I wouldn't mind that, honestly, and I provide half your herbs

Your statement is only correct for Ethereal Seren and Glom. Water and Earth were never listed as Org territories.

This is in general the reply because 1) in owned territory you can get killed by guards 2) areas like earth have nothing to offer worthwile
(stripharvesting is entirely preventable)


Was this when the nest was bugged and could not contain guards like it was supposed to? Otherwise this would just be odd


Magnagora has the ability to use their nexus flux on earth, this hits all their enemies and clearly marks the plane as theirs, just like ripple marks the cosmic planes. However overharvesting is ill form, overharvesting under grace is just purposely annoying people. Grace was never intended to give you respite from people defending their plane. Grace was originally meaned to prevent people from camping people that prayed or congluted at their nexus or at the portal of fate, just as many other online games implemented. The fact that you can use it to cause harm to a player group is a design flaw which the envoys will have to try and get fixed. So in the sense as to why grace was implemented, then obviously you abused grace, and I hope a god will icly punish you for it one day.

I have always said: no grace off prime, and I always wanted illusions to be unpreformable under grace, now I can add harvesting to that list.

In other words, you want to play a game where there are no consequences for your actions. GTFO.

I think I remember this from... whenever it was. I believe you're correct in saying there was a time when the nest was guardless. That would be enemy territory lacking guards.

Have a Healer along doing 'cure me blood' on them.

Do Nihilists get healing? I think a sadistic healer who's totally perverted the skillset from it's original purpose would be an awesome character to have. Maybe even have Healing specialize out to cover the change... Hrm, I like that. I’ll have to work out that, see what I can come up with.

@Anisu not sure what your talking about with the nest. this wasn't ridiculously long ago, at most a couple months.

Zacc himself has said it's impossible to keep things completely guarded, people strip it at times you can't be awake. This was referring to sparkleberry on cancer. Moreso this is harder on earth because of the fact that it's practically impossible to tell what room you're in with the falling off the mountain deal.

@Geb thanks for the correction.

They get Hexes instead, only Celestine Guardians get Healing.

Those actions can always be done without Grace. If Grace was removed or harvesting wasn't allowed while Graced, I'd just have to wait until nonprime hours when no one was on and go stripping then. It's been done before. If Grace is to be removed or nerfed, then no influencing/debating while Graced.. If Grace is removed from nonprime planes, then tradeskills need to be removed from those planes as well to balance it out (since those planes would then be open PK and nothing would stop someone from slaying a pacifist character who only worked a tradeskill, which isn't a combat skill and offers no defenses or offenses). I'd also like to add that continually slaying someone simply because they don't attack back, can't attack back, or can't defend is just as much an annoyance and abuse as overharvesting is (well, mechanically they're both allowed). Except, when attacking someone you know will not attack back or be able to defend, you're gaining something. So really, where's the balance in that? What's fair in allowing players with more skills, artifacts, and system to basically do the same that a Graced stripharvester would do.. So instead of having Grace, we'd remove it, allow combatant players to hinder the game for those who aren't combatant, and fail to give those noncombatants an equal way to avoid being slain over and over and over. That's rather balanced, wouldn't you say?

The Portal of Fate is a noncombat room.

If a plane is truly under the influence of an org, the increased xp loss from enemy territory should be applied. Now let's see how people respond to that..



And where are the consequences for combatants who continually hunt down certain people simply because they know there's a 0% chance the target will survive? There aren't any, which is why the PK systems needs two balanced aspects- those who want to fight, and those who don't. It's quite clear the game isn't entirely combat based, unlike most of the IRE games.. The skills of Dramatics and Influence show that. Tradeskills would too, but unfortunately they reach into places the PK system doesn't cover, and that's where the issues arise.

Yes, it is. The avenger protects you on Prime. The planes are meant to be open PK; grace abuse like you do prevents this from happening. Stop whining and get over yourself.

It's impossible to do as a single person. However, if multiple people care about it, it shouldn't be a problem (such as the issue with earwort and half the game going up in arms over it). Unfortunately, only communes can guard (I'm really starting to side with Growth and Guard being moved to Herbs). Not much harder than guarding merbloom. Those waves aren't fun.

And speaking of guarding.. I wonder if guard works against fires.. I never thought about that since fires are rare and seemingly event-only.



Then move all noncombat skills (all tradeskills, Influence, and Dramatics) to Prime. If noncombatants were not forced to go into open PK areas to use their noncombatant skills, I'd support no Grace off Prime.

Prime is meant to be relatively safe (if they kill you, they get vengenced/peaced/ect) so you're protected from what I quoted there. Off-prime was never meant to be safe, so yes, I'll have to second Sham there, it's rather balanced. If you're off-prime you are either A. Defending/Attacking an org, in which case you've accepted the risks. or B. hunting/harvesting, in which case you also need to accept the risks. Due to the rewards of them all, there needs to be risks to balance it out, that's why sparkleberries don't grow in prime forested areas, for instance.

