Monk Skills

by Shiri

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2007-05-16 23:47:40
QUOTE(Corinthian @ May 16 2007, 04:35 PM) 408798
Lol Shadowdance Flight
EDIT: If they gain abundant step can they also have Empty Body?

LOL Ghost?


Diamond soul, pls. I want spell resist +2 per level.

Okay, backtopic.gif
Unknown2007-05-17 00:15:28
Have weapon spec. been decided yet?

If not, I'd like to reinforce the idea of kusari-gama for Glooms.
Unknown2007-05-17 00:19:21
Maybe Monk manevers should be like the Anime and have to say their attack, similar to bards but a bit short.

Flying Lizard Kick
Hopping Horny Half-Kick
Tri-Tap Attack
Whack Ya Upside the Head

Furien2007-05-17 00:23:06
The only decided one is two Deerhorn Knives for the Seren guild. Google the stuff- they look awesome. biggrin.gif
Okin2007-05-17 00:25:46
QUOTE(Wesmin @ May 17 2007, 05:21 AM) 408688
Syntax: RESIST PAIN
Constantly subject yourself to pain and reap the benefits of a higher state of mind. This enables you to...

Essentially this skill ticks HEALTH while it is active similar to how other skills tick mana. The Health damage inflicted is psychic (you are forcing the pain on yourself via your mental state) so having a racial psychic resistance would reduce the amount it ticks. Psychic damage reduction skills would affect it as well.

(Ugh, after ages of trying to come up with a benefit, I can't, but seriously, you could pair something really good with a skill that has a downside like this. Someone help me out. pray.gif )


Have it tick health not insignificantly, and endurance heavily, but make you immune to mana-attacks. Or like, 50-75% reduction, whatever works.
Vix2007-05-17 00:27:16
QUOTE(Furien @ May 16 2007, 07:23 PM) 408809
The only decided one is two Deerhorn Knives for the Seren guild. Google the stuff- they look awesome. biggrin.gif

Whoa, they do! spoton.gif The whole deer connection is nice too. smile.gif
Vaerhon2007-05-17 00:28:03
QUOTE(Verithrax @ May 16 2007, 08:29 PM) 408733
Thing about forms:

How do they segue into each other? Do you choose previously which form you're going to do after the one you're doing now? Is that implemented yet?

It would be nice if instead, you could flow into another form according to some simple rules. For example:

1) If a form ends in an arm move, you can't use that arm to start the next form.
2) If a form ends in a leg move, you can't use that leg in the next form at all.

This is more interesting if you have assymetrical skills and weapons - skills that work only on the left hand, or on the right hand, or on the leg. Which is why glaives and kusari-gama are interesting - with a glaive, for example, your right hand does all the bladed moves (Slashes, thrusts, etc.) and your left hand does all the moves with the bottom of the weapon (So you could slash someone with the right and trip someone with the left, but not vice-versa). With a glaive your right hand uses the sickle while your left hand uses the chain, etc, which gives another layer of strategy and fluidity to monk combat. Performing certain moves in certain orders should be naturally advantageous; for example, you could have a "pull close" move with the chain of a kusari-gama that increases your precision for the next attack, or you can have an attack with the foot that works better on prone opponents (Making tripping them a natural preceding move).

You'd be able to break those rules (Say, do a form that ends with the left hand and then do a form that starts with the left hand) but you wouldn't get the speed bonus.


This is the kind of thing I was hoping to get at it with the idea of flowing between certain stances. You end up with a grammar of moves, and you can step outside it... but only at the expense of a balance penalty, as you opted not to use any of the options naturally flowing from your present stance, so you have to deliberately shift stances first.

Ideally, the stance descriptions and move options fit together naturally, as Verithrax's left-hand / right-hand example. One stance could have your left foot and hand advanced, making it suitable for a lunge with the glaive or a sweeping strike at the knee with the butt. The other could have your right foot advanced, allowing a quick jab to the solar plexus or quick ankle trip with the butt, or a spinning slash with the blade.
Roark2007-05-17 00:40:52
Some corrections:

The current plan is that a foot stays on the ground, not "a limb". Note that nothing is 100% set in stone. Versions of Kata have been discussed with 4 balances, for example (though it's quite unlikely that will happen). I also have focused most of my attention on Kata alone, not how Kata can be modified by other skillsets. What has been described for Kata is how it is currently envisioned in a vacuum by itself.

(Quote) "Apparently forms will be imbuable with afflictions though."

Not exactly. There are modifications you can do to forms. Some can cause afflictions, others may not.
Unknown2007-05-17 00:49:18
What's the chance of monk spades being a weapon?
Yrael2007-05-17 01:00:12
Spades? Shovel-fu?
Unknown2007-05-17 01:10:41
this
Like this. head removing shovels freaked.gif
Furien2007-05-17 01:14:07
The Committee pointed out that monks would be terrible in choke, so I proposed an Idea.

Hasteform/Flurryform.

It's basically a combo of three hits, but all in one action. However, the cost to such wild and quick attacks is that their overall effectiveness is reduced- IE, less damage, wounding, poison rate. Actually, there'd only be one poison affliction at all, given it's considered a single action.
Roark2007-05-17 02:04:31
QUOTE(Genos @ May 16 2007, 05:58 PM) 408771
I wish they would reconsider the idea of having one punch and two kicks while keeping one hand planted on the ground.

