I like the perma rift into the cats. Before it, it was too easy for Magnagora to absolutely control them, allowing only them and no one else access. Really don't think Celest should be allowed to utterly control it now, I like it the way it is. And yes, with the cat quest being 'broken' or at least with it possible to be set to such a way that you can't pass through the second level to the bottom.. the perma rift is necessary.

I'd only be concered if there was a rift from prime to SerenEth, or prime GlomEth.. basically anything neutral to area-you-have-to-defend.

Honestly, if they wouldn't try to raise shrines, and treat the catacombs like civilized players treat astral (which of course will never happen) I could care less if they were in there. I walk past Nico in the catacombs all the time, while we are bashing. But don't call out to arms to arms!! Now if someone else sees him and screams it, yeah I have to help, but if not, we are both content bashing there.


And a little rant! I hate lag, got pwned so bad, and I couldnt even target anyone, I did manage to get a HI in before trying to target gooooo me!!

Raising shrines tends to be a mute point as Magnagora built a shrine to Morgfyre in the lower level sometime yesterday which replaced one that had been there for quite some time but was dusted. In addition, there is a shrine to Raezon in the second level. According to your logic, it would be Magnagorian players whom are not treating the catacombs like civilized players.

The permanent rift should stay really. The catacombs is a great bashing place and shouldn't be able to be completely blocked off by whatever group has additional rifts at any given time.

@Iladudid: You're not going to seriously try to say Mag was gracious about allowing Celestians to bash the catacombs are you?

Appears he used to let Nico bash. Fair enough.

I didn't.

But hey ho.

Umm a Morgfyre shrine was raised because you all made a Terentia shrine, that we had to wipe off, before that, ask people who had been bashing catacombs for ages, there were no other shrines, except way back when Narsrim and I kept a daily tally and laughing who had control of the catacombs. (Then Narsrim musta took some crank or something cuz he didn't log off one night, and we had a hell of a time gettin them back that night )



Actually yes, but Aiakon pointed that out for me above, some celestians, not all... depended on the person (mainly if they could survive and not be caught in there causing me to have to go defend, and of course I would chase out people who are just plain retarded (no not you ceren, just liked fighting ya in there) ), and of course Lizzy always nice enough to ask, some people complained, but it was simple as don't touch Lizzy in the catacombs.

edit - I think it should be open for all people, but with Korath in there, and some fools who feel the need to kill him, it seems it can't be. (And yea I said fools because enemying yourself there is silly, I know tosha blessing is better, but cata blessing can be easier and if you release orcs it messes with other orgs commodity production slightly)

I always liked the rifts. Kept things interesting, made movement easier for everyone.

I didn't even know the permanent rifts still existed. I thought they went *poof*! Why am I in Catacombs each night instead of my manse, decorating...

The elemental lords are insanely easy to slay, that's rubbish Talkan with and without rifts.

To address your snippet of a reply, I'll relate some opinions regarding the permanent rifts. I classify the rifts into two categories: Catacombs of the Dead rift, and all other rifts. For those who are unfamiliar with the Catacombs and thusly cannot see the stark differences from which I chose to classify as I did, the Catacombs rift provides the best and easiest entry to the area as opposed to the others. The other rifts have cubix exits, aetherdocks, and other ways to enter with relative ease. Catacombs do not. In fact, there are not many who have earned their way to the bottom level as we all had to in the beginning. That said, I really am indifferent about all the other rifts. They allow people easy access to raid and travel the planes, and simply another way to access enemy areas personally.

I think the Catacombs need to be changed (I'll wait a bit for any more half decent replies before I propose my changes) because currently it's just a source of OOC grief. If non-Magnagorans would just hunt there and leave like astral there would be no problems, and oocly I think everyone should be able to hunt there for balance purposes. However, such will never occur.



Without trying to be insulting, this post lacks any sense of perspective whatsoever. The Catacombs are exactly an "area-you-have-to-defend" to the Ur'Guard. While you may like it, the back and forth "control" struggle is just silly. I'd rather have the old conflict quests than have to deal with "Message from kid-- Hey guess what we lost the cats again."

I take your point about there being other means of getting most places connected by permanent rifts. The redundancy argument tells more on the other rifts than it does on the catacombs rift, and I think I would prefer those rifts not permanent, and leave them to be gatewoven or not by defenders.

Whether the catacombs rift should also be be eliminated depends on how else access may be gained. I think I would prefer a tweaked quest entry and no permanent rift, but I would like to hear what suggestions you have on it, and also why you think that OOCly, it will never be freely huntable. Magnagoran RP?

Yes it is Ur'Guard RP, and by extension Magnagoran RP to safeguard it and control it. Tweaking the quest to get to the bottom level is not the answer. I happen to think that it is utterly perfect (except the inability to unlock the second level when accidentally sealed off-- quick fix, when you unlock the second level from the first one exit of the second level stairwell unlocks *wink wink Admins*) Anyway, that's why it will not be freely hunted like gorgogs or astral. Personally (oocly that is, ic I can't obviously), I couldn't care less if outsiders hunt there because enemies know going in there that it is dangerous and if spotted which is highly likely they will be ganked in short order. The problem comes when retards demesne the whole place and then we have endless player made "rift wars" as I call them, where it goes back and forth of breaking and making rifts to establish control.

At first impulse my idea to fix the monotonous and quite burdening nonsense that the Ur'Guard have to deal with, while making things fair on a mechanical standpoint, was to have the local area shielded from all forms of entry (entry only) except the permanent rift (pyramids, rifts, hermits, spores, teleport, tesseract, etc.), disallow melds, and then make the perm rift non-distortable. Some IC support for this change is easily explained- the ancient ur'guard were quite strong and certainly badass, Urlach's power, etc etc. Back to the point, this would allow all to hunt there with equality, which makes things happy and neat from a mechanical standpoint. However, that in itself poses a problem, because that place serves a significant role in Ur'Guard life. Objectively, Ur'Guard should automatically control it in some way or another, but I understand the complaint about inequality regarding hunting areas because it certainly is a good place for that.

