If you don't have teleport, you shouldn't have to be in any particular hurry. If you're doing the Lusternian equivalent of corpse camping newbies, you're going to be hiding at your nexus for weeks.

Aetherplex would work.

The current concensus is that you -should- lose grace if you leave leave prime, or enter enemy territory.


Main points being the following:

-You should not be able to enter enemy territory with it
-You should not be able to leave prime with it (which you dont have reason to since you cant attack most things with it up)
-You shouldnt be able to use it to hide when you have a big mouth

Fix is therefore:

-Lose it if you leave prime
-Lose it if you enter enemy territory
-Make it last 5 minutes before leaving on its own accord

Is that right?

I don't like the idea of losing it if you leave prime.

Also, I would suggest that you are able to attack mobs if they attack you.

That's one of the main gripes, though.

Then make exceptions for the spirit plane and limbo, and divine havens and Aetherspace.

Loosing it when you enter enemy territory should be just fine for dealing with raids and stuff.

Why Limbo, Spiritplane and Aetherspace? O.o I mean, Limbo, that's like, the main fighting point sometimes, Spiritplane is just another bashingplace and Aetherspace...well, there are bubbles.

Those are places some people like to explore, and have no real reason to get jumped in, thus they deserve protection.

Also just in general, a geomancer should be able to go talk to the Earth lords while still young and graced.

No.

That does not seem to be the consensus at all.

I specifically stated that it should work off-Prime in own-org-controlled areas, and there were a few who agreed with that. You should be able to use it defensively. It should just not let you enter into enemy territory. Off-Prime doesn't matter if that's in place.

Why should you be able to use it defensively?

See: Serenwilde at the last weakening.

I think that kind of use for Grace is not only valid, but essential-- otherwise it is FAR too easy to completely lock up an entrance. Not that it isn't easy even with Grace existing.

I know Serenwilde was abusing it, and I know Glomdoring was abusing it the weakening before that (which probably prompted us to do so, but I wasn't there.) Neither use seems legitimate to me.

Is that not exactly what Grace was designed for? So you can be in your own territory without being harvested repeatedly by an opposing enemy force?

Calling using it for what it's intended for "abuse" is just a bit misleading.

Edit: Further, it's been used from the days of the very first weakening. The Weakening where the Moon Altar died? Tael used Grace to get into the Altar. Otherwise, Serenwilde wouldn't have even had an operator at all. Thus: essential.

I forget to reject Grace often. I've gone Graced for in-game months until someone tries to perform something deemed an agressive action while roleplaying. Then they had to stop and remind me in tells.
It would be useful to have an auto-reject Grace option to turn on and off.

It doesn't matter if who's territory it is, really. You shouldn't be graced in a battle; if you are not there to abuse grace, you should GTFO, because all you can really do is be an asshole to people or aide your team while invincible, which really isn't the point of grace.

Grace WAS, in other IRE games, so no one could do things like rezzkill you or farm you in your own territory.

In this game that function is served by Avechna. In areas where Avechna doesn't give a damn it makes no sense for grace to apply either. If you want the nexus worlds to have Avenger protection, that's a different suggestion entirely.

It's not what it was intended for, and it shouldn't be able to be used that way, so it's abuse.

EDIT: Sylphas said it pretty well.

@Xenthos

Didn't they put in a construct-teleport, so that operators could reach their constructs without grace?

It teleports you just *outside* the Construct-- so nope. At least, not if the people set up have any clue what they're doing and are waiting for that sort of thing.

Further-- why does it "not make sense for Grace to apply where Avechna doesn't give a damn"? Grace is not tied to Avechna at all. Grace is Divine Grace, not Avechna's Grace. It gives protection after a death, any death. Grace is meant to make you 'invincible' for a short period after death. The only change necessary is that it should not be able to make you invincible in enemy territory-- and there are other ways of dealing with someone who is graced (telekinetic barrier, for example, though if outdoors and the person can fly there is a way around it, it still can trap quite a few).

Further-- Tael using grace to get into a Construct in order to defend it is not abuse. Thus, he was not there to abuse it, thus, he does not have to GTFO, by Sylphas' logic. I further do not see this sort of defensive use of Grace as abuse. Period. It seems exactly what it is intended for here.

I've had it happen too often that certain people died, conglutinted and ran right back into our group, sitting there in grace and tossing out (hidden) insults, running as soon as grace was about to drop. That's not only bad RP (despite what those people like to claim) it's also totally unnecessary.

I do think Grace has it's uses though. Assume someone raids the prime territory of our org. Grace after city conglut would ensure you don't die immediately again if those people camp at the nexus. Or it would allow you to summon guards.

Personally I'd say Grace should drop immediately if you leave your orgs territory, whether that is prime or not, whether you go into enemy or neutral territory. Grace from praying should drop after the normal time or as soon as you're back in your orgs territory.

You don't NEED grace to ensure you don't die immediately. Avechna already fills that purpose.

EDIT: Didn't see Xenthos' post before. You seem to have entirely ignored my point; grace is redundant here because we have Avechna. Other games, which grace is a leftover from, don't have Avechna. Therefore grace is necessary there. It is strictly unnecessary here.