So basically you agree that instead of fixing a bug, a rift should just be thrown up to give people access to the 3rd level of the catacombs, the level that everyone when there were no rifts had to actually work to get to?

Yeah.

I like some of the ideas thrown out there..

1) No new rifts be makeable.. old one poofed..
2) You have to do the quest to get in
3) fix garshades

Maybe change the way in to top level as well? So you dont need take the little ones orcs to get in.

Rift wars are never fun, and I couldnt care less who 'controls' it. I go to bash, unless someone is just coming to slay gatekeepers who have a bit of RP to em in themselves I ignore it. Argilent would go there before the whole rift war. Someone went after him he left.. simple as that. If I go in and see someone, if I dont think it will just be a jumping I will bash, I only bother acting on it if I think they are low enough to try to jump me while fighting a gar.

There are exceptions, due to the whole rift wars thing (started awhile back, I dont always do it right now but I do here and there) I may announce intruders if I scout em from prime, not so I can grief them but because it makes sense to the RP. If we could all bash there or if things werent so messed up (I agree no one should have ever been able to take control and keep it but a perma rift is also a bad way to try to address it).

Yeah.

Because:

A) Bashing through level 1 and 2 takes a lot of time, and is to do.

B.) The quest is 'ed up and has been since the area was introduced thus making it possible to completely seal off the last level. Hence the rift to the last level is fine.

C) There's not enough 'ing bashing places. If you take the last level of the cats away people will just flood the Grey Moores and gorgogs EVEN MORE. Not everyone can tank astral now. There's a huge lack of bashing places from level ~30 onwards to a level where you can do astral easily (depends on class and credits too after all). Also, with insanity you can't bash there all the time anymore.

PS: And actually I think there's not really much you can do at 21 right after Newton in terms of bashing. Best thing to get the first 10 levels would be pilgrims / scholars and then whore grey moores / elemental up to 60-70. Grey Moores is pretty much the only area where you can make gold during these levels too (not counting org specific quests, but only Mag has a decent one there. Celest's sucks, Glom's sucks WORST (no gold for shadows I believe) and Seren's is so-so.)

What? Celest's newbie quest is insanely good. Novices can level easier there than pretty much anywhere else, unless it was nerfed recently.

I was rating them after the gold gain actually. Can't remember the exact figures for Celest's though.. and I believe as level 21 you can pretty much bash spectres non stop, add the tome honour quest and you got a -really- nice exp -and- gold gain.

Ooooh... how exactly are they broken? I recently went down there for the first time and didn't think it was too tough until I ran into two garshades. Damn thing's leeching attack does 2000+ damage to me and completely heals them! I got all depressed when that happened and just went back to killing linked urns - much less scary and irritating.

Oh, fair enough then. (I wasn't disputing the efficiency of the Magnagoran one though, but Celest's is far better than Seren's and Glom's.)

Exactly. And you won't find garshades on the bottom level. Which is why the perma rift should stay. The other two levels are c.e.n.s.o.r to bash through.

EDIT: I hate automatic censoring. I can censor myself just fine if I need to.

EDIT2: Bolded it too! Die automatic censor!

EDIT3: Unfortunately, the mods are going to have to manually censor you now.

EDIT4: .... I'll start swearing comic style then! -> £@§& YOU!!!!!!

Glom has actually two newbie quests.
One is the Shadows, the other one is the oozes which can net you 2k gold easily, if you remember to only get 3 pustules at first. Though I do agree, Spectres are awesomeage Karma.

Oozes will have to wait till at least circle 20-25 to be doable. Unless you are willing to splurge on lots of healing potions.

Or you could be Tae'dae and kill oozes at level 9

Wrong.

Another idea I had was to remove all gardead from the bottom level, put the rift on the middle level, and work from there. It doesn't solve the basic problems though, being: 1) Celestians would still be asshats and try to take over the bottom level anyway and 2) I'll be damned from having to do the quest each time to get to the bottom. It's too much work.

I say put the perma rift at the top or middle level, people can't expect to be handed everything to them (well except for one org, who demands they are spoonfed). Maybe don't take it down, but move it. and fix the second level.

@shadow: If you haven't noticed only a few celestians survive when they are in there. It is not a place for noobs, and if you can handle gars you can tank astral.

I just don't agree people not having to work for it. If you don't want to do the quest every time, let hounds seek to Korath again, like they used to before somone cried so much they nerfed that. Or have one person get down there and keep a village rift open. -shrug-

I had an idea where Krellan would distort celest's rift, unravel it, constantly distort the perm rift by keeping track of time and then he'd take over catacombs all on his own *muaha*

It could work if hermits were not able to be stored in people's shops and those little boxes where they never decay. And if you were online 24/7

It's pretty damn close.

Brings you straight back to the first set of warrior bashing messages.

Not always to > 66% health, but sure it's a massive heal. Anyways, Ildaudid I think you have the best complete idea in the entire thread.

To sum up--
o Perm rift in middle level.
o Change bond seeking slightly so it isn't utterly crap as it is now, which would allow seeking to the bottom level.
o Disallow magical forms of traveling to the bottom level from outside the local area entirely (hermit, paradox puzzle, rifts, spores, etcetc)

Hmm that's about it. Fair on all sides, no advantage, much much less griefing and a lot more fun. One further step could be to remove gardead from the bottom level and disperse them amongst the top two.

Hounds running through doors was a problem, and it should stay fixed. I admit to not knowing how one gets to that bottom level, but I'm betting that a hound can't figure it out on his own without someone opening the "door" for him first.

There are no doors to get between each tier.

Making it the old seek, with disallowing entry past doors or anywhere you'd have to "enter" to get in is really fair.

The problem was it magically porting into areas.
Problem 1: A certain divine temple was infiltrated, my change would disallow this from happening.
Problem 2: Celestian guildhalls were invaded, my change would disallow all entry that way.
Problem 3: Bug that let dogs find quest item storage rooms, would be disallowed by my change.