There's a lot of circumstances that can apply to 'can't stand on their own', mind. A champion isn't the god/goddess of combat- they can always use help. Some of us were also elected because there was literally nobody else in the guild who felt they could do or wanted the position (Myself. Twice! ), and we're still probably not terribly great combatants!

When it comes to avoiding avenger- there's a downside and an upside. Just because I have transmigration doesn't mean I'll always use it, but I love not losing experience. A lot. At the same time, I'm extremely open to griefing from many people with little to no repercussion on their side. You can only take so much griefing before you crack and do something 'unchampionlike'.

I like the idea of champs not being protected by avechna. They are not -needed- like a GM or a GA, and overall I've only see champs that A: fight well, and nothing else/use artifacts for personal wars, B: Fight well and rescue/try to lead people, C: were the best fighter at the time, or D: Train people, and are still good fighters and sometimes rescue. (Iasmos is this )
D would be the "best" champ IMHO, but I've seen mostly type B's and several type A's and a few C's. The A's and C's aren't needed. They only fulfill a vacant posistion. If you have no one worth the helm/magic item, don't have a champ! I swear everything won't fall to pieces.

Sort of hard to not have people run for positions they want to run for.

If they would make it like Imperian, trust me, you would not have this "perma grace" you so dream of. And it is very easy IG to kill you now, you strip earwort, this makes you an enemy to 99% of the basin, who doesn't buy earwort from you. JUst because you like to abuse grace and hide behind suspect, it does not mean that if the PK system were changed to be more like Imperians you would still get the same perks of that, trust me.... you wouldn't act like you do here in Imperian, it's so easy to kill off people.

And yeah, they grief people who leave guilds and don't forget skills. It is not called harrassment, it is called having a traitor who is allowed to be hunted relentlessly with no form of grace or protection to hide behind

Perhaps a champion vs. champion thing could be worked out where you don't have to declare other champions. People who may know more about how coding works, discuss

Don't think it should be just champion vs champion?? What about no one needs to declare champions, yet champions have to declare non champions? Or do you think that'd be too much?

oh I forgot in my last post. Another consequence that I foresee of removing avechna protection from champions is that if one were going to be griefed like I would have Krellan do to Daedalion, is that champions will start to use the rescue ability to get themselves out of trouble by rescuing a novice/newbie/other guild member so they don't die themselves.

First off.. It's really not fair when Mag initiates conflict is a biased statement. To anyone who can agree with this, last I checked no one wanted this done.

Second there is a reason liches run when they die... they arent too hard to get when they come back defenseless.

Now as for the rest...

1) If you died in a raid or any other form that isn't jumping... and I dont really like venging jumpers unless they are doing it to be griefers. Dont call Veng

2) Yes people do decide they wont call veng.. In a raid on Southgard some people died.. they didnt call veng. Why? They died fair and square most of the time... if you dont want to fight then dont come.

3) A champion shouldnt need call veng, then again really kind of stupid that you can get veng on one for them defending a guild member. I also believe if you start the you should finish it. You want to go raid celestia alone and try to showoff.. go head.. but dont expect me to run and get you when two people show up.

4) I am saddened to say but this was actually a good way to get a fight started.. cosmic is perma rippled, elementals are fluxed.. prime or astral is all thats left and no one guards astral unless you want to defile a shrine.. which just causes shrine wars.

And Lastly.. not even worth a number.. suspect is a way to steady a field.. however if you are trying to use it to make a fight fair, you should have limits.. you dont call veng on someone.. you break it when you believe you can take the person (when 2 are left you can lose suspect on those two).

Let's try to have some honour, make things proper and show some sportsmanship. I raid Southgard, I expect people to come and I expect them to try to prevent me from leaving.. I attack celestia I expect ripples, maybe shrine powers, and either to get mass attacked or for the group to sit at the nexus (I swear all cosmic conflict is tlike taht.. its either a major group fight or no fight at all).