While I can guess Magnagoran/Ur'Guard enemies will cry when I suggest this, but I will anyway because it fits perfectly with RP and really isn't unbalancing in any way: What if the Ur'Guard had a magical transport into the Catacombs to a new secret location below the third level, or even to the third level itself, which ONLY they could use/access in any way? I think that would be really neat. It gives the Ur'Guard a means to defend it, but certainly does not assure control because of enemy rifts/etc. Note that this doesn't solve the endless rift wars, but perhaps combined with some of the above it can help. Summarily, the back and forth has to be one of the most annoying things for a Magnagoran to deal with-- It's like being forced to do hard and pointless conflict quests.

Other idea: Rift could stay and be undistortable. So no one could take control over it.

EDIT: Meh, ninja'ed.

Game fun has to trump RP. With so few bashing places for higher levels in the game, it's really unfeasible for any group to claim that such a large and important area is their's to control or safeguard for RP purposes. Celest has RP reasons to claim pretty much all of Bondero and the Isles there as under their protection given the history of the place and the quests that can be done there to hurt Celest. Terentians will defend the Merians there but there's never been a push to kill people for hunting gorgogs. This is more because such RP would be exceedingly boring and frustrating to attempt to carry out and harmful to the game as a whole than any sort of moral higher ground or anything. Just because I have a RP reason to kill someone for bashing something doesn't mean I should do so. (Yes, I know some Celestians will kill people for hunting Aslaran's if they're Aslaran, that's really not my point)

I can see how it would be frustrating to have some RP about ownership of an area and then have people decide to challenge your ownership of that. However, at some point it was bound to happen. The Catacombs are just too good and after enough Celestians get ganked there while hunting, chances are high there will be a reaction. I personally find the rift wars entertaining but that's just me.

I'd be in favor of only the permanent rift into the catacombs without it being able to be distorted and no other access into them except through completing the quest. No special access for the Ur'guard. If the Ur'guard spent a lot of time doing something RP related there maybe but it honestly seems the majority of time there is spent bashing so I'm not really sure it's appropriate to be given a special access into a good bashing ground simply becaue the Ur'guard have RP ties with the Catacombs. The Paladins have RP ties there too Not as strong naturally as the Paladins never particularly were thrilled with the existence of the Ur'Guard but it could be spun into something if we really wanted to. Which we don't.

1) Agreed. You're forgetting however that for all the reasons I have already explained, it is NOT fun.
2) Some Celestians defend Merians habitually.
3) Celestians run the risk of being ganked anywhere, as do all combatants/raiders/annoying people. It happens every day in "neutral" territory.
4) I think you find the rift wars entertaining because you have never been on the other side to deal with it. I'm not sure if you even remember Narsrim and the older crew doing the same nonsense maybe 1.5 years ago?
5) Saying the Paladins have ties there is just silly, and you know it.

More to follow.

What other side of it? The side of having our rifts unraveled on a daily basis? It's pretty the same on both sides except you take it more personally due to the RP reasons the Ur'Guard have created.

Having one rift, non-distortable and permanent would makes things fair across the board. The Ur'Guard would still have ready access to go and gank whoever they want in the name of RP without getting special access to one of the best bashing spots in the game and the rift wars would stop. Problem solved.

Carai Caroo (sp?).

Hard to find. Good bashing. V. difficult to get to. If you're gemless, you will be seen and chased the moment you get into the inner sea.

Analagous, no?




..

The Cacophonists could have close RP ties to the Supernals. Not as stong naturally, as the Cacophones were never particularly thrilled with the existence of the Celestines, but it could be spun into something if they really wanted to. Which they don't.

...Carai Caroo? Good bashing? The kelpies must be -incredible- (I can't hit 'em, being Seren) since the rest of it is utterly worthless for anyone close to level 80...

Au contraire. I get a % and a half from emptying that place. And I get about that from the Catacombs. All much of a muchness.

I suppose it is mainly the kelpies. And that % and a half is a guess - haven't been there for a few levels.. I keep getting scryed in the Inner Sea and find myself having to fleeee.

Basically I think spores, hermits should not be allowed to sit in shops for the sole purpose of trying to control the catacombs nor do I think there should be rifts allowed to be made there period. Now, hear me out, I think you need to earn the right to hunt there. But that would take 2 things:

1: Stop and fix garshades; they are the most insanely OP denzien I have ever fought strictly because you can have the thing one swing away from dead and it healthleeches from you back to full health. This problem is a very big one, since they tend to healthleech every 3-5 swings (6-10 for BM's and BC's) and guess that would equate to 2-3 eq balances for the rest? With the amount the healthleech you need 3-5 straight GOOD crits to even try to solo them and keep them dead.

2: Fix the bug on the second level that makes it so you can't get down.


With both of these fixed, people can go from the top, down to the bottom and do the quest or bash if they choose, Now the upside of working your way down, you can then open a gate to one of your villages and keep it open instead of killing that gate keeper, that will give you the advantage of keeping the catacombs, once you have your rift open, keep it open, and there is no need to weave there.

Of course people will be able to port/tess to catacombs but solving a programming problem with a permanent rift was not the best idea. I really think you need to earn your stripes to get to the final level. Trust me, it is hard and seeing it handed to so many people (Magnagorans included) is just kind of a sad thing to see.

Hell it's been so long now I will have to refresh my memory on the second level to get to the third

/agree