Edit:aww sham edited, and ninja'ed me.


Hrm, this thread's been derailed from what it was, but the central point is the same, PK protection being abused by enemies raiding to kill off people, or raiding to kill off herbs.

:\\ This is just what Celest did to Serenwilde -all through the war- On the road between the wilde, in the river going out to the sea, on the boarder of all our villages, and though it's not technically the same on the avenger side of it, in faethorn right outside the etherwilde. I'm not really surprised that it's happening to celest now.

That doesn't make it any better when it happens (It's a shitty situation i've experianced myself more times then I've wanted to, dairuchi is about the worst village to try to defend when this 'tactic' is being used against you too, due to it's many enterances, and seren prime is the worse nation to defend for the same reason, which is where most of my experiance during the war comes from.).

This has been going on for a year or so now, and nothing has been changed yet. From the technical side of it, 1 room outside celest is the same alignment towards mags as the mountains, or 1 room outside magnagora. You also really can't get around this that I can see, unless you A. make some sort of gates on all enterances and exits between zones (which would be kinda lame) or B. remove avenger protection in all neutral areas on prime (which would suck), and see what I said before about 1 room outside celest/mag/glom/seren as being technically neutral.

Ah, or C. Don't be a , raid responsibly, don't hide behind protection when you're raiding.

I found this quote towards the beginning of the thread. I think it's stupid.



I'm a manual Mark in Achaea.

The opposite of healing is harming, yes? HEXES. All afflictions. Healing, incidentally, is all curing afflictions (and Bedevil and the standard HP curing). Otherwise, the whole angel of death thing can be pretty easily RPed as a Nihilist. Nihilists have some pretty good skills that could take advantage of knowledge of anatomy (torture, disfigure, crucify, sacrifice, scourge). I want vivisection in Lusty. That was an awesome necromancy skill .

Way to burst my bubble.

Fixed.

I have a tendency to do that. Sorry!




And just to nitpick, it would be CURE BLOOD, otherwise it would just be wasting the healer's mana and returning 'You concentrate on curing your own ailments'. Not very useful, IMNSHO.

Then how do you explain person A getting person B to slay you in order to avoid the Avenger system? Either way, both sides of it can be circumvented some way or other (at current). Those who are combatant have a higher gain- more rewards (xp from killing players/mobiles, and tradeskills on those planes). There's no justification for that. Not to mention there is far too much competition on Prime, it's far too small for so many people. Giving combatants several methods of rewards, and several combatant-only areas is not fair. As it is now, combatants have far too many rewards and benefits when compared to those who don't want to participate in combat.

Things that need to be changed about the PK system:
If Grace is removed from nonPrime planes-
1. Tradeskills do not rely on resources off Prime.
2. More influencing/hunting areas on Prime.
3. Command that marks someone as a noncombatant- giving them special status in the Avenger system. Any attacks against them is instant suspect, death is instant vengeance. They may not attack back or any form of hostile action. Command may not be changed without some sort of very very expensive cost (lots of credits, lots of exp, extensive quest, lots of gold.. etc). This prevents it from being turned on and off at a whim. Perhaps a time limit.
3a. If this is so, then a review of all abilities in all skills needs to be done to determine which are and aren't combat related.
3b. Strip harvesting (harvesting to 0) is made an offensive action.
3c. Corpses of players may not be picked up unless mutually allied. Or time limit is added after death to prevent triggered pick up of corpses, though, this would hinder noncombat related deaths.
3d. Noncombatant status is removed upon entering enemy territory and other planes.
4. No Grace during revolts, but noncombatant status still applies for those who have it (this is also why a safety to keep people from turning it on and off is needed).

If Grace is removed completely-
See above.

If Grace is kept, but harvesting and other skills are made hostile-
1. Harvesting below 1 is hostile.
2. No Grace during violent revolts.
3. Player corpses may not be picked up. Or see 3c above.
4. Grace is permanant until rejected.
5. Grace is removed upon entering enemy territory.

I don't see how any of that would be ridiculously abusable or unfair. Everyone gets what they want.. noncombatants can do their thing without worrying, and combatants can do their thing without being bothered by noncombatants.



Fixed.


I found this comment. I thought it was a little.. yeah..



This is Achaea???? Like O-M-G! I had no idea!

To be fair, no tradeskill relies on any non-Prime plane. Sure, Sparkleberry and Earwort are a large source of income for herbalists, but herbalists can make a large enough profit by sticking to Prime alone. Of the thousands of gold I spend regularly on herbs, a very small portion of those are Outer-Plane-Herbs.

lusternia is based around conflict. or go find somewhere else and be a pacifist