Charune2007-05-16 19:21:44
Currently the committee is working on its own guild structure. Other than a quick brainstorming, on the Serenwilde/Celest tertiary, skill discussion has been very minute, and the discussion on that tertiary was mostly a case of "let's look at some ideas then you can post them on the forums to see what others think or suggest." Serenwilde will not be "balancing the skills for every guild", though they may get some information on things first, i.e the combat discussion Roark had.
Will other people be allowed in eventually from other orgs? Most likely though I would suggest each Org pick the person they feel can best help and when that time comes we will induct said person. We are not going to open the clan up to every person just cause they think they might want to be a monk someday, as to many people does not help anything.
Again, Serenwilde is mostly working on their own guild structure, and there is no need for anyone else to join. They have been very forthright in bringing anything that concerns other guilds to the thread for open discussion and I trust they will continue to do so.
As for the Glom/Magnagoran skill, it is not a case of Serenwilde knows it and is balancing it for them. It is a case of, we told them they aren't going to find out either and it is a secret. Which it will remain until such time as it is decided to not be a secret. So the Illithoid players don't have to worry that "those Seren are going to ruin our skills".
Will other people be allowed in eventually from other orgs? Most likely though I would suggest each Org pick the person they feel can best help and when that time comes we will induct said person. We are not going to open the clan up to every person just cause they think they might want to be a monk someday, as to many people does not help anything.
Again, Serenwilde is mostly working on their own guild structure, and there is no need for anyone else to join. They have been very forthright in bringing anything that concerns other guilds to the thread for open discussion and I trust they will continue to do so.
As for the Glom/Magnagoran skill, it is not a case of Serenwilde knows it and is balancing it for them. It is a case of, we told them they aren't going to find out either and it is a secret. Which it will remain until such time as it is decided to not be a secret. So the Illithoid players don't have to worry that "those Seren are going to ruin our skills".
Charune2007-05-16 19:57:23
Just to help you all understand the combat a little better, this is the excerpt about how monk combat kata/forms will work.
Though it was summarized, perhaps seeing the full discussion will help understand what was meant in the summary.
Though it was summarized, perhaps seeing the full discussion will help understand what was meant in the summary.
QUOTE
(Seren Monk Committee): Estarra says, "Roark is best to answer specific questions on kata."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "I can't remember what questions I had now ."
(Seren Monk Committee): You say, "You asked about combos."
(Seren Monk Committee): You say, "And parrying."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Oh yeah."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Whether they can be parried, and how many attacks per round they're looking at."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Is basically what I'm after."
(Seren Monk Committee): Sarrasri says, "Yah."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "No parrying as of yet."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Per round is difficult."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Want me to give a rundown on how combat works?"
(Seren Monk Committee): Sarrasri says, "Sure."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Please, I know the basics that it's wounds affecting damage."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "This is very high level. There are some things like how wounding and DEX play in that don't impact per round attacks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "So you have 4 limbs."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "But one foot must stay on the groudn for obvious reasons. (And no, please don't mention winged creatures.)"
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "So this means you have three attacking limbs."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Each one attacks independently."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Wings don't work like that, newton's laws make too much trouble."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "So for example in your left arm you could grapple someone to incapacitate him while you use your right arm ald right leg to punch and kick someone else."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The amount of limb balance you consume depends on how many limbs are off balance."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "If you use up all three limbs, the last two will be slower than the first. So you get penalized for doing that."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "But there are kata forms."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "In theory, any ka attack can be included in a form."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "At least everyone we have designed so far can. "
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "A form is a set of attacks you want to fire at the same time, up to one for each free limv."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Ok, sounds interesting."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The form can also have modifications to it. For example, you could put a FAST modification on it or a STUN modification, depending on which skills you have to modify forms."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The point of forms is that you string then together."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "You must select 2 or more forms (though a form can repeat) to do in a row."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Because you have studied the forms so well, you do not have that balance penalty described before."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "And in addition you get a speed bonus for each form taht fires after the first. They will go half the time as the initial form."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "This does sound quite powerful, but without knowing the effects can't say for sure."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The up side is speed. The downside is you cannot target multiple people. In addition, you are stuck doing that form until it ends and cannot easily change direction. We will probably have a verb to break a form but with a balance penalty."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "There are limits to how much you can pack into a form series, but that's too detailed for your question."