No one ever said it is out of the question. Don't read too much into statements about how it works. Just because the basic design says things work one way does not automatically mean no skill could modify that behaviour. (Sort of like Magic: the Gathering; any card in that game can change any rule a player may have thought was set in stone.) I'm not saying we will do the above; the idea honestly was never even thought of and now everyone is going off about how we've ruled it out completely. The closest we came to something like this in initial private design was a proposal for 4 limb balances where you would go prone for lifting up your last leg in your final attack. One point of making this more public in advance is to get input for ideas we would never think of on our own. Now that it's been suggested, we can consider it.

Peronally I think it's cool, but I will need to see what others think and weigh in its impact. Honestly it would probably suck for PK purposes, though, since most attacks will be based on your arms: you can just do more things with hands than toes, especially when those hands hold large nasty weapons. So reducing hand attacks for more foot attacks would probably be usable more for RP or amusement than for fighting power.
Ildaudid2007-05-17 02:14:12
Roark;

Concerning stances and flowing.... are monks going to be kind of like a idras/monk hybrid, where you flow from stance to stance in attempt to use attacks or more of a straight up monk stance.. i.e. "Ox Stance - When in this stance you are more grounded, resisting more to beckons, proning etc. Your punches do more damage/wounding but due to being in this stance kick wounding/damage is reduced." ??

Secondly, about Kata: Will Kata be a mix of attacks, stances and defensive skills rolled into the whole skillset? Kind of like combining your basic monk attacks along with things like surge, weathering, limber, flexibility? Then each guild specialization of Katas will have the guild spec attacks?
Damadreas2007-05-17 02:42:42

Though sacrificing an arm balance or even two arm balances for use of leg balance may seem less usable in the idea that your legs aren't wielding weapons. And that your not poisoning them with your weapons and even perhaps losing damage from not using a weapon. But I think writing it off as ineffectual due to that is very much thinking too far inside the box. You could sacrifice armbalances to use the legs for more specialized attacks within a form/kata. Along the lines of using the legs to hook an opponents neck and take them down with it, leaving them in a prone position with you standing overhead. It's also more likely to cause concussion or stunning affects through the blunt impacts of kicking motions then it is slicing someone with deerhorn knives, just for arguments sake.

Using both leg balances all the time would of course be ineffectual and just pointless. But if they're used with skills that of a more specific specialized nature you can have the best of both worlds. They're monks after all.. their zomgwtfbbqlolipwnn00bz moves definitely would have more flair if you can frontflip over their head to snap their neck in a deathblow using both legs before tumbling to a crouch behind them with your knife plunged into the base of their spine. biggrin.gif


Kind of rambling I suppose. I think really, the nature of using leg balances and such is more dependant on weapons used. Some moves with such ability throughout all monks, but obviously a staff leads itself to such maneuvers better then knives etc.
Vaerhon2007-05-17 04:20:54
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ May 17 2007, 02:14 AM) 408845
Roark;

Concerning stances and flowing.... are monks going to be kind of like a idras/monk hybrid, where you flow from stance to stance in attempt to use attacks or more of a straight up monk stance.. i.e. "Ox Stance - When in this stance you are more grounded, resisting more to beckons, proning etc. Your punches do more damage/wounding but due to being in this stance kick wounding/damage is reduced." ??

Secondly, about Kata: Will Kata be a mix of attacks, stances and defensive skills rolled into the whole skillset? Kind of like combining your basic monk attacks along with things like surge, weathering, limber, flexibility? Then each guild specialization of Katas will have the guild spec attacks?


On the first, why not hope for both stance benefits and flowing? You flow among stances with different benefits. This helps keep lower level attacks useful - they might have less tightly constrained stance options, and so be used to do quick transitions between heavier attacks, or to close a combo in order to end up in a specific stance. You would have to choose between ending in Ox stance (less risk of being beckoned between combos) and ending in Cat stance (better dodging) or Salamander stance (better regeneration). Add to that the consideration that Ox stance means more damage for a combo-ending punch while Cat means more bleeding for a combo-ending slash, or similar, and you would have a very rich and flexible grammar of combat.

On the RP front, I hope that it is necessary to practice katas to get the full benefit. Not too much - just enough for flavor.

On the second, I would expect that limber and elasticity are staying in acrobatics, as a monk secondary option. Monks may well not get surge and weathering at all.

If the Tosha monastery animal imagery is being integrated, there are three clear analogies.

Shark - Celest - awareness.
Spider - Glomdoring - fear.
Rockeater - Magnagora - form.

and I suppose that means

Roc - Serenwilde - ?
Xenthos2007-05-17 04:22:31
QUOTE(Vaerhon @ May 17 2007, 12:20 AM) 408880
Roc - Serenwilde - ?

Freedom!

To fly away and soar without a care in the world.

Except their next meal.

Which will probably kill them.

(Those rocs sure are silly creatures)
Unknown2007-05-17 04:34:39
On the topic of practicing katas, I just want to say that I'm torn. It has a nice flavour to have to demonstrate a certain kata to someone higher than you so they can bestow the next belt, but on the other hand, it is also incredibly annoying to have to do it.

I think I wouldn't mind the idea of requiring that a kata be practiced (but please, not more than once or twice) but make it so you can demonstrate to the guild tutor.
Shiri2007-05-17 04:36:11
Monk practicing was a huge pain in the arse. Let's not. If it has to be done, go with requiem there.
Furien2007-05-17 04:55:41
I dunno how much we're allowed to say, but to put it lightly, the Communes specs will be based on their Astral Sphere. Cities will be working with something different- we don't know what, yet.