Exactly that bit about 'shooting themselves in the foot'. They want more people but still want the same degree of control over its members as they have now, which is an impossibility.

I'd imagine I'd have the same degree of control as I do now if we had twice as many people. I'd imagine I would be a lot happier about things, too.

I'm not to sure where this control issue is coming from.

From people who make an alt and maybe put a tenth of the time and energy as they have on their main and then think they know what it's like playing in Glomdoring, of course. Or people who read the forums and forget to take everything they read with a HUGE grain of salt.

Or from people who have attained decent commune and guild rank within Glom on alts that have been active for many months.

They don't count, OBVIOUSLY.

I can buy that, though this whole issue of control is pretty much blown out of proportion by people like yourself. Many months? Three months could be many. There is a degree of finality in Glomdoring- no waffling on issues like Krellan and Serenwilde. Sure, there's guidance as there is in any org. Obviously the control isn't as bad as you claim otherwise why maintain the alt unless it's purely for metagaming?

No, we don't have to. If Serenwilde really wanted to, we could on our own. They'd just have to you know.. all want it.

I am not sure where the idea of excessive control in glomdoring is coming from, I’m not very high up or important in the commune or the guild currently so I have many superiors but I’m generally able to do what ever I want, I’ve not felt restricted or unable to do anything so far.

All I can say is that I tried really hard for this village revolt, but when we just don't have the numbers, it's really hard. Ixion and Forren have a whole troop of chanters following them around. And that they have a large number of diverters. And that they have the people to camp the named mobs.

That said, I totally enjoyed it, despite it occuring during 12 midnight to 2 am the morning just before church.

I love how a thread on "Basin politics" has become a thread of the expert opinions concerning Glomdoring politics.

Clearly Glomdoring politics ARE basin politics. And you all think Glomdoring is isolated. Pshaw. Look at how it affects EVERYONE.

Gbtg indeed.

All this propaganda about Glomdoring being such a horrible place, especially from people that aren't in it, makes me sick.

Especially seeing, whenever I log on, there are more people in Glomdoring then there are in Magnagora, for example. I may or may not be logging on at peak times, but I usually have to MORE to see everyone.

How would you compare stagfacepaints and crowfacepaints? Spirittotem compared to Crowtotem? Naw, don't want this to turn into another skilldiscussion thread, but basically, Seren and Glom are overall equal skillwise. Of course, some are much better (choke) some are worse (scourge). Though I still think that aeon and lash are superior in groupcombat.

Frankly, I'd say it's from people who have been there and seen it, which Glomdoring hasn't yet. That's the point everyone in the thread but the Glomdorians seems to get. This isn't a statement about Glomdoring, it's a statement about politics. So all this "you don't know us!" posturing is missing the point in the most deliciously ironic way -- the protesting that no one else really knows what's going on is being made by the only people who haven't been through it, but who refuse to listen about it.

But it's okay. One truth of Lusternia is that everyone is allowed -- nay, obligated -- to repeat everyone else's mistakes. So have fun doing it! Everyone else did.

Mistakes? Eh... well Glomdoring's not perfect by a long shot, but show me any org in in Lusty or any organization anywhere in the real world that lives up to it's expectations and anyone would be disappointed. Difference is, Glomdoring is put under a microscope for scrutinization and every twitch it makes is overanalyzed by people with nothing better to do than portray themselves as gadflies. No, that's not directed at you, but rather the slew of people champing at the bit and claiming "My Glom alt's done this and that and they're controlling there! Woe, the control they exert there! Well... I can't tell you a specific occurance of controlling but yes, I assure you there's control!" And yet for all the complaints from non-Glomdorians, the guilds steadily grow in most cases, Glomdoring slowly gets better at events and functioning as a unit. Glomdoring has proven that it can not only sustain itself without allying with a city, but it can flourish. I do have to disagree in the fact that we don't repeat everyone else's mistakes- we make our own mistakes and as yet have not compromised our IC integrity for IC or OOC conveniance.

Yeah, no one else ever gets overanalyzed under a microscope from the outside. Never happened. It's just been a bouncy happy joyride.

I have to say, I don't believe that the political problems are limited to Glomdoring. I do agree with Gwylifar, in that those of us who have tried the Glomdoring and gave up do have a pretty good idea of the problems of the Commune - issues which those who are already established in leadership roles are less likely to recognize. This is why fresh blood is always good. It prevents ruts. I think there are a lot of issues in the Glomdoring politically that make it difficult to attract new people (i.e. the very people posting in this thread whose opinions are being discounted).

That said, Serenwilde has been going through similar problems for quite awhile now. In fact, they mirror the Glomdoring in several ways, except that the leadership is not as stable, and they do not seem quite as forceful. Still, there are similar problems in that both organizations have trouble recruiting, retaining, and training new leaders, both have problems encouraging and retaining fighters because of political regulations, but both are two militarily weak to remove those restrictions.

New Celest in particular seems to have problems with culture, mostly (I believe) because their population is so large. There seems to be a lot of drive and productivity, but there isn't much purpose or IC passion there. Magnagora has issues with becoming overly brutal, and tends to fall into the same trap as Celest, by constantly getting into conflict and forgetting why they are fighting to begin with. Rituals and sermons have all-but disappeared, and the library and cultural strength is lagging.

It's true, Glomdoring has their share of problems. They're hardly alone, though; I could easily start a thread on the political problems of each organization. Which one wants to elect me as the leader first, so I can fix them all?

Good grief. I was about to make a bizarre confused post as to whether someone was serious about pretty much anything in their post but Derian's decision to actually be reasonable and objective about things has quenched my temper.

But come on, people.

I still would like to know how Glomdoring is controlling...

That could be considered a small advantage, Glomdoring has a long standing, entrenched leadership that can be daunting or a discouragement to a player who is interested in politics to join organisations with such long standing leaders. That would be my only apparent criticism of Glomdoring from a unbias point of view, it extends to Magnagora as well as a side point.

I don't think you can file me in the category of people making uninformed claims about Glomdoring based on throwaway alts. Yes, Glom has very slowly been improving, but that inevitable growth has been stifled significantly by leadership decisions. Some of the biggest underlying problems remain. Worst of all is the total unwillingness - demonstrated in this thread - to listen to any differing opinion or accept that Glom leadership may be doing anything less than perfectly. When so many people tell you there's a problem... maybe it's worth considering the notion?

Yes, I know that a lot of people with established characters in Glom will testify that there's no "control" problem. The people who get treated poorly tend not to stick around, and their voices are only manifest as your low population.