran hot with blood, and red death
came plunging down his eyes, and the strong force of fate.
Deucalion next - he lanced his arm with a bronze-shod spear,
he spitted the Trojan through where the elbow-tendons grip
and there he stood, waiting Achilles, arm dangling heavy,
staring death in the face - and Achilles chopped his neck
and his sword sent head and helmet flying off together
and marrow bubbling up from the clean-cut neckbone.

Fagles Odyssey, 22:285-324 - spear and sword combat both.

And again the suitors hurled their whetted shafts
but Athena sent the better part of the salvo wide -
one of them hit the jamb of the great hall's doors,
another the massive door itself, and the heavy bronze point
of a third ashen javelin crashed against the wall.
True, Amphimedon nicked Telemachus on the wrist -
the glancing bladejust barely broke his skin.
Ctesippus sent a long spear sailing over
Eumaeus' buckler, grazing his shoulder blade
but the weapon skittered off and hit the ground.
And again those led by the brilliant battle-master
hurled their razor spears at the suitor's ranks -
and now Odysseus raider of cites hit Eurydamas,
Telemachus hit Amphimedon - Eumaeus, Polybus -
and the cowherd stabbed Ctesippus
right in the man's chest and triumphed over his body:
"Love your mockery, do you? Son of that blowhard Polytherses!
No more shooting off your mouth, you idiot, such big talk -
leave the last word to the gods - they're much stronger!
Take this spear, this guest-gift, for the cow's hoof
you once gave King Odysseus begging in his house!"

So the master of longhorn cattle had his say -
as Odysseus, fighting at close quarters, ran Agelaus
through with a long lance - Telemachus speared Leocritus
so deep in the groin the bronze came punching out his back
and the man crashed headfirst, slamming the ground full-face.
And now Athena, looming out the rafters high above them,
brandished her man-destroying shield of thunder, terrifying
the suitors out of their minds, and down the hall they panicked -
wild, like herds stampeding, driven mad as the darting gadfly
strikes in the late spring when the long days come round.
The attackers struck like eagles, crook-clawed, hook-beaked,
swooping down from a mountain ridge to harry smaller birds
that skim across the flatland, cringing under the clouds
but the eagles plunge in fury, rip their lives out - hopeless,
never a chance of flight or rescure - and people love the sport -
so the attackers routed suitors headlong down the hall,
wheeling into the slaughter, slashing left and right
and grisly screams broke from skulls cracked open -
the whole floor awash with blood.
Leodes now -
he flung himself at Odysseus, clutched his knees,
crying out to the king with asudden, winging prayer:
"I hug your knees, Odysseus - mercy! spare my life!
Never, I swear, did I harass any woman in your house -
never a word, a gesture - nothing, no, I tried
to restrain the suitors, whoever did such things.
They wouldn't listen, keep their hands to themselves -
so reckless, so they earn their shameful fate.
But I was just their prophet -
my hands are clear - and I'm to die their death!
Look at the thanks I get for years of service!"

A killing look, and the wry soldier answered,
"Only a priest, a prophet for this mob, you say?
How hard you must have prayed in my own house
that the heady day of my return would never dawn -
my dear wife would be yours, would bear your children!
For that there's no escape from grueling death - you die!

And snatching up in one powerful hand a sword
left on the ground - Agelaus dropped it when he fell -
Odysseus hacked the prophet square across the neck
and the praying head went tumbling in the dust.

@Ildaudid Yes - a shield rune for 2-handers. And swifter balance on the shieldstuns to make up for the fact it shuts down our whole offense.

Of course. This, however, is a tactic when you use two weapons and switch to one weapon and shield when you need the shieldstun, and I think the original poster's idea was to make wielding a shield and weapon *all the time* viable.

Let me guess, playing a lot of WoW lately? Daze and shieldblock sound good, but annoying/tanking a denizen could be too powerful. Could.



GREEK CENTURION?! Don't mess up Greeks and Romans. Please...


Basically, the problem with using just one, one-handed weapon is that you are not able to make enough wounds/damage for the enemy to even notice (excluding combat newbies). There would be two possible solutions for a sword-and-board fighter:
1. Letting them make wounds/damage with a shield. That feels kinda stupid, because a shield is supposed to be used for defensive purposes mainly.
2. Making the one-handed weapon deal as much damage as two one-handed ones, or slightly less than one two-handed. That's just imbalanced. And no, a 50% bonus to damage and wounding wouldn't be enough. That's too weak.

Basically, the sword-n-board fighter would either not make enough wounding/damage to an enemy as other specialisations, which would be too weak to be offset by the additional offensive/defensive capabilities of his shield, or WOULD make as much damage/wounding as other specs, in which case it would be overpowered, with the additional things he can do with the shield.