(Seren Monk Committee): Estarra says, "So does that answer your question on its similarities to achaea monks, laysus?"
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Here we go."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Yeah, thanks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Right now it's 2 seconds outside of forms for a limb attack. You get a +2 second penalty for each other limb off balance. So your last attack would take 6 seconds."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "I believe the plan for forms is 4 seconds on the first and 2 second for each following form."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "I guessed there was going to be the basic one, which is three seperate limbs for attacking (two arms and a leg, usually), but was curious how far it went from that."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Another twist is that your DEX will determine the limb wounding damage you do. The wound level of a body part will determine how much HP damage you do (in addition to STR). So more DEX means more wounding damage, which means more HP damage. It also helps you compliment a warrior for obvious reasons."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "So I take it that weapons for specs are planned to be one handed for all guilds, to maintain the three attacks?"
(Seren Monk Committee): Estarra says, "Depends. We were thinking of a 2handed thing for mag."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Haven't thought that far. My hope is that holding a weapon you specialize in will not impact your ability to do things with that arm, but I have not asked Estarra what she thinks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Oh I misunderstood the question."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "You could still have two handed weapons and have three attacks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The kung fu masters in the movies always use the bo staff to hit two people with each end."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Hm, true."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "I can't remember what questions I had now ."
(Seren Monk Committee): You say, "You asked about combos."
(Seren Monk Committee): You say, "And parrying."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Oh yeah."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Whether they can be parried, and how many attacks per round they're looking at."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Is basically what I'm after."
(Seren Monk Committee): Sarrasri says, "Yah."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "No parrying as of yet."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Per round is difficult."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Want me to give a rundown on how combat works?"
(Seren Monk Committee): Sarrasri says, "Sure."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Please, I know the basics that it's wounds affecting damage."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "This is very high level. There are some things like how wounding and DEX play in that don't impact per round attacks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "So you have 4 limbs."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "But one foot must stay on the groudn for obvious reasons. (And no, please don't mention winged creatures.)"
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "So this means you have three attacking limbs."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Each one attacks independently."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Wings don't work like that, newton's laws make too much trouble."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "So for example in your left arm you could grapple someone to incapacitate him while you use your right arm ald right leg to punch and kick someone else."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The amount of limb balance you consume depends on how many limbs are off balance."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "If you use up all three limbs, the last two will be slower than the first. So you get penalized for doing that."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "But there are kata forms."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "In theory, any ka attack can be included in a form."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "At least everyone we have designed so far can. "
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "A form is a set of attacks you want to fire at the same time, up to one for each free limv."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Ok, sounds interesting."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The form can also have modifications to it. For example, you could put a FAST modification on it or a STUN modification, depending on which skills you have to modify forms."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The point of forms is that you string then together."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "You must select 2 or more forms (though a form can repeat) to do in a row."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Because you have studied the forms so well, you do not have that balance penalty described before."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "And in addition you get a speed bonus for each form taht fires after the first. They will go half the time as the initial form."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "This does sound quite powerful, but without knowing the effects can't say for sure."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The up side is speed. The downside is you cannot target multiple people. In addition, you are stuck doing that form until it ends and cannot easily change direction. We will probably have a verb to break a form but with a balance penalty."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "There are limits to how much you can pack into a form series, but that's too detailed for your question."
(Seren Monk Committee): Estarra says, "So does that answer your question on its similarities to achaea monks, laysus?"
