Disagreeing with the bolded part.

Just using names, so no one take offence.

Say Celest wanted war and Serenwilde didn't. Celest could easily initiate this. How? They can make it their goal to hunt down all members, raid all areas of influence to Serenwilde and camp out in Serenwilde territory killing all that is important to them. Now, Celest in this situation can just say 'We're at war, too bad for you Serenwilde' and Serenwilde has no choice but to defend itself.


And Derian, I can't speak for everyone but I don't find it fun when I'm forced to defend in Etherwilde every day the moment I sign in because someone decides it's the perfect time to raid. If there is a balance between raiding and non-raiding times, sure. It can be fun. The war between Serenwilde and Celest.. wasn't.

I'm sure what Serenwilde did to Glomdoring when it first came out.. wasn't.

I'm sure there are people in Celest who weren't having fun when Magnagora was on top.

I'm sure there are people who aren't having fun whenever their side is losing and being constantly raided.

I actually agree completely with what you are saying. What you are talking about, though, is one organization deciding to declare war on the other organization. It isn't actually brought about by individuals. If, for example, Forren decided to start hunting all of the Serenwilders he could, that wouldn't necessarily lead to a war unless you wanted it to. It would lead to Serenwilde killing Forren all the time, maybe even talking to the Star Council about punishing him, but not an actual war based on only his actions. I think it would be incredibly difficult for Forren alone to bring about a war between Celest and Serenwilde, because he's only one individual.

agree. as much as I like to raid. i've learned it's not always fun to just try and win. Mostly learned this from Diamante. As fun as changes are like who you fight against, I actually don't really want a war with Celest because after seeing several several mag/celest battles. Both sides are mostly in it to destroy one another. sure you'll throw bodies back, but what does that do? I've seen Celest throw bodies to the megalith....know what happens? Mags throw them back because Celest took down the constructs that makes immolations free. Celest and Mag for the most part, tend not to have any restraint other than completely obliterating the other side in order to win. commune raids for the most part, are generally small groups going against how ever many defenders the other side has. I mean like one of my recent raids with just me and Sojiro, we beat back the defenders and there were a couple of smaller ones still running around in fear from my hexes and some fo them still hitting us. we just left them leave. People see us raiding and wanna join in and we don't have them all port or tess in. You might argue that we can't cause every room in monolithed, but it's not hard to take a moment to bring them in. I'm not saying that the cities always overdo it, cause I've seen some fun fights. even numbers even groups or even talent and the fights could go either way just depending.

@daganev no one in Mag argues against Daevos cause (in my own opinion) he's a fantastic leader. I don't think anyone else could do his role as well as he does. He's a top tier fighter, everyone in mag respects him (I think anyways, mostly outside looking in for me)

I'm all about fun raids. I actually enjoy when Celest raids sometimes. You can usually tell whether it will be a fun fight or not depending on who is leading each side. The problem I see in Mag is that there are some people who are higher commune rank/higher GR in the Ur'Guard that take charge, even though they don't really know what they're doing. A lot of our defenses are completley disorganized, mostly because we follow people who don't yet know how to lead. Back to the point, sometimes the cities go way overboard, sometimes they don't. I've seen a lot more restraint practiced lately than I have in the past, in that at least we are giving the bodies back and people are being more responsible. For example, last weakening I found a bug with one of the skills that Celest unknowingly used. I mentioned it to one of them, and instead of abusing it over and over again, they stopped using the skills involved. That's quite a bit of progress from the way things have been in the past.

@daganev Krellan is on the right track. In addition to that, Daevos takes the role of Warlord. He is a military leader and an encourager. He gives great speeches and encourages people to get involved all over - he's great at his job. He does NOT take on the role of an idealistic leader. He doesn't really talk about any of his philosophies, his thoughts on different things, etc.. He doesn't really lead Mag in the same way most leaders do in their organizations. The leaders who actually direct the RP of the city (mostly the ministers, champions, the Iron Council, etc) change out on a pretty regular basis. Daevos even has a habbit of just deciding fresh blood is needed, and opening up the positions for new people.