I blame Lusternia's design, where damage/wounding/afflictions in the battle are very "fluid" - if you don't deal them fast enough, the enemy will simply cure them all in no time. As such, there is a strict rate of DPS (damage-per-second, using WoW terms) that you have to deal, if you deal less then the enemy will heal faster than you damage.


EDIT: I wouldn't count on Troy as the movie, the most effective weapon there were flaming balls of hay! Better read the Iliad, as Murph suggested.



EDIT 2: I have it! I HAVE A WAY TO (possibly) MAKE THIS BALANCED! Coming up soon, I have to work on the details.



FINAL EDIT: Here goes!

Basically, the specialisation would be based on opportunity. That is, quick strikes which hurt more (read: hurt as a two-hander/2 one-handers) because you hit when the enemy has an opening in their defenses. And why do they have an opening? Because of your shield, of course!

I am not going to post this ability-per-ability. Most abilities would be more-or-less generic affliction-givers anyway. Punctured throat, stabbed lung, stinky feet... things like that. I will focus on several abilities that will make this spec distinct instead.

1. ShieldBlock. Stealing from Murphy, who stole it from WoW. Changing the effect though - it costs 1-3 power, and gives you a short-term defense (shouldn't last long than 30 seconds, but less than 10 is too short. Thinking 15-20). When you get attacked, there is a chance dependant on your skill level (no less than 50% for Master, about 80-90% for Trans) that the attack gets nullified - like Timeslip from Cosmic, but with an appropriate shield-blocky description. You saw 300, you know shields can block EVERYTHING . After the attack gets blocked, the defense vanishes. If the attack doesn't get blocked, defense is still there, waiting for the next attack, or for its cooldown to expire. Oh, and using ShieldBlock uses up arm balance for your shield.

2. Retributive Strike. Lame name, can't think of anything better at the moment. A high-ranked ability. This works passively - gives you a defense that lasts for ~10-15 seconds AFTER you succesfully Block (see skill above) OR Parry (normal parry) an attack. While the defense is active, your hits with a one-handed weapon deal double damage/wounding, putting up the offensive capabilities of the sword'n'boarded in par with other specs. To prevent abuse (dual-wielding after this effect kicks in), doesn't work if you unwield your shield.
My idea about this skill is that it should put the offense at a normal warrior level, but not without any effort - this effort being burning up power for ShieldBlock, or an enemy being a newb and hitting your parried area repeatedly.

3. Lunge-equivalent. Costs 3-4 power (not 2, you'll see why). As powerful as lunge/crush equivalent, BUT deals double damage/wounding if the enemy is stunned. This makes a ShieldStun/Lunge combo deal as much damage as two lunges/assault from other specs, while STILL using two hands. Depending on if you consider one attack (less chance for afflictions/poisons) much weaker than two or not, it can cost 3 or 4 power. Hmm, probably 4, because this Lunge-thingy would be VERY powerful when couped up with Retribu... Lamename Strike. But that's the point, because this spec's offensive output is rather weak normally!

4. Of course, they will have ShieldSmash (edit: not ShieldStun, no such ability!) and ShieldRiposte somewhere in their skillset. Maybe even an Improved ShieldSmash, giving a chance to prone the enemy, like per Headslam. But that could be too much.

5. ShieldBash, to "daze" players (hello, World of Warcraft!). As per Murphy's post. Don't think it really needs power, it's just to prevent them from escaping.

6. Maybe an ability to increase their chance to parry attacks with a shield. Would give a small increase (5%? 10%? 10's probably too much) to parry attacks on EVERY location.

7. If this would be a shield-and-polearm (THIS IS SPARTA!!! ) specialisation, perhaps an ability to hold the enemy "at bay" - something along the lines of delivering a normal (read: weak) blow to an enemy when they attack? Doesn't work always, procs rather rarely - 15-20%, probably less.

Yeh i been playing wow heaps lately heh.

and OMG another fan of homer's works, a man after my own heart. I'm currently in the process of re-reading the illiad and the odyssey, got my hands on E.V. Rieu's translations, which i prefer because it's more in story form as opposed to verse.

I've not yet read the Rieu, and will have to make the time to do so at some point.

It's hard for me to conceive of them as anything but poetry, and remarkable poetry at that, though I do appreciate the translation difficulties present in any translation of poetry and understand why Rieu made the choice he did.

We could do far, far worse in Lusternia than emulate his heroes.

I had a shot at reading the Pope version and I didn't find myself getting into the story, same with the butler version.


If you go to guhtenberg (speelling?) .org you can find some free translations of lots of different works of literature.