Here it is!



Notice damage ranged from 120-213 or so.. with very tiny bleeding.. also something not shown in this is that it was attacking from 5-16 seconds. I could not predict when it would hit.. and yes I was out reggening it. On at least one hit my regen hit at the same time and I gained health.

This costs 5 power... and as you saw.. died in 3 hits.

The current idea is to change it to bleeding on 8 second timer (100 bleeding is considered at the moment) and changing to 2 power. Other idea is make it 0 power and leave it as is.

Thoughts and ideas from others? I like feedback.

EDIT: This shoulda been in combat logs actually...

Bleeding + aeon would be an interesting addition to Nihilist offense, if balanced right. Making spawn 0 power is the fastest and cheapest solution, but not as interesting.

What's redcap at right now? ~250+ bleeding per tick, ~12 seconds per tick? In that context, your proposed ~100 bleeding per 8 second tick doesn't seem too high. Roll it into the torture changes you were talking about earlier, go for bleeding with a segue into wrack.

If you make spawn useful, you can leave it at 5 power. People will be putting it up ahead of time, not mid-fight. If someone lets you work totally unhindered for three rounds just to kill your spawn, well... I would count that 5 power well spent.

I'd like something that wasn't balanced around a Nihilist having aeon for a change.

I do like the bleeding idea and if a Hexist can get a sleep lock started this could help damage kill in it (kinda like a redcap does) cept a hexist cant aeon. 5 power is alot for 100 bleeding even really. Redcap is like.. 1 and follows? Spawn hits the target and supposedly (never seen this happen) hits enemies if that person is gone.. it hasnt been noted as tracking however. Also all idea woudl give it crit immunity and maybe 1 or 2 more symbol hits to kill (4 staff hits is the target). But would you spend 5 power if the opponent can kill in quickly? say insta crit it to death? Heck if they couldnt crit and only needed 4 hits.. it would die before you got the power back.. and Nihilists already are power heavy as guardians tend to be.

Thanks for the input and I welcome more replies, and a reply from you again Vaerhon.
EDIT: I was writing while Yrael was posting.. Yrael is welcome to reply again too

I agree Yrael.. however when I try to balance things to non aeon it makes those that could aeon too strong rather often. I dont like that things seem to rather rely on aeon for us, but until someone comes up with a good way around it, it seems things will have to cater to it.

Perhaps just have it spit off a random power that was invested in your demon. AS in, the power is picked at random and done when the demon spawnis created. That'd be worth five power, especially if the spawn would follow you. And I meant something that doesn't interact with aeon perfectly, in terms of balance. Or even remove it and put in an apostate style ability, where it just dumps you in some infernal sanctuary.

If it followed aye, otherwise your target would move the whole one room to escape it then 5 is fine... otherwise would say 2 again or so... but yeah passive afflciting is nice but I think people dont like the idea of us getting more passive, but that might help with sleep locks.

Redcap bleeding is still insane, especially in choke. Even druid cudgel does less (fine that doesn't mean much as druid cudgel doesn't do much of -anything- but still.. )

Also, if the demon spawn gets made useful, you should consider restricting how many there can be, or how many can be raised at the same time by one nihilist. If Nihilists become good old Minionmasters with their own lil army..

EDIT: Just to clarify, do NOT compare with redcap bleeding. That is still way way way too much.

As a note if you try to make a new spawn for another person when your old one is there it just changes target and uses anohter 5 power. You cant make armies of em.

Make it follow the nihilist, cost 5 power still, and hit on an 8 second timer. Make it around 8 hits to kill and never shield. Seems rather fair to me, since it would be a bitch to get one (make it so it can't be from a friendly.. is that possible? Only castable on non-mag corpses, even though it hurts RP a little.) Ho hum, it should be cool and useful to have, but difficult to get.

@Yrael - Hexist gets sleeplock instead, I guess. And metawake + clotting = wrack.

@Malarious - DEFINITELY restrict how many can be raised. For whatever reasons, I thought you got one and only one at a time. Otherwise, given a lax power policy, why not raise a large army of the ones you have? 100 damage per spawn starts looking good after the first 3 dozen spawns summoned. Between that and RaiseDead, it would be worth it to burn the power just to march your seemingly-unstoppable army of hundreds and hundreds of loyals upon the gates of Celest.

Keep the power at 5 - you put it up ahead of time, fight with 10 on the prompt, and don't resummon midfight. If they waste 2-3 rounds killing it off, your 5 power bought you 2-3 totally unhindered rounds in which to kill, which seems a decent trade.

And just have the spawn follow the nihilist, like the demon. It's not nearly big enough to chase on its own.

@Shadow - What's a better comparison than redcap bleeding? The proposal is for something that is about 5/9 as much bleeding per second as redcap, but done with a smaller and faster tick than redcap uses.

I don't mind the bleeding he proposed. Just don't claim that 'Since it does less (or as much) bleeding than the redcap it's automatically fine'. Since the redcap ain't 'fine'.

redcap bleeding is 200 every 12 seconds

Is it affected by resilience? Because with Yrael's recent log, it looked more like ~250, and somewhat random. First bleed after a redcap is 230, and then he goes from 206 to 475 with a later one, and presumably there's some kingdom in there too.

I don't use kingdom/mercy/perfection, and have.. gifted resilience. Or master. Whichever is lower.

1) Shryke.. you are thinking raisedead... spawn doesnt need a corpse (and you wouldnt believe how many people mistake these two skills its just that rarely used).
2) Sleeplocks without aeon are nigh impossible.. they wake they will insomnia and kafe again.. that is 3 hits of sleep now needed.. without aeon you cant hold them well
3) 5 power to buy 12-16 seconds? and you get 1 power back in that? remember we are guardians we tend to use alot of power.
4) If it stayed at 5 pwoer it would need some ailments and I think people are anti passive ailments. I would be willing to up power cost if it followed (though then people will complain its another ent) since that would help bleed outs.
5) Most attacks on me dont actually stall me from attacking.. they may slow it a second at best.. but giving a couple rounds of unhindered attacks arent really worth it.

6) Most importantly.. we have momentum.. if we get nothing done at our peak then we are only going downhill.

Shyrke: Raisedead got a change too, should check it out, mobs don't track still, but depending on what level the dead person was, they have chances of giving some nice afflicts now. Raisedead has become alot more fun for usefulness while retaining the RP flavour of it.


Spawn, I have never really seen used much at all so I cannot comment much, probably a mild mild change and a slight drop in power would be all ya want. You don't wanna essentially turn it into a demon with a random passive attack that comes from one of the 3 you imbued on your demon, that may end up a little sketchy.

If that's all it does (and I'm just trusting you on this Mal) then it should at least cost less power.

@ Aesyra if you're crying about 200 bleeding every 12 seconds as a Demigod...

Come on, there's a limit to how biased you can be

Do you only raise the corpses of other people? Or can you raise the corpses of mobs too? Just out of curiosity.