Actually, I have admitted my errors and withtracted statements in the past, but hey, thanks for reminding me that it's a-okay to let people make misleading posts without correcting them.

General consensus != actual fact. Heck, if we went by general consensus, the concept of combat balance would be so horribly skewed that lusternian combat wouldn't be fun anymore. This is due to the fact that the general player of Lusternia doesn't understand combat balance well, but still feel that their opinion is right and justified. For instance, Cantors do sound quite nice on paper, but until you actually play one/study them intensively in combat, you don't understand the limitations. The same is true for all classes.

I'll expand upon this comment. Cantors are given acrobatics (common to all 4 bard guilds), starhymn, and tarot. Within starhymn, the only really powerful song is recessional. The only reason recessional is powerful is because people don't know how to cure in it. Tarot helps bards, but really...there's no way to stick aeon without recessional, and recessional curing is just behind the times. Once that's figured out, cantors will become much weaker. Again, this is information that not everyone in the basin knows or fully understands, and because of that, they rush to judgment about skill balance. (ZOMG TRUEHAEL!)




Agreed.



You make it sound like the ability to manage a demesne and use skills that are better for group combat is something spectacular. Were Celest given the choice to have either 5 competent, active mages or Forren, I'd pick the 5 mages. The reason why Forren is such a key difference in group fights is because he is usually the only one around who can handle a demesne, and a demesne is often the penultimate deciding factor in group fights.

Dont you ever tire of these longwinded forum arguements? Most of the time they are amusing, but post after post makes me wonder about some people's mental stability...

I like to argue, I want to be a lawyer one day

Celest could use work on this and there are people working on it. But Celest isn't completely defunct in this area. Celest's library does rather well and there is a good degree of participation in that. Each guild has their own focuses and I can only really speak on the Paladins in terms of "culture" but Paladin culture is getting a pretty huge boost at the moment through the RP efforts of its members. It's there if you look for it but it's not a huge part of what the rest of the game will probably see and definitely not as visible to the average citizen as it could be.

In terms of me never admitting Celest is wrong, eh. I won't deny it. I like Celest. I like what it's accomplished and how it's done it. I by no means think it's perfect as anyone in Celest likely knows from my rants My defensive stance on it in the forums comes from what I feel are the completely uninformed and often vicious rants and whines directed at the organization on the forums. It is extremely annoying to me and I've no doubt that comes through in my posts. But I don't really feel that I go beyond overprotectiveness though. I don't equate other players with their characters. I don't attack or insult them or their organizations on the forums. So I agree with you on some level there and make no apologies about it honestly. I realize it doesn't really make me a terribly likeable person or seen as fair minded but as I'm sure most people have realized by now, I don't play this game to make friends

You might be good at that..

Prolly that's the problem with many players. If you can't play a game to not only give yourself, but also others enjoyment, it is bound to decrease overall enjoyment for everyone involved.
Not aiming at you directly there, Catarin. Just saying what I think.

Absolutely right, said I, reading this part of your post. They're always defending the indefensible, thought I. They're always biased toward Celest, never objective.

Then I had a think and realised... so am I. Oh well.

Stop trying to control me! I get enough of that in Glomdoring!

That doesn't really equate. I sincerely doubt the vast majority of players honestly play with the primary intention of making things enjoyable for other people. Most of us play to have fun and the things we do to have fun will likely translate into enjoyable experiences for the other players who are part of our in-game circle. Very few make any sort of concentrated effort to make the game enjoyable for people outside this circle. This really doesn't hurt the game much I feel.

What would hurt the game is people making a concentrated effort to make the game *less* enjoyable for those outside their circle. Which equates to griefing essentially which I think everyone agrees is something that has a detrimental effect on the game.

Not playing to make friends does not mean griefing. It means that a player is not here in order to form bonds of friendship OOCly. They are generally indifferent to how people view them as they make little to no effort to allow people to get to know them. They are in few to no OOC clans, they don't exchange AIM information with other players, they don't talk to them on the phone, they don't share their character information from other games. They're just here to play the game. There is nothing malicious or harmful about it. It's just a preference in terms of playing style. Yes, I could fit into this style and be more diplomatic on the forums, I just choose not to I'm not of the opinion that arguing on the forums harms the game somehow.

One quick clarification.

I don't care about topguilds. Yes, we've gotten a decent chunk of new GR1 types lately. But the Ebonguard is still pretty...lackluster. It's not a guild, it's a very loose confederation.

Wasn't talking about the forums, we all know it's a pit full of vicious snakes ready to bite anyone movign too fast.
And I wasn't really meaning active enjoyment making. I meant more like...for example, I try to raid only when people have a chance to kill me. Or I won't jump enemies while they are bashing. And and and. I mean, it's really up to anyone themselves, but imho, Lusty would prolly be a lot more fun for everyone if people didn't try to just kill and maul as often as they can.

I agree with you there I just don't think whether someone is trying to make friends or not has anything to do with that. That's just a matter of decent gameplay.

You do well, even when you're wrong you will defend the client to the end! Now please get my uncle Carmine from jail, he didn't kill that girl!!!



This confused me, so you are the type of player not here to have any type of friendship with people? Just not sure if that is what you classify yourself as.

I understand, because I'm the same way. Catarin doesn't play the game for the purpose (or even -a- purpose) of making OOC friendships.

However, not using Lusternia as a vehicle for OOC friendships isn't the same as saying that you want to be unfriendly.

I don't play Lusternia to make OOC friends, either (although it happens). I already have OOC friends. However, I like to think that, when I play, I'm also thinking about the enjoyment of everyone else, even IC enemies. I'm not playing -against- Serenwilde players; I'm playing -with- them.

I don't go to work to make friends, either, but I'm friendly with the people at work, and sometimes friendships do happen in that environment. But that's not why I go.

She's describing someone who doesn't have OOC contact with other players. Someone who has "friendships" in-game in an IC sense but chooses not to carry that through into IMs or OOC clans or phone calls, etc. This simply means you don't have "any type of friendship" outside of the game and prefer to keep things IC when possible and OOC only to discuss game-related matters. I admit I am the same way as a player. I would never contact or communicate with anyone OOC except through a rare email if it was needed. I never liked being "taken out of reality" through OOC discussions of movies or whatnot.

Ahhh



Ok, got it. Was just a little confused at first. Yeah I can see what she means now. Thanks

Umm no.

It is a form of argument to bring things into question, it is not a proof one way or another.

It is a question that can be posed to the person who themselves asked the question to begin with.

This is similar to people blaming television for violence, or blaming gun control laws on mass murders. The connections that exist are not as direct as the people arguing their connection would have you believe.

GbTG is a slogan, a jingle, that is all it is. A Call and responce, similar to protest chants such as "When do we want it?" : "Now!"

I'm the same way.

Only time I like IMs or OOC stuff is when I'm able to have people tell me stuff about the game that I'm missing.

Quite a bold statement coming from somebody who doesn't return messages and is never online.

Well, after all the brainstorming and things you were thinking up last night to help improve the guild, I'm sure that things will get better!