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Here we go."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Yeah, thanks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Right now it's 2 seconds outside of forms for a limb attack. You get a +2 second penalty for each other limb off balance. So your last attack would take 6 seconds."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "I believe the plan for forms is 4 seconds on the first and 2 second for each following form."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "I guessed there was going to be the basic one, which is three seperate limbs for attacking (two arms and a leg, usually), but was curious how far it went from that."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Another twist is that your DEX will determine the limb wounding damage you do. The wound level of a body part will determine how much HP damage you do (in addition to STR). So more DEX means more wounding damage, which means more HP damage. It also helps you compliment a warrior for obvious reasons."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "So I take it that weapons for specs are planned to be one handed for all guilds, to maintain the three attacks?"
(Seren Monk Committee): Estarra says, "Depends. We were thinking of a 2handed thing for mag."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Haven't thought that far. My hope is that holding a weapon you specialize in will not impact your ability to do things with that arm, but I have not asked Estarra what she thinks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "Oh I misunderstood the question."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "You could still have two handed weapons and have three attacks."
(Seren Monk Committee): Roark says, "The kung fu masters in the movies always use the bo staff to hit two people with each end."
(Seren Monk Committee): Laysus (from the Aetherways) says, "Hm, true."
Krellan2007-05-16 20:23:38
QUOTE(Shorlen @ May 16 2007, 01:25 PM) 408678
Too abuseable as an escape skill. Activate when you are in a fight you know you aren't going to win (Forren appears) and teleport nexus, run, or snort spores. Org conglut ftw?
It's not an escape when you die. You still die, lose all your defs, the time it takes to redef ectera. It's like a less form of heartstop since you don't lose as much if you make it to your org.
anyways, I really liked some of the ideas from Clise and Shiri that Clise posted. The focus of stability needs different penalties however. -no one- will take a level 3 balance and equilibrium penalty. Everything is about speed. Or at least they wouldn't take it for just a stun immunity. hrm..off the top of my head it could be a slower focus balance? like twice as long to focus body from paralyse which sounds terrible for the non trans disciplines but for the trans it's only a 2 second.
Verithrax2007-05-16 20:29:42
Thing about forms:
How do they segue into each other? Do you choose previously which form you're going to do after the one you're doing now? Is that implemented yet?
It would be nice if instead, you could flow into another form according to some simple rules. For example:
1) If a form ends in an arm move, you can't use that arm to start the next form.
2) If a form ends in a leg move, you can't use that leg in the next form at all.
This is more interesting if you have assymetrical skills and weapons - skills that work only on the left hand, or on the right hand, or on the leg. Which is why glaives and kusari-gama are interesting - with a glaive, for example, your right hand does all the bladed moves (Slashes, thrusts, etc.) and your left hand does all the moves with the bottom of the weapon (So you could slash someone with the right and trip someone with the left, but not vice-versa). With a glaive your right hand uses the sickle while your left hand uses the chain, etc, which gives another layer of strategy and fluidity to monk combat. Performing certain moves in certain orders should be naturally advantageous; for example, you could have a "pull close" move with the chain of a kusari-gama that increases your precision for the next attack, or you can have an attack with the foot that works better on prone opponents (Making tripping them a natural preceding move).
You'd be able to break those rules (Say, do a form that ends with the left hand and then do a form that starts with the left hand) but you wouldn't get the speed bonus.
How do they segue into each other? Do you choose previously which form you're going to do after the one you're doing now? Is that implemented yet?
It would be nice if instead, you could flow into another form according to some simple rules. For example:
1) If a form ends in an arm move, you can't use that arm to start the next form.
2) If a form ends in a leg move, you can't use that leg in the next form at all.
This is more interesting if you have assymetrical skills and weapons - skills that work only on the left hand, or on the right hand, or on the leg. Which is why glaives and kusari-gama are interesting - with a glaive, for example, your right hand does all the bladed moves (Slashes, thrusts, etc.) and your left hand does all the moves with the bottom of the weapon (So you could slash someone with the right and trip someone with the left, but not vice-versa). With a glaive your right hand uses the sickle while your left hand uses the chain, etc, which gives another layer of strategy and fluidity to monk combat. Performing certain moves in certain orders should be naturally advantageous; for example, you could have a "pull close" move with the chain of a kusari-gama that increases your precision for the next attack, or you can have an attack with the foot that works better on prone opponents (Making tripping them a natural preceding move).
