STOP DERAILING THREAD PLEASE. Shamarh, need owl.

Synecdoche

Hmm. Maybe. But it's an interesting position to take.

The Primal Gods are the Gods that were made before Dynara started making souls on perpose. The ones that didn't get a soul became Souless, the ones that got a soul by accident became like Keph and Dracnoris.

I always assumed it was something like this:

Dynara created a God.

Dynara didn't like the God for some reason.

Dynara threw it to Magnora, which made it end up becoming a Soulless.

I though that Dynara created a god, it was incompleate or soulless, so she threw it Magnora

Not really. She threw the God to Magnora because she didn't like it... but she didn't like it cause it had no soul. See, Dynara created life, but she didn't know how to make anything with souls, so she tossed these souless creations to her sister to eat, but her sister kept them as pets cause she was pissed she couldn't create anything herself.

Then Yudhe's son taught Dynara how to make things with souls and they made lots of different ones. But Magnora got even more pissed cause not only was Dynara able to make things, but she and the nameless son were having all sorts of fun without her playing with their souled creations. So, she decided she and her pets would eat them all.



But Dynara and the nameless son hid their favorites away and so Magnora decided the best way to get even would be to eat the nameless son. Let's see Dynara have her fun then!

But you can't just eat 1/3 of an interlocking set that makes up the ultimate creator - Yudhe. However, the nameless son got lost and that was just as bad. So Magnora and Dynara set their differences aside and went a lookin.

Primal god != Soulless god

"Upon the worlds and planes that Dynara created, she also created life. Her first attempts to create life were monstrous abominations without a soul or spirit. Though at first she considered them to be her greatest triumphs, she came to view them as her greatest failures. They came to be called the Primal Gods or First Ones, also known as the Soulless Gods."

This makes me think that a Primal God is just a shape, not a categorization. Virtually all the Primal Gods did not have souls, and were thus Soulless. Those that had souls were still Primal in shape, but were associated with the ensouled Elders, primarily Star Gods in shape.

To be fair. He said Primal God does not equal soulless. Not soulless does not equal primal god. Synecdoche

Yes we do!

You sure are making verbose posts today!

So all soulless are Primal Gods but not all Primal Gods are soulless?

Why not? There's nothing in the histories that I've read that said that Dynara and the nameless son switched to the 'Star God' model immediately after they started making things with souls. Only makes sense some of their soul-ful creations would be in the original Primal variety for a while as well.

Yes I am!

Are you high?

That is my - eminently qualified - interpretation of the histories.

I suspect his zen-like posts are either some attempt at sarcasm against the forums and/or its moderators/participants, or meta-gaming the moderation/warning process to prevent a perma-ban.

Anyway, I think there's some twist to the whole Soulless process. I have a feeling as the histories are released they'll be some surprise that will shake the foundation of what we call Soulless. I've noticed the tragic nature of those creatures. I wonder if they'll be seen as more sympathetic in the future.

At least as "sympathetic" as a Lovecraft-based creature can be. There was some arrogance of Dynara for creative a form of life and then "chucking it away". I also think the nature of the Illithoid race changes some perspectives of what "having a soul" really means. It's all part of the larger story that may or may not be revealed to us, although perhaps in 2010 we'll have a better idea.

You sure are clever!