In short, use common sense, play fair, have fun, and dont grief.

I wasn't around for the Seren wars and have never raided Seren. I don't think my character was even born when the war started (maybe at the very end of the war).

Even so, I wouldn't dream of abusing game mechanics to get what I want like that.

EDIT:

And, you can trap souls. Lysandus's soul got trapped when Revan and Krellan killed him in gorgog caves. They walled and eyed the place and there was no way to tumble or crash through the stuff, or fly over any of it, and his soul couldn't get out.

It was because of lack of abilities, though.

I relate it to Mag because currently, Magnagorans are the only people I've seen do that. I don't get involved with communes so I can't speak regarding them. Every opinion is biased in that sense, but it's not false bias. It's true. He initiated the conflict and he didn't want to take the heat for it.

1) I realize that dying in a raid isn't jumping. Jumping is more like attacking someone while they're unprepared/unknowing/doing something else.

2) This I know too. Don't go to a fight if you don't want to participate... everyone knows that.

3) Right.

4) It isn't. We rippled it whenever Magnagorans started trouble. You are totally able to raid in ripple as well. Flux is a problem, but ripple can be done (Celest has fought Nil in ripple before, and done a good job of it. I think Mag has just as much of a chance to do as well in those kinds of conditions).

That's the thing. Xanon raids Celest, but hides behind the Avenger and calls Vengeance on people who generally aren't that interested in combat, like Creslin (no offense Creslin). He's a Champion. He shouldn't do that. If he wants to raid he better bring numbers with him to do it properly. Not let people kill him, get status (usually vitae, or lich, not sure if lich gives status though), and then kill lowbies while wreaking havoc. It's just immature. If he wants a fight he should be more prepared to accept one.

Yeah those would be some sad ass Champs. I only know of one who has done this, and they even realised it wasn't right. Hopefully no one else would consider it. But ya may have some who don't have as much decency as the GC who did this and stopped it immediately.



Exactly it was abilities, if someone who had tumble or leap wanted to help Lysandus they could have and would have. All they need to do it leap/tumble in, rezz Lysandus and it is done. granted the rezzer will have to sip vitae first and may die, but it can be done.

Also you may not have been around for these wars, but Celest has done this to people lots o times, I remember Amaru doing it to Torak, and Torak knew it was abuse, but he was like, well it was probably an accident and happens. I think it was (Celest)Thoros who did it with Serenwilde, and I know Talkan and Forren did it with me. Now that is 3 times Celest have done it, and you didn't hear the forums blow up then. So, granted it sucks when this happens. It does happen But hey whatcha gonna do

I don't hide behind suspect. I simply don't reciprocate on Prime. Shame on those who decide to attack me there when I didn't attack them. When someone attacks me on Prime, I usually have PK CAREFUL ON to make sure I can't fight back. I never ever declare or defend. Not my fault they aren't perceptive enough to realize that I'm not going to be forced into fighting just so they can slay me over and over and I have no chance against their /systems/ (really, that's all combat in IRE games boils down to).

And yes, I played Imperian for a while too. I enjoyed lounging in the city all the time or playing with my grove. Also, I could've sworn grace there lasted until it was rejected, unlike here where it goes away after a certain period of time. (I remember certain incidences where graced people in Imperian would sit in the middle of a raid/invasion and just collect corpses. That's part of where the whole reject grace illusion came from.) Then again, I haven't played Imperian in over a year.

And btw, using grace to go harvest is not abuse of it, especially if it was obtained through peaceful means. I rarely ever attack back unless I'm defending the city, Celestia, or Water. If I don't conglute, I don't attack.

And as for traitor.. Unless they can actually view my skills or see me using Serenwilde specific druidry skills, they have no case. Using a sickle? Nature skill.. Glomdoring is a commune also. Unless they can undeniably prove I still possess the skills they're accusing me of, there's just no case.