You'd be able to break those rules (Say, do a form that ends with the left hand and then do a form that starts with the left hand) but you wouldn't get the speed bonus.
Hazar2007-05-16 20:52:26
There's still a basic question I'm missing. How do monks afflict?
I thought it was stated that they don't do wounds from deepwounds, is that incorrect?
I thought it was stated that they don't do wounds from deepwounds, is that incorrect?
Daganev2007-05-16 21:10:21
Poisons on weapons, Katas and Stun modifiers.
Unknown2007-05-16 21:52:29
Monks in Lusternia?! You've certainly outdone yourselves now admins! Very very nice indeed.
Unknown2007-05-16 21:55:54
Roark has me drooling
Genos2007-05-16 21:58:38
I wish they would reconsider the idea of having one punch and two kicks while keeping one hand planted on the ground.
Shorlen2007-05-16 22:10:56
QUOTE(Genos @ May 16 2007, 05:58 PM) 408771
I wish they would reconsider the idea of having one punch and two kicks while keeping one hand planted on the ground.
/agree
Though, thinking about it, the way they have it, they can have leg ka skills that are stronger than arm skills, but you can't double hit with them at once. Or more simply, things that would be a bit too powerful if you could do two at once. Sleep, for instance.
Daganev2007-05-16 22:38:13
Everyone in the clan should, on a daily basis, remind the clan that they need to allow an arm to be one of the limbs on the ground.
Unknown2007-05-16 22:41:41
QUOTE(Vesar @ May 16 2007, 03:20 PM) 408704
2) Psionics: Awesome idea of creating another spec for psionics. My question is if it will be channel-based like the existing ones? I guess they have to, seeing how it will be based on the skills of the current Psionics skillset. I hope there are considerations given as to how psionic channels will synergize with the monk offense. For example, you do a psionic combo and can't do a kata form or other attack for 6-8 seconds. Seems a bit unweildly. On the other hand, usage of locked channel skills will easily complement the monk. The only drawback I can see with this is that there are only 3 skills you can lock, making the majority of the specialization useless in a fight. I've heard others also bring up the idea that the two existing specilizations (Telepathy/Telekinesis) could be offered as a skill choice, to give more variety and individualism to the player.
If there is a Psionics specialization for monks, I'll switch in a heartbeat. I still say that the psychic/aura barbs could be a Psionic specialization too, but that's just me. Please do something really nifty for Psionics. I know the OP said Psionic, but from the description it didn't sound like it was actually the Psionics skill, just a normal psychic monk type thing.
5) HighMagic vs LowMagic: Will there be a requirement for one or the other? Perhaps the cities could require HighMagic, the communes LowMagic. I don't know, but it something that needs to be discussed.
Mostly as a side note, Warriors and Bards can select either one, regardless of whether they're in a City or a Commune.
If there is a Psionics specialization for monks, I'll switch in a heartbeat. I still say that the psychic/aura barbs could be a Psionic specialization too, but that's just me. Please do something really nifty for Psionics. I know the OP said Psionic, but from the description it didn't sound like it was actually the Psionics skill, just a normal psychic monk type thing.
5) HighMagic vs LowMagic: Will there be a requirement for one or the other? Perhaps the cities could require HighMagic, the communes LowMagic. I don't know, but it something that needs to be discussed.
Mostly as a side note, Warriors and Bards can select either one, regardless of whether they're in a City or a Commune.
I also just wanted to throw in my opinion that it'd be cool to be able to use two legs at the same time. Either by planting one hand, or by sacrificing both.
Edit: This is what I picture in my head.
Unknown2007-05-16 23:13:15
QUOTE(Shorlen @ May 16 2007, 05:10 PM) 408774
Or more simply, things that would be a bit too powerful if you could do two at once. Sleep, for instance.