O_o The only time I remember the rockholm king dieing was when Celest grouped up and killed him, uncrowning him, then went off to influence southgard. This was at the start of a mountain war influencing when Seren had already agreed that we'd take rockholm because they wanted southgard (They only wanted southgard because at the time of the international talk they were busy killing rockholm’s leader.) I remember thinking "wtf".

Anywho, I think what you are thinking of is when Kalodan was killing miners in southgard?

I remember that influencing, I was sitting at ethilwen a lot, inside an aqua demesne (which wasn’t attacking me) It was Seren Vs. Celest Vs. Mag(theoretically) with seren/celest not going against each other aggressively. I remember kalodan leaping in, and ethilwen's guards attacking him. Celest's influencers got pissed because they thought kalodan's killing their miners would make them 'lose' the points for it. Well it doesn't work like that, but still it was a stupid thing to do, and I remember all the fall-out from it, both inside and outside the wilde. The talks were about what respect, or lack of it we had to the dwarves, to any village, to villages who looked to us for safety(a parallel was drawn to the fae of course), to our own citizenry, and so on.

I'm assuming you're talking about Celest in terms of giving bodies back. Mag very rarely gives bodies back. Even when it's someone of the strength of Ixion jumping and killing someone of the strength of Irian on water. No corpse left. It's little things like that which then make the more aggressive Celestians resist the idea of giving Magnagora corpses back when it's suggested by the more compassionate people.

Which just leads to a cycle of blame. Things are restrained right now but I don't see it staying that way for long. Too many people who just would rather outright destroy.

This is probably true. I'm pretty oblivious to what Mags do during raids - I know that I've never destroyed a corpse in my life; I think the fossilize skill (along with its equivalents) is rediculous. I think Xanon seems to be more thoughtful about these things, while most of our fighters (Revan, Ixion, etc) would not. Daevos might be or might not be, depending on his mood and what the fight is about.

That was me that did that and it was during the influencing that happened just before they started the hamsterhunt for the Ascended god competition. I had to go to a lot of trouble to get Thoril crowned, I wasn't eager to see the double comm production go to Celest. Happened quite a bit after the war ended though.

I must have been thinking of when he was killing the miners. It was an influence I was a part of, and I was already in Mag by the time the ascended god competition came around. I guess I was just confused about what he was killing, I just remember it being some big issue.

Just saw this, and I thought I would bold the important part...

The rezz skill makes it pointless to worry about giving corpses back. I have to test it, but I'm not sure if fossilize stops rezzes - just immolations from what I remember.

I'd like to point out Ildaudid used to give corpses back all the time, almost no matter what. Turgeis refused to give Ildaudid somebody's corpse back until Ildaudid pointed out that on several occasions he even gave Turgeis' corpse to a Celestian for immolation. After seeing me having to pray several times and him praying because a certain somebody offered his corpse after a duel , he gave up on caring.

It may seem tacky, but I'm less inclined to give bodies back if the person is raiding my character's territory. (Why would I want to help them come back to raid sooner?) It's almost a slap in the face, to her. However, if the person who died was: defending, didn't know what was going on/clueless noob, was jumped, then yes.

Unless I'm jumping someone that jumped me, and made me pray, that is. I usually end up praying again, anyway, though.

I don't really care if corpses are given back or not honestly. If you died, you died. Pray or conglute or whatever. No, Celestians can't rez fossolized corpses heh. They can sacrifice though. I was only commenting on Derian saying that giving corpses back was a sign of more restrained engagements and making an implication that it was something happening on both sides.

I generally like the 'give corpses back thing'. If I raid ( I know I know.. once in a lifetime heh) it usually means that they get immolated and I can have some fun again. Plus, it won't make me feel bad for forcing someone to pray and then spend hours on the grind that is commonly known as 'bashing for exp'.