But then again, if this is supposed to be Imperian, I demand a change to Herbs to reflect Imperian's system. I also request a way to damage forests (fire, etc). And, of course, either Prime congluting or no org congluting at all. There, now it's fair.

You are still using Druidry as a city dweller... People will hunt you for that alone... or maybe words can spread about you using Bolting or some other Serenwilde skill in order to escape

Retaining your forestal class a cheap thing to do IC and OOC... so yeah

Looks like they're back doing the same thing again tonight. Xanon now has suspect on the majority of Celest's fighting force. Can this please be fixed soon so I don't feel so helpless when lowbies are being scythed down right in front of me while I'm helpless to do ANYTHING?

You know, I didn't issue before, but I'm considering it now. This is getting absurd. And to those of you in these groups that attack like this, just because you personally don't have status on me or any of Celest's main fighters doesn't make you innocent. In joining the fight you are supporting their actions.

@Ildy you cannot be graced in enemy territory, that is to say you physically can, but it is grace abuse. So if you do catch him on earth with grace that's issuable. I've already had this clarified for me so that's why I say it.

Really?! I wish I knew before.... Meh. As for the topic at hand, it confuses me, so I will keep opinions-yet-to-be-formed to myself for now.

It's not a cheap thing to do IC. It may be against the grain, but there's roleplay and IC reasoning behind it. OOC, I just want nature guard and growth, sprinting, leaping, scenting, and the other totem abilities/perks. Druidry, Hunting, and Stag are useless to me. Well, trueheart is very very handy. I'd lounge around Glomdoring.. but that place is Boring.



Not really. It's completely acceptable in mechanics. If I don't wish to fight, then I shouldn't have to, considering the only fighting I do is to defend the territory I'm a citizen of. If I could take up a pacifist stance (which I've already suggested before) in return for perma Grace, I'd settle for that. Unfortunately, being slain in order to protect myself is the only option.



It's not abuse, considering that the mechanics are in place to prevent strip harvesting. It's called Nature Guard. Yes, the person can keep the herbs down to 10 and leave none for anyone else, but that's already common on Astral with sparkleberry *cough cough*. Because there're mechanics built in to counter it, strip harvesting harms no one. Earth is not entirely Magnagora's territory, so any mention of Magnagora not having forestals is out. The only things that require a rejecting of grace are things considered hostile actions. Picking an herb is not hostile.. if it is, I demand a skill that allows me to see who harvested last. Also, Grace in Lusternia wears out. If Zacc is on Earth stripharvesting, chances are he's already prepared to die _again_ when the Grace wears off. There's little chance he'll find his way off Earth before someone distorts the archway, trapping him, or the Grace is gone.

I suppose we should have to reject grace to exit manses, etc. too. Want to leave your city? REJECT GRACE. Influencing? REJECT GRACE.

I don't know about that. I remember being a Mage (from Kinsarmar) in Khandava and then an Arboreal in Kinsarmar. Actually.. I think I've been in Celedon, Kinsarmar, and Khandava and never really held the proper guild for any city... and no one really cared. But that was over a year ago. No idea if they've changed their rules since then.



I've only seen Serenwilde on fire once and that was when Terentia did it. Hmm.. Now I'm curious how they managed to set something on fire. My new goal is to find out how to set the forest aflame.

Psst! I found something fun about that, no need to slay him really. There's other stuffs you can do if you're annoyed with someone.

Just ask me IG *halo*

/hijack

I'd like to hear the admin's reasoning on that one, considering being enemied to a city and all its guilds does not equal being enemied to the plane or the lords of that plane. The only territory the city has any influence on in that plane is the nexus. Otherwise, why not place guards all over the plane and not just the nexus? It's the equivalent of saying, of you can't be on spectre isle while graced, it's grace abuse... or in Shallach while graced.. or the Inner Sea while graced... or Faethorn while graced. Uh- no. The thought is just absurd.