IDEA: You cannot attack the same person with both legs. You can however, attack person A with your left leg, person B with your right leg.
Shorlen2007-05-16 23:18:43
QUOTE(Greleag @ May 16 2007, 07:13 PM) 408785
IDEA: You cannot attack the same person with both legs. You can however, attack person A with your left leg, person B with your right leg.
Maybe, but I have a feeling you're going to be using the Kata forms far more often than normal combos, and they require you to only attack a single target.
Unknown2007-05-16 23:25:12
Basic questions - I hope they're easy enough to answer, and not horribly secret. I'd probably figure this out on my own with my mind working at full mental capacity, but it's 1 AM here...
1. Can monks parry attacks? Can monks' attacks be parried/rebounded?
I am aware that everyone can parry thanks to Combat training, what I mean here is do they need to learn that, or do they have a guild skill allowing them to parry with their guild weapons/unarmed.
2. Are kata forms custom? (as in, you pick which hits go in a kata you create) I'm almost sure yes here, please confirm though.
3. What are the disadvantages of using forms when compared to freeform hits, in one-on-one combat? From what was written, I see only that you can't change the target (doesn't matter in a duel), and that you have to perform two or more forms in a row, which doesn't really matter because, first, there is no way for the enemy to predict which form you're using next (or is it?) and second, if there are no other disadvantages then the monk's going to use forms only anyway.
1. Can monks parry attacks? Can monks' attacks be parried/rebounded?
I am aware that everyone can parry thanks to Combat training, what I mean here is do they need to learn that, or do they have a guild skill allowing them to parry with their guild weapons/unarmed.
2. Are kata forms custom? (as in, you pick which hits go in a kata you create) I'm almost sure yes here, please confirm though.
3. What are the disadvantages of using forms when compared to freeform hits, in one-on-one combat? From what was written, I see only that you can't change the target (doesn't matter in a duel), and that you have to perform two or more forms in a row, which doesn't really matter because, first, there is no way for the enemy to predict which form you're using next (or is it?) and second, if there are no other disadvantages then the monk's going to use forms only anyway.
Unknown2007-05-16 23:25:17
Monks should be Low Magic. The skill fits with finding your Inner Chi, I can't seem them using High Magic.
Furien2007-05-16 23:30:56
Uh, lesse if I can answer stuff.
Using a combo outside of Forms will have a limb balance penalty as you use them, from what I understand.
IN forms (I'm not sure if they're preset attacks or multi/one targetted), you'll avoid that balance penalty because you're flowing a lot smoother between attacks. And the forms have imbued effects.
I'd assume that monks will get a Weaponparry skill somewhere in Kata.
Psychometabolism IS channel based. From the skillset Estarra showed us, many of the skills involve locking Id channel for passive effects like regeneration.
(There's also a cool Aging skill to make yourself appear older. And displacing your body rooms away. Sweet.)
Using a combo outside of Forms will have a limb balance penalty as you use them, from what I understand.
IN forms (I'm not sure if they're preset attacks or multi/one targetted), you'll avoid that balance penalty because you're flowing a lot smoother between attacks. And the forms have imbued effects.
I'd assume that monks will get a Weaponparry skill somewhere in Kata.
Psychometabolism IS channel based. From the skillset Estarra showed us, many of the skills involve locking Id channel for passive effects like regeneration.
(There's also a cool Aging skill to make yourself appear older. And displacing your body rooms away. Sweet.)
Unknown2007-05-16 23:32:18
QUOTE(Phred @ May 16 2007, 04:25 PM) 408790
Monks should be Low Magic. The skill fits with finding your Inner Chi, I can't seem them using High Magic.
QFT
Arix2007-05-16 23:32:22
so, the monks will have the Abundant Step feat?
Unknown2007-05-16 23:35:12
QUOTE(Arix @ May 16 2007, 06:32 PM) 408794
so, the monks will have the Abundant Step feat?
Lol Shadowdance Flight
EDIT: If they gain abundant step can they also have Empty Body?
LOL